Originally posted by Simboncause there would be no story if FTL characters lived up to what they were capable of.
How fast is Despero? He destroyed a team of FTL characters, so if he were to fight a Marvel character, would we say that he is so fast that the marvel character won't respond? If he isn't that fast, why did the team let him win?
Originally posted by Galan007
Or better yet, try wrapping your head around the guys who operate by the attosecond, and can spend a relative billions of years in a second.It's just unreal.
but therein lies a bit of a problem--marvel guys can perceive ftl just like dc guys. thor travels at multiples of c. he doesn't run into things, he stops when he needs to. iow, he can perceive things moving at that speed. ss obviously can as well. the weird thing is that if thor can perceive things while he's moving at ftl speeds, then it must follow that he sees HIMSELF moving awfully slowly..... one of the big issues is always perceptual speeds/processing speeds vs reaction speed vs movement speed, and how much one can be used to indicate another. how much cross-over do you think there is? can one be used to help indicate the others?
I love Marvel comics more than anything. I barely read Dc and have about 500 books to my 5000 marvel books.
DC characters are faster and stronger. They are written that way by DC. That dosent mean they are better though. Marvel sales better because the characters are more believable. In reality the hulk should never be able to beat superman because of his speed. Sorry to my marvel family, but thats just the way it is.
Marvel pushes for realism thats why they use real cities and speeds that are imaginable. They have guys moving stuff around that we can imagine. DC has characters pulling solar systems around...and that turns me off to them.
Everyone in DC is so F'n fast that its not even fun to read. Speed is treated as an after thought in Marvel and I love that. The characters get down and dirty with each other and dont just try to see who can knock out who the fastest like in DC. Speed in Dc is used as an excuse. Fight like a man like they do in Marvel!!
Originally posted by leonidas
that is certainly the logical end. what i'm saying is, if marvel, as a whole, doesn't portray characters at such speeds, and therefore equal feats do not exist, do we simply default to the assumption that said marvel characters are NECESSARILY slower?
Yes, we do.
I don't really have a preference towards either company overall so it doesn't bother me to have to say this.
Originally posted by Simbon
So are you saying that, because all of the lower speed feats are PIS, that when it comes to speed, only high-end feats are taken into consideration?
of course not. all i'm saying is that unless it's an actual character flaw (like it is for superman), then it's fair to say that wally isn't going to get hit by anyone that doesn't have reasonably good speed.
it's the full capacity rule.
Originally posted by leonidas
but therein lies a bit of a problem--marvel guys can perceive ftl just like dc guys. thor travels at multiples of c. he doesn't run into things, he stops when he needs to. iow, he can perceive things moving at that speed. ss obviously can as well. the weird thing is that if thor can perceive things while he's moving at ftl speeds, then it must follow that he sees HIMSELF moving awfully slowly..... one of the big issues is always perceptual speeds/processing speeds vs reaction speed vs movement speed, and how much one can be used to indicate another. how much cross-over do you think there is? can one be used to help indicate the others?
The thing is, space is a very big place.
In space, lightspeed itself is not impressive. Hell it takes 30+ minutes or so for light to travel from Jupiter to here.
Surfer himself enters hyperspace or some other sort of plot device for his best speeds, its more akin to teleportation than anything else, he uses it for going from point A to B, not for nimble aerial dog fights.
Humans can fire ahead of their tunnel vision when they fly in supersonic jets. Does not mean their reactions are supersonic. That is essentially what we are dealing with with these FTL flying speeds in space.
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
I love Marvel comics more than anything. I barely read Dc and have about 500 books to my 5000 marvel books.DC characters are faster and stronger. They are written that way by DC. That dosent mean they are better though. Marvel sales better because the characters are more believable. In reality the hulk should never be able to beat superman because of his speed. Sorry to my marvel family, but thats just the way it is.
Marvel pushes for realism thats why they use real cities and speeds that are imaginable. They have guys moving stuff around that we can imagine. DC has characters pulling solar systems around...and that turns me off to them.
