Originally posted by Harbingermy point is that he could if it came down to it. my issue is with the people outright denying that he has the capacity to do so.
1. When's Flash ever spammed IMPs?
2. Why would he do this when CIS is on?
3. Can we please stop with the "force of (insert random ass galactic term here) blows" argument?
/
Originally posted by celeyhyga17http://imageshack.us/f/237/jlaourworldsatwarpg040yr.jpg/
Oh you mean like how he has the capacity to run in air and space unaided??😉
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6270/jlaourworldsatwarpg033kg.jpg
Originally posted by Uriel005
/ http://imageshack.us/f/237/jlaourworldsatwarpg040yr.jpg/http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6270/jlaourworldsatwarpg033kg.jpg
uh huh... "undaided"...
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/Miscelaneous/Flashv213612.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/Miscelaneous/Flashv213614.jpg
how bout straight from his own buddy's mouth...
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/Miscelaneous/GreenLanternv46002.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/Miscelaneous/GreenLanternv46004.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/Miscelaneous/GreenLanternv46006.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/Miscelaneous/GreenLanternv46007.jpg
Originally posted by "Id"
Actually if we take Nate ability to move within planck moments literally, it bastardizes any speed feat Wally or Eobard has demonstrated up to this moment.It’s not about how we come to understand a planck unit is measured, but how much ground Nate can cover within those units. With the entire time stream open for him to walk through it, there is no way to measure it.
To place it simply, to a cover a distance of one millimeter in a plack unit, is far faster than a pico-second.
Planck Unit>>>>>>>>>>Picosecond.
Planck Unit 10^-43 (1 second)
Picosecond 10^-12
it's really simple--"plank time" is simply the time it takes LIGHT to travel a single unit of "plank length". it doesn't matter WHAT a plank length is (which, in reality, is really, really REALLY small--almost inconceiveably smaller than a proton). if plank length=the width of a proton or a kilometer, it's irrelevant. "plank time" is BASED ON THE SPEED OF LIGHT.
therefore, ANYTHING travelling FASTER than light>>>plank time. or to say it another way--anyone travelling FASTER than c is ALREADY moving "within" plank time.
the whole "plank time" thing really is sorta silly. one more writer trying to make something 'sound cool' i think. it in no way really implies you can 'see' the future. ares certainly isn't capable of ftl speeds but was combatting nate WITHIN his 'plank time' space. it does mean that the rules of the physical world are swapped for quantum dynamics though, which, i guess, can be used to explain pretty well anything. 😬
flash's speed though can become nearly infinite. that is FAR in excess of a 'time' that is based solely upon the speed of light. even 'plank time'.
i'm not trying to 'down play' the ability. to perceive the world in plank time is obviously impressive. just saying, it certainly isn't, by definition, greater at all than what flash has done.
Originally posted by leonidasagree on all accounts leo, but it is enough to negate a blitz and the instaKO flash psoters atribute to him. plus he is only semitangible by default and has AoE attacks, mindrape and the possibility to remake his faux matter body or use his powers without it. overall, he has what it takes.
it's really simple--"plank time" is simply the time it takes LIGHT to travel a single unit of "plank length". it doesn't matter WHAT a plank length is (which, in reality, is really, really REALLY small--almost inconceiveably smaller than a proton). if plank length=the width of a proton or a kilometer, it's irrelevant. "plank time" is BASED ON THE SPEED OF LIGHT.therefore, ANYTHING travelling FASTER than light>>>plank time. or to say it another way--anyone travelling FASTER than c is ALREADY moving "within" plank time.
the whole "plank time" thing really is sorta silly. one more writer trying to make something 'sound cool' i think. it in no way really implies you can 'see' the future. ares certainly isn't capable of ftl speeds but was combatting nate WITHIN his 'plank time' space. it does mean that the rules of the physical world are swapped for quantum dynamics though, which, i guess, can be used to explain pretty well anything. 😬
flash's speed though can become nearly infinite. that is FAR in excess of a 'time' that is based solely upon the speed of light. even 'plank time'.
i'm not trying to 'down play' the ability. to perceive the world in plank time is obviously impressive. just saying, it certainly isn't, by definition, greater at all than what flash has done.
Originally posted by 753
agree on all accounts leo, but it is enough to negate a blitz and the instaKO flash psoters atribute to him. plus he is only semitangible by default and has AoE attacks, mindrape and the possibility to remake his faux matter body or use his powers without it. overall, he has what it takes.
i agree with you that nate COULD win this, absolutely. it just seems some think 'plank time' feats=>>>flash feats. that part just isn't true.
i really have no idea how this would play out in a book. shrug
Originally posted by 753In all honesty 753 it shouldn't be enough to stop an all out flash blitz. When flash puts on the gas and goes to max speed he's faster than anything else in the universe. Also the speedforce by itself is absurdly powerful when you consider what it can do. At some point Flash broke his legs and basically pulled braces out of the speedforce to keep running. It negates the damn Anti-Life equation and basically controls kinetic energy.
agree on all accounts leo, but it is enough to negate a blitz and the instaKO flash psoters atribute to him. plus he is only semitangible by default and has AoE attacks, mindrape and the possibility to remake his faux matter body or use his powers without it. overall, he has what it takes.
