Originally posted by AllanklesI was using this irl example to his statement on sprinting/long distance running. My point is it only makes sense that these guys can travel faster than fight at.
Depends on the guys cardio, and also his weight class (to some extent). Super human stamina is part and parcel of these guys, some of them have fought consistently for days without ceasing.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
What's your view on consistent PIS?Because that's what it is. There are more cases of Superman fighting a much slower opponent (and not necessarily holding back either) and NOT absolutely stomping them than the reverse.
Precisely. Lots of people are using the PIS argument to give speedsters an advantage that no one else has on the forum: the ability to ignore ALL of their low-end feats.
Originally posted by Omega VisionConsistent PIS is still PIS, though. And like I said, story necessities dictate character capabilities. It's not limited to Superman, and it will always be this way.
What's your view on consistent PIS?Because that's what it is. There are more cases of Superman fighting a much slower opponent (and not necessarily holding back either) and NOT absolutely stomping them than the reverse.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Consistent PIS is still PIS, though. And like I said, story necessities dictate character capabilities. It's not limited to Superman, and it will always be this way.
Pretty sure I've seen you on the KK side of many a PC Karate Kid debate. His power of 'super karate' is basically the definition of consistent PIS.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Why would it be PIS? He's just that good.Anyway, I'm off for now. I enjoyed this, for a change. ermmnone
It's why it's consistent PIS. He's a by all indications normal human (with a flight ring) who by skill alone it seems can hang with Heralds.
You might be able to argue that he has some kind of Shonenesque "by training super hard I can punch open mountains" deal going, but as far as I know the comics basically just said he was just really good at fighting, which wouldn't account for him tagging the likes of PC Mon-El.
I think most of the speed difference can be summed up in the fact DC characters need to use it more in their mainstream interactions therefore they tend to get more feats.
If you look throughout Marvel history you'll see instances of people reacting in nanoseconds and at the speed light, or processing huge loads of information in under a second. It's just more spread out with Marvel then DC.
Like I said I think it tends to be which characters get interacted with the most and what characters are cash cows.
In Marvel Thor/Silver Surfer/anyother high powered character is more apt to deal and interact with a group consisting of Cap, Spidey, Wolverine then each other or other fast characters.
DC the big guns are more likely to team up and interact with each other. Which dictates that speed in general will get shown more often then in Marvel.
So DC will obviously get the better feats but once in awhile Marvel will throw in something in the speed department.
So overall DC speed >> Marvel Speed
But if you take into accounts the moments they do let characters use or interact with speed they do get some feats that put them on just above par with DC.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Not canon. 🙂
I know, I was just teasing you.
Seriously, though, I do think that we can call PIS when a feat is anomalous by the measure of other feats. Supes and flash have had trouble with all kinds of opponents who did not appear to have FTL speed, so for it to happen in a new comic wouldn't be anomalous, an I wouldn't dismiss it as PIS. I'd say that Supes getting knocked out by a small explosion, or Captain America and Nick Fury beating the U-Foes,etc definitely count as PIS.
Originally posted by Simbon
I know, I was just teasing you.Seriously, though, I do think that we can call PIS when a feat is anomalous by the measure of other feats. Supes and flash have had trouble with all kinds of opponents who did not appear to have FTL speed, so for it to happen in a new comic wouldn't be anomalous, an I wouldn't dismiss it as PIS. I'd say that Supes getting knocked out by a small explosion, or Captain America and Nick Fury beating the U-Foes,etc definitely count as PIS.
except that it's been flat out stated that Superman fights at the level of his opponents, as he believes he can win. He doesn't dodge punches, because he simply believes he can take them. Which he usually does.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestThe Quicksilver vs Mr X fight is another example.
Bigger. Mageddon was overwhelming the horizon at a distance of light years.Omega: I refer you to any thread Zoom is in. Speed does kill. If you can hit hard enough to hurt the opponent with your blows, and you're fast enough that they can't hit you.....they're kinda screwed.
And as shown in Marvel, speed wrecks telepaths too. Exodus got whupped by Quicksilver of all people. So if you can move faster than they can react, then how is speed not a crushing advantage?
Speed is hard to quantify in comics. You see this in fanboy type threads where Spider-Man is argued as fast as peak humans and Flash and Zoom are argued to be only a bit or equally faster than Superman or Surfer or Thanos (in reaction time for Thanos)
Originally posted by Juk3n"Now, I don't know how many of you dogs of the scurviest sea read comics, but I do a big pile of comics. One thing that blows my mind is how completely insane the powers in the DC universe are. Look at Superman. This guy has more powers than French restaurants have ways to say "your taste in wine is atrocious". He has powers to do with every part of his body and then some. He forgets powers sometimes. He can shoot heat rays out of his eyes, frost breath from his mouth and red son radiation from his ass. He's that sort of crazy dude. All because he absorbs solar radiation.