Everyone in DC is so F'n fast that its not even fun to read. Speed is treated as an after thought in Marvel and I love that. The characters get down and dirty with each other and dont just try to see who can knock out who the fastest like in DC. Speed in Dc is used as an excuse. Fight like a man like they do in Marvel!!
No offense, but I always thought that the whole MU being more realistic/believable is BS. Marvel has a crap load of powerful beings as well. Quicksilver can go light speed, the mutants can hang with cosmic beings, Thor and MU gods/cosmics. Overall, MU is just as powerful as DC, IMO. If I had to lean a certain way, I think DC has more powerful beings, because there are a crap load of Greenn Lanterns, a crap load of Kryptonians, a crap load of mages, a crap load of speedsters, etc...
If people mean more realistic as in being "more street level heroes that are more vulnerable" then sure, I could see that.
If they mean realistic as in "relatable, realistic problems and issues that characters have to deal with", then no, I don't at all.
Even Superman has shit in his life that I can relate to.
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
I love Marvel comics more than anything. I barely read Dc and have about 500 books to my 5000 marvel books.DC characters are faster and stronger. They are written that way by DC. That dosent mean they are better though. Marvel sales better because the characters are more believable. In reality the hulk should never be able to beat superman because of his speed. Sorry to my marvel family, but thats just the way it is.
Marvel pushes for realism thats why they use real cities and speeds that are imaginable. They have guys moving stuff around that we can imagine. DC has characters pulling solar systems around...and that turns me off to them.
Everyone in DC is so F'n fast that its not even fun to read. Speed is treated as an after thought in Marvel and I love that. The characters get down and dirty with each other and dont just try to see who can knock out who the fastest like in DC. Speed in Dc is used as an excuse. Fight like a man like they do in Marvel!!
I completely agree with this post.
Re: Marvel speed vs DC speed
Originally posted by leonidasYes they can.
so, can marvel compete with the dc speedsters??
Speed isn't a big deal in comics like people make it out to be.... It just seem like people latch onto "My character can move at 1000000000 times light speed and will K.O everyone in nano seconds."
When a character is not portrayed that was for 99% of time. Not everything can be PIS...
Out of all the power set speed seems to be the end all of everything which is hardly the case.
Re: Re: Marvel speed vs DC speed
Originally posted by kgkg
Yes they can.Speed isn't a big deal in comics like people make it out to be.... It just seem like people latch onto "My character can move at 1000000000 times light speed and will K.O everyone in nano seconds."
When a character is not portrayed that was for 99% of time. Not everything can be PIS...
Out of all the power set speed seems to be the end all of everything which is hardly the case.
But speed is then end of all of everything if it is sufficiently more than the other. Just imagine yourself fighting a bunch of statues. The only way you would lose is if you couldn't hurt the statues. This is common sense.
I don't know why the forum seems to apply the common sense of limiting a character's capabilities according to their portrayal in comics (ie, their personality, habits, etc) in every aspect of a debate save the speed angle.
Yes, I realize that Flash doesn't go as fast as possible in every instance because the story would be short.
We don't change his character to what we believe would be realistic though. That's how Flash is -- he's always faster than his opponent, but never enough to avoid the fight whatsoever.
A reasonable argument for Flash vs. whoever would be to see how Flash usually operates around opponents of a similar speed level to his opponent in the thread.
Speed not being a big deal *is* due to PIS.
If Wolverine can tag Thor multiple times, there is no reason that Thor should even be able to perceive Quicksilver AT ALL. Whichever side of the fence you are on this, there is PIS inherent here. Either its PIS that Wolverine can tag Thor that much, or its PIS that Thor can reliably keep track of Quicksilver.
Re: Re: Re: Marvel speed vs DC speed
Originally posted by h1a8Yes but when 99% of the time people you consider statue fight back and win. We have to question the ability of the speedsters, and chances are in comic book fight he won't be winning as easily as people make it out to be.
But speed is then end of all of everything if it is sufficiently more than the other. Just imagine you fighting a bunch of statues. The only way you would lose is if you couldn't hurt the statues. This is common sense.
Might as well have character Y turns person X to salt debate.