I know others may not agree with me and that is their prerogative but in my opinion the Flash is basically not getting taken down in a straight fight by anything short of reality altercation to remove him from the universe. TP is shown not to work on him when he fought Martian in blackest night as he just accelerates his thoughts beyond their comprehension. Other attacks he just steps around in time and space. He also hits like a mac truck and can bfr dump as well as make all movement on his opponents. So basically Flash going all out using all his abilities is a retarded character to use in comic books.
Originally posted by 753But the flash really tends not to use his more exotic powers against Zoom. I think I've brought this up before that speedsteal to keep up was the big thing in their fights that I've seen Flash pull up. No speedforce barrier breaks, no speedsteals though with negative speedforce I don't know if that would work phasing through obstacles was another one but really Flash tends to go stupid with his options around hunter or thrawne. Also is Shaman always intangible or is it a conscious/unconscious thing like Alan Scott.
zoom's timewarp gives the flash hell all the time. SNG's step out of time trick should pull some similar results, and hed phase through the blitz, forcing flash to resort to his more exotic attacks. as they face each other exotic attack against exotic attack, I see SNg coming out on top more often.
Originally posted by leonidas
it's really simple--"plank time" is simply the time it takes LIGHT to travel a single unit of "plank length". it doesn't matter WHAT a plank length is (which, in reality, is really, really REALLY small--almost inconceiveably smaller than a proton). if plank length=the width of a proton or a kilometer, it's irrelevant. "plank time" is BASED ON THE SPEED OF LIGHT.therefore, ANYTHING travelling FASTER than light>>>plank time. or to say it another way--anyone travelling FASTER than c is ALREADY moving "within" plank time.
the whole "plank time" thing really is sorta silly. one more writer trying to make something 'sound cool' i think. it in no way really implies you can 'see' the future. ares certainly isn't capable of ftl speeds but was combatting nate WITHIN his 'plank time' space. it does mean that the rules of the physical world are swapped for quantum dynamics though, which, i guess, can be used to explain pretty well anything. 😬
flash's speed though can become nearly infinite. that is FAR in excess of a 'time' that is based solely upon the speed of light. even 'plank time'.
i'm not trying to 'down play' the ability. to perceive the world in plank time is obviously impressive. just saying, it certainly isn't, by definition, greater at all than what flash has done.
I can not agree with this argument, it’s a conflicting one that goes against how Flash’s speed feats are measured. To operate in Planck Units, is to attain a speed far greater than Picosecond. For your argument to stand, you would have to show Wally move at Planck Units literally, not by theorem. .
What your doing is taking one aspect of how Planck Units are measured (light traveling in vacuum), and deduct that its within Wallys grasp, since Wally has accelerated past c. However all units of measurement, fall within measuring light traveling through vacuum. And Wally has hit his benchmark at covering grounds at picoseconds, which is still far less than a Planck Unit.
Originally posted by "Id"
I can not agree with this argument, it’s a conflicting one that goes against how Flash’s speed feats are measured. To operate in Planck Units, is to attain a speed far greater than Picosecond. For your argument to stand, you would have to show Wally move at Planck Units [b]literally, not by theorem. .What your doing is taking one aspect of how Planck Units are measured (light traveling in vacuum), and deduct that its within Wallys grasp, since Wally has accelerated past c. However all units of measurement, fall within measuring light traveling through vacuum. And Wally has hit his benchmark at covering grounds at picoseconds, which is still far less than a Planck Unit. [/B]
i don't think you're understanding what i'm saying--it's not a 'debatable' point because the term 'plank time' is very clearly defined and immutable.
do you disagree that flash can attain ftl speeds? (i'll assume you don't.)
do you agree that "plank time" is simply a very small distance LIGHT can travel in a specified time? (i'll assume you do--you can easily check it yourself if you wish).
if yes to the above, you HAVE to conclude that if flash goes ftl, he WILL cover a certain distance (ANY DISTANCE) in a timespan that is FAR faster than light would travel over any EQUAL distance, be it large or infinitesimally small.
not sure what you can debate, id.
you're referencing picoseconds and attoseconds etc, doesn't hold up here, because flash is actually PERFORMING FULL ACTIONS in that time. he is not simply covering a distance so small it is practically immeasureable.
as far as nate's plank time--he didn't appear to be MOVING that quickly. ares broke through and had no trouble. i think it was never meant to indicate he could move at those speeds--it meant he could perceive things beyond the physical world and see into quantum time. that in itself is impressive as hell (i don't think i need to tell you i love nate) and it may very well be enough to allow him to at least perceive flash and blunt a blitz.
but to simply say you don't think flash can move that quickly just doesn't make sense. 😬
Originally posted by Uriel005Dark avengers amde it seem like it was his default state, he just wasnt really solid. he could still inprint force onto objects as if touching them in a traditional sense, but it was like he wasnt really there, attacks phased right through
But the flash really tends not to use his more exotic powers against Zoom. I think I've brought this up before that speedsteal to keep up was the big thing in their fights that I've seen Flash pull up. No speedforce barrier breaks, no speedsteals though with negative speedforce I don't know if that would work phasing through obstacles was another one but really Flash tends to go stupid with his options around hunter or thrawne. Also is Shaman always intangible or is it a conscious/unconscious thing like Alan Scott.
