Marvel speed vs DC speed

Started by Philosophía24 pages
Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

Originally posted by marwash22
to a degree, yes!

Obviously, if you're able to hit someone with FTL capabilities, you yourself have a degree of superspeed. But using my bullet dodging example... superspeed isn't required. Basically, you don't need to have equal speed to hit someone, that's where reflexes come into play.

Cass Cain's reflexes are better than Wally's if you take away his speed.

To what degree? What does having "reflexes to deal with FTL characters" imply to you? Being able to think, react and implement an action to counter said character, no? Then say, how is this any different than saying that character has superspeed?

Parmaniac Evincar of KMC

Originally posted by -Pr-
Nice of you to show your bias so openly.
Originally posted by Parmaniac
And yes DC Characters vastly > Marvel characters in speed.
That's why I think the effect on DC is much heavier

Sure

Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, but not entirely. We've seen Thanos react before to someone who vastly outclasses him in speed yet Thanos can't replicate that said character's speed. ?
So if say Superman is trying to blitz him at FTL speeds, but Thanos percieves, reacts and physically acts to counter Superman, it doesn't show that Thanos has superspeed, but just amazing reflexes (that are totally independent of speed!)?

How do you define superspeed if not the ability to percieve, react and move at superhuman speeds? "To me superspeed is like running up a mountain in like less than heartbeat."?

-Pr- Hey Yo!
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Sure

shrug

you're the one who said it was DC's problem, when it's been a factor in comics for years in most companies.

leonidas MWHAHAHAHA!
Originally posted by Galan007
However, that is not to say Thor would be incapable of beating said speedster through other means. The speedsters are uber, but they aren't unbeatable.

that's the thing--in threads it doesn't get past that. thor is ko'd in the first nano-second. as is any marvel guy. supes can do the same. to any marvel guys. even glads, mak, hell even runner's feats are nothing to flash. and those are the VERY best speedsters. therefore, it follows that speedsters will win. based on feats, they win EVERY time. if that's the case, so be it. hell, i love superman AND flash. it just seems awfully simplistic and seems to go against the nature of the characters, at times.

Allankles Kwisatz Haderach

Originally posted by marwash22
to a degree, yes!

Obviously, if you're able to hit someone with FTL capabilities, you yourself have a degree of superspeed. But using my bullet dodging example... superspeed isn't required. Basically, you don't need to have equal speed to hit someone, that's where reflexes come into play.

Cass Cain's reflexes are better than Wally's if you take away his speed. You agree that Cass doesn't have superspeed, don't you?

Having FTL capabilities doesn't mean you're using super speed in combat. For example, if Thanos whoops Surfer h2h it doesn't necessarily demonstrate (by that example alone) that Thanos has super speed, unless Surfer was shown using some speed himself in said encounter.

I get what you're saying about reflexes but a faster guy will have better reflexes than the slower guy regardless. Take for example two street levelers like Ozymidias and Bruce Wayne. Not counting skill, the two guys are on the same level physically but Ozy has much more acute reflexes, he's faster than Bruce.

You can't be slower and then have better reflexes, what you're talking about is skill based, and has something to do with timing.

For instance skill might mean Thanos has better defensive instincts than Surfer, but if Surfer is truly the quicker guy his reflexes are better. The difference is that guys like Supes and Flash have the instincts to use their superior reflexes effectively.

Dum Dum Dugan Senior Member

Re: Re: Marvel speed vs DC speed

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
This is very interesting. If it is different does that also mean the level of control over it is different as well? That may explain why the flashes have been tagged by everyone in there mother. That because there speed operates on completely DC made "speed force". That there reaction time is completly reliant on the amount of speed force they are utilizing at any given time . Which could explain the great desperatee between showings.

so umm is this just completely off?

marwash22 HELL YEAH.

Originally posted by Philosophía
To what degree? What does having "reflexes to deal with FTL characters" imply to you? Being able to think, react and implement an action to counter said character, no? Then say, how is this any different than saying that character has superspeed?
are you trolling me? i honestly can't tell if you're being serious.

Simple: Wonder Woman aint on Wally's level... Wonder Woman has tagged Wally... this means Wondy has exceptional reflexes, but not equal speed.

Originally posted by Allankles
Having FTL capabilities doesn't mean you're using super speed in combat. For example, if Thanos whoops Surfer h2h it doesn't necessarily demonstrate (by that example alone) that Thanos has super speed, unless Surfer was shown using some speed himself in said encounter.

I get what you're saying about reflexes but a faster guy will have better reflexes than the slower guy regardless. Take for example two street levelers like Ozymidias and Bruce Wayne. Not counting skill, the two guys are on the same level physically but Ozy has much more acute reflexes, he's faster than Bruce.

You can't be slower and then have better reflexes, what you're talking about is skill based, and has something to do with timing.

then how do you explain anyone ever hitting Wally? PIS?

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by Philosophía
So if say Superman is trying to blitz him at FTL speeds, but Thanos percieves, reacts and physically acts to counter Superman, it doesn't show that Thanos has superspeed, but just amazing reflexes (that are totally independent of speed!)?
Thanos reacting isn't judo chopping his adam's apple or nerve punching him it's him raising his hands to stop said blitz. I don't think Thanos is going to counter a speedster move for move only be able to stop the attack before it hits him or shortly after.