Theres a huge Flash (wally west) rant floating about the interweb somewhere that sums up the answer to this query pretty nicely. The basic flavour of it is 'Ignoring PIS and CIS, the high-end feats of Wally the West are so ludicrous that if we took them as solid the wally power set would never lose a fight to anyone ever, for ever.'
Look at Batman. His power? The anti-power. Sure, he should be some tame, kung fun master of not much, but instead he's the hottest shit to ever shit on a plate. You got a power? He'll find your weakness and give you seizures or heart attacks. He'll light you on fire when you're sleeping or make you recharge your green lantern ring in the power outlet. Ten thousand volts of **** you batman. That's Batman.
But the ****ing Flash, my god, my ****ING GOD, this man has the greatest powers of all. If Superman's powers are being sucked off by twin super models and batman coming home to discover your wife is not only bisexual but has two friends she wants you to 'get in on' then the Flash is an orgy with a thousand women who also want to pay your World of Warcraft billing. And click the mouse for you. This man is just that ****ing hot. They have to power him down in the comics half the time just to keep him from doing everyone else's job.
Ok first off, he can travel at lightspeed. Mother ****! Not only does he travel at lightspeed, but time slows down for him. So he feels like he's having a casual jog or reading the paper, meanwhile, his feet are moving so fast you can hear him coming from Montana while he's already gotten to Arizona. That's ****ing fast. But wait! The ability to move at Lightspeed just isn't ****ing enough!
I know! Christ this guy can punch you so many times in a second you've been hit five times in the cock and two times everywhere else. You think you're about to fight the Flash and then it hits you, for the last split second he's beaned your beanbags with more blows than you had sperm. But no, there's more!
The Flash can also vibrate through walls. Now last I heard, you can not move so fast you can vibrate through walls, so what actually happens is the Flash is so fast he can pick and choose the movement of his individual molecules and move them through other solid objects, phasing through solid matter like it ain't no thing. I mean you think a guy who runs at lightspeed would run into shit but no, the Flash just goes right through them. To top that with a cherry and some whipped cream (which the Flash made in like a millisecond, ****er) he can selectively choose to cause objects to be "okay" afterwards or ****ING EXPLODE. That's right. He can run through you and make you blow up by transfering kinetic energy into you. Like Jesus. IT's bad enough you can't hit this guy, but he doesn't even have to punch you. Now your testicles have exploded and you're thinking you're about to hit him. Jesus? Just give it up. He's the ****ing Flash.
Now imagine that somehow there's someone who can get around the Flash blowing your balls up secret ninja technique. Ok. He can also control the flow of energy between objects. This power makes no sense but basically he can throw a rock at you, and you think it's going slow and then he's like WHOOHOOO WIZARDLY FLASH POWERS and bam it's going at lightspeed. So he can throw seven million rocks at you in a second then make them all goes different speeds thus striking your nads with seven million rocks one after the other.
But wait! There's more! He can also take energy from the very power of speed and make clothes out of it. Yes. Flash makes his pants out of GOES FAST. The man is so fast he can make Flash pants that GOES FAST go right into. I don't even start to understand the physics of that but basically SPEED == REALLY TIGHT UNDERWEAR AND COOL LIGHTNING THINGIES OVER THE EAR. You would think this is the end of it but ok let's say Flash is fighting Superman and shit he's going to lose and **** how is Superman THIS ****ing strong? I don't know he must be Superman fused with Batman into some sort of guy with tons of plans on how to punch you far harder than anyone else ok to end it off the Flash can GO BACK OR FORWARD IN TIME ON COMMAND.
How do you beat this dude? You're thinking you're hashing him good, laying down the beatdown, missing your balls and suddenly BAM YOUR MOM FELL DOWN THE STAIRS TWENTY YEARS AGO and there's a dent in your forehead and Superman not thunk so gud no more. Actually she didn't fall down the stairs the Flash put speed into them so they fell up her! **** you Flash! You moved the stairs to Soviet ****ing russia! RUSH-A! *****.
Oh, and lastly his greatest power is he isn't fast in bed. He takes it slow and gets all the ladies with his superpowers then actually satisfies them in the sack. Who the Hell is this guy? You'd think he could AT LEAST be a premature ejaculator since his penis is moving at lightspeed but NOOOO he's even good in bed.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why Wolverine sucks cock and should go die in a freak greasefire."
uhuh
Originally posted by -Pr-
except that it's been flat out stated that Superman fights at the level of his opponents, as he believes he can win. He doesn't dodge punches, because he simply believes he can take them. Which he usually does.
How fast is Despero? He destroyed a team of FTL characters, so if he were to fight a Marvel character, would we say that he is so fast that the marvel character won't respond? If he isn't that fast, why did the team let him win?