Originally posted by leonidas
i don't think you're understanding what i'm saying--it's not a 'debatable' point because the term 'plank time' is very clearly defined and immutable.
A unit measured by how the speed of a photon, covering the length something less than a proton. That takes place in a multiple of 44 of a second.
You see I understand very well what your trying to argue. But your arguing by theorem, since you lack any hard evidence. Otherwise you would have supplied me with the following scans.
[list]
[*]Wally covering grounds at Planck Units/Time.
[*]Wally entering the Planck Length.
[/list]
Originally posted by leonidasnot sure what you can debate, id.
Let me do this, I will put your argument of speed in perspective.
Originally posted by leonidasif yes to the above, you HAVE to conclude that if flash goes ftl, he WILL cover a certain distance (ANY DISTANCE) in a timespan that is FAR faster than light would travel over any EQUAL distance, be it large or infinitesimally small.
you're referencing picoseconds and attoseconds etc, doesn't hold up here, because flash is actually PERFORMING FULL ACTIONS in that time. he is not simply covering a distance so small it is practically immeasureable.
but to simply say you don't think flash can move that quickly just doesn't make sense. 😬
So what was the highest value, Wally has ever transverse? If possible could you supply all values (time, distance, speed).
Can you do that? And by all means, this extends to anyone.
Originally posted by "Id"racing death to the end of the universe any time he breaks the speedforce barrier...
A unit measured by how the speed of a photon, covering the length something less than a proton. That takes place in a multiple of 44 of a second.You see I understand very well what your trying to argue. But your arguing by theorem, since you lack any hard evidence. Otherwise you would have supplied me with the following scans.
[list]
[*]Wally covering grounds at Planck Units/Time.
[*]Wally entering the Planck Length.
[/list]It’s the other way around. I am not sure what you can debate. Leo.
Let me do this, I will put your argument of speed in perspective.
The bolded part caught my eye. I want to place that argument into perspective.
So what was the highest value, Wally has ever transverse? If possible could you supply all values (time, distance, speed).
Can you do that? And by all means, this extends to anyone.
Originally posted by "Id"
A unit measured by how the speed of a photon, covering the length something less than a proton. That takes place in a multiple of 44 of a second.You see I understand very well what your trying to argue. But your arguing by theorem, since you lack any hard evidence. Otherwise you would have supplied me with the following scans.
[list]
[*]Wally covering grounds at Planck Units/Time.
[*]Wally entering the Planck Length.
[/list]
your "argument" is nonsensical. you're asking the wrong thing, looking for the wrong thing. a plank unit is a measure of DISTANCE, not speed. the plank length is ALSO a measure of distance. there is no 'entering it'. there is no "covering the ground in plank units". ANY distance can be measured in "plank units", like a parsec can be measured in micrometers. you'd just need a lot of them. think of wally as a photon. it is the fastest measurable speed in the universe--LIGHT. but light is nothing compared to wally and others.
It’s the other way around. I am not sure what you can debate. Leo.Let me do this, I will put your argument of speed in perspective.
The bolded part caught my eye. I want to place that argument into perspective.
So what was the highest value, Wally has ever transverse? If possible could you supply all values (time, distance, speed).
Can you do that? And by all means, this extends to anyone. [/B]
so you want.... quantifable speed feats from flash? there is of course the time he cleared the people from the explosion and he was moving several 100s/1000s of times>c. there is this which is NOT quantifiable:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/blackflash15.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/blackflash16.jpg
literally racing to the END OF TIME. "plank time" has no meaning here. why? BECAUSE IT IS BASED ON THE SPEED OF LIGHT. it breaks down. this speed feat is UNQUANTIFIABLE, as is ANYTHING suprpassing light, and thus surpassing "plank time". you would ned to prove (if nate is within this time frame) how much FASTER THEN LIGHT is he? but that doesn't work, it's not how his powers work. his are perceptual, imo, as opposed to motion-based. he can see multiple timelines--past and present. wally can do the exact same thing. while racing black flash he saw himself in the past and future than went so far past that he reached the END OF TIME. to me, that indicates his speed and ability to perceive things>nates who could only see a limited amount of time into the future or past.
whether plank time is measured over a tony distance, or a galactic distance matters not at all. ANYONE travelling>c can cover the distance (whatever you want it to be) FASTER THAN A PHOTON CAN.
honestly, not sure how it could be any clearer. you can simply say--BOTH must exist WITHIN plank time, but since there is no way to quantify it, we simply can't say which is...... "faster" (for lack of a better term), but it is clear that exceeding c means you leave physical laws behind.