He's already shown the reflexes to stop the fallen one's advances and actively hold back and purposely not kill him. Thanos has never been shown to possess anywhere near fallen one superspeed though so yes he has the reflexes and the senses to do so not the raw speed.

Parmaniac Evincar of KMC

Originally posted by -Pr-
shrug

you're the one who said it was DC's problem, when it's been a factor in comics for years in most companies.

My point is like most people here say in Marvel it SEEMS they try to make it more realistic and don't use speed so much, so by speed feats DC >>>>>> Marvel (andprobably all other publishers) and therefore to compensate this probem you get heavier PIS/CIS.

Yes I like Marvel more but DC has better feats imo (not only speed whole DC earth seems on an average be higher than Marvel, so many Lanterns, Kryptonians etc.) that's why I think DC without PIS/CIS would be more ****ed because of bigger gaps (between slow and fast characters) than Marvel would be.

Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

That's why we're not CBR. Characters don't knock eachother out in nanoseconds. And CIS still applies.

If Marvel fans would finally accept that the likes of Flash/Superman do indeed have the speed to take care of fights against the likes of Thor/Surfer and Thanos before they can react, the debates would be a lot more interesting.

leonidas MWHAHAHAHA!

Originally posted by -Pr-

what do you suggest, then?

frankly, i'm not sure. how does one compare an apple and an orange? kinda why i brought it up, see if anyone had any ideas or opinions. i could simply be way off, and maybe there is NO solution. just thought we kicked off a decent discussion that was worth bringing to the attention of others.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by leonidas
that's the thing--in threads it doesn't get past that. thor is ko'd in the first nano-second. as is any marvel guy. supes can do the same. to any marvel guys. even glads, mak, hell even runner's feats are nothing to flash. and those are the VERY best speedsters. therefore, it follows that speedsters will win. based on feats, they win EVERY time. if that's the case, so be it. hell, i love superman AND flash. it just seems awfully simplistic and seems to go against the nature of the characters, at times.
You have to take the blitzee's damage soak into consideration. For instance, I don't see someone with Superman-level durability being nigh-instantly KO'd by a Flash-blitz. If a character is capable of weathering the initial onslaught, and countering with something of their own, then said character -always- has a shot of beating the speedsters.

Dum Dum Dugan Senior Member

Originally posted by Philosophía
That's why we're not CBR. Characters don't knock eachother out in nanoseconds. And CIS still applies.

If Marvel fans would finally accept that the likes of Flash/Superman do indeed have the speed to take care of fights against the likes of Thor/Surfer and Thanos before they can react, the debates would be a lot more interesting.


I agree with Thor and Thanos, but Surfer? He has a lot of speed feats. I say his speed is near if not on the level of superman.

Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos reacting isn't judo chopping his adam's apple or nerve punching him it's him raising his hands to stop said blitz.
So physically moving his body, after percieving and reacting to a FTL opponent. Would you say that's not superspeed? Does Thanos need to run some "heartbeat laps" around the world for you to think he has superspeed?

Omega Vision Face Flowed Into Her Eyes
Originally posted by leonidas
frankly, i'm not sure. how does one compare an apple and an orange? kinda why i brought it up, see if anyone had any ideas or opinions. i could simply be way off, and maybe there is NO solution. just thought we kicked off a decent discussion that was worth bringing to the attention of others.

How about this:

Speedsters like Superman, Flash, and Wonder Woman DO have superior combat speed to the likes of Thanos, Surfer, and Thor and it WOULD be a big factor in a fight, but not necessarily an insurmountable advantage? shrug

KuRuPT Thanosi Senior Member

Originally posted by Philosophía
So if say Superman is trying to blitz him at FTL speeds, but Thanos percieves, reacts and physically acts to counter Superman, it doesn't show that Thanos has superspeed, but just amazing reflexes (that are totally independent of speed!)?

How do you define superspeed if not the ability to percieve, react and move at superhuman speeds? "To me superspeed is like running up a mountain in like less than heartbeat."?

Jesus Christ Philo is this really that hard... Let's take the 100 yard dash... are you saying that everyone reacts to the gun at the exact same time with the exact same reaction speed? Or do they react differently? Just because someone reacts the fastest and gets off the line fastest doesn't mean he will win the race, In fact, it's usually the opposite. The person winning the race has the higher end speed (top speed) but not the fastest reaction time. The quick reaction time allows certain people to make the final and compete but they lack they higher end speed to win. It's really that simple. Now in a comic book format.. those reflexes that allowed the sprinter to compete now alows them to tag an opponent and possible can an advatage doing so. I'm not sure how you're saying they are exactly the same thing when clearly, even in real life, they are not.

leonidas MWHAHAHAHA!
Originally posted by marwash22
then how do you explain anyone ever hitting Wally? PIS?

that's really the only answer anyone has and it really doesn't sit well with me, and never has. but, what else is there? 😬

marwash22 HELL YEAH.

To be clear, I'm not saying the slower character has "better reflexes", I'm saying the slower character's reflexes is what allows him/her to contend with the faster character. make sense?

Originally posted by leonidas
that's really the only answer anyone has and it really doesn't sit well with me, and never has. but, what else is there? 😬
reflexes. 😂

Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

Originally posted by Omega Vision
How about this:

Speedsters like Superman, Flash, and Wonder Woman DO have superior combat speed to the likes of Thanos, Surfer, and Thor and it WOULD be a big factor in a fight, but not necessarily an insurmountable advantage? shrug

Why wouldn't it be? Because they're not close in speed.