Originally posted by quanchi112Unless I'm mistaken he was originally referring to speed as it relates the the topic at hand. He elaborated that point here:
He is free to concede but he claimed Starhawk is in the same league as the Sentry. If hew wants to continue he can create the proper thread. The choice is his. If he responses though so will I.
Originally posted by inimalist
lol, I'm half talking shit to get attention for him...give me a bit... being better than Sentry might be pushing it, but I still think, in terms of the OP, he is a better fit (ie: Sentry might win more out of 10, but in terms of a well rounded speedster, he fits the bill better)
Now which eye are you willing to part with first?
Originally posted by dmills
Unless I'm mistaken he was originally referring to speed as it relates the the topic at hand. He elaborated that point here:Now which eye are you willing to part with first?
yes, I was saying Starhawk is superior in terms of speed and how he uses it in fights (sorry for not posting anything yet...)
if quan wants to insist that Sentry is leagues above starhawk in terms of power or in a fight, I'll gladly BZ him. The challange is made.
Originally posted by dmills
What has Makkari done combat speed wise? Last I saw him he was getting wtf pwned by Gilgamish.
If this is true, that's sad as hell. Mak moved so fast he SMOKED the Runner and was stuck at superspeed levels where everyone without hyperlight speed capability seemed like a statue!
But you do have a point, I don't recall anything "WOW" worthy concerning his combat speed.
Having said that let me reorder it according to what you were looking for dmills :
1) Runner (FTL speed and that Thanos speedblitz and Surfer beatdown were impressive combat speed feats)
2) Gladiator (FTL speed and that Black Celestial Arc feat of him conversing and battling beings moving at hyperlight speed because of a Richard's device was awesome)
3) Makkari (fastest travel speed but very few combat speed feats worth mentioning)
Originally posted by Naija boy
This isnt a vs battle firstly , and secondly surfer has never really fought thor himself using any form of superspeed blitzing tactic not that it matters. Bill being able to react to surfers attacks was pretty impressive and is evidence of his reactions certainly. However, reactions alone arent enough to put them in the same vein of speed as I intended to describe it. Furthermore, im sure you would be the first to claim that bills feats and thor feats arent interchangeable.
Okay? He was actively using hit and run tactics during the battle with Warlock IIRC. Fly really fast, zap, fly really fast was what he was doing.
So you believe even if they have similar reactions, they're not in the same vein because....of Surfer's maneuverability? Just curious.
Eh, I'm not going to be using it as a Thor feat or anything. Just pointing out that a Thor analogue matched Surfer while moving at trans light speed. It certainly doesn't hurt Thor's case as I doubt Bill's faster than the Odinson.
Originally posted by Naija boy
There is a difference yes. The difference being that Surfer is unable to generate the propulsion to perform these blitzes without the aid of his board. However his bodily movements, reactions, and perceptions still need to be top notch in order to keep up with the pace his board is moving at.
Where would you draw the line? How do you view Thor's flying? He has to actively change the direction of his hammer either physically or with his thoughts. Does that support his reaction capabilities in your book? Either way, Surfer actively doing something similar to punching an opponent incredibly fast, or processing something really fast is more impressive than the zap blitz imo.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Most times (as in lots of blitzes by characters) these blitzes are unquantified speedwise, but there is the scene with deathurge in which surfer mentions that he is faster than the speed of light while dodging, circling and then blasting deathurge at superspeed.
Well, there are scenes where Thor shows real maneuverability in flight and other scenes where Thor is actively engaged in combat with large enemies. There are times where Thor dodges and weaves while flying then acting and it's stated he has great speed etc. Actually, he did maybe a couple of times under Walter. Off the top of my head, there was the time with Surtur, maybe Fafnir etc.
Originally posted by Naija boy
By perception im referring to something like being able to focus his vision on an electronic signal(which moves at near lightspeed). and then subsequently react to and follow its movements. To someone without superspeed perceptions the aforementioned signal would appear as less than a blur.
Fair enough I guess. Thor has a feat where he punches at microsecond speed or some such.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Such feats are pretty indicative of his combat as well as all round superspeed. As i mentioned before, without his board he may not be able to propel himself to such levels of locomotion , but the fact that his bodily movements,processing, and perception speed are able to to keep up with his aforementioned immense locomotion while on his board and facilitate complex superspeed battle manoevres shows all round top notch speed whichever way
you look at it.Oh yeah and i do remember bills perception feats that u are referring to.
Well, if Surfer can actively operate at such speeds, I guess it's impressive enough but tracking feats and thought processing feats are more impressive. If he can actively zap multiple targets in theory it shouldn't be different than Superman rebuilding something as he actively moves his arms in between targets. Course, comics are a bit illogical at times.
Originally posted by inimalistI was discussing overall in terms of a fight not in terms of speed alone.
yes, I was saying Starhawk is superior in terms of speed and how he uses it in fights (sorry for not posting anything yet...)if quan wants to insist that Sentry is leagues above starhawk in terms of power or in a fight, I'll gladly BZ him. The challange is made.
Maybe in the future but I don't have access to the entire run of the gotg.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I was discussing overall in terms of a fight not in terms of speed alone.Maybe in the future but I don't have access to the entire run of the gotg.
I have every starhawk appearance and would be glad to provide them to you
I think you vastly underestimate the power of the one who knows. sentry might beat him, but it isn't a stomp by any means (which has been my point all along really)
Originally posted by inimalistPm me the gotg info by way of torrent then.
I have every starhawk appearance and would be glad to provide them to youI think you vastly underestimate the power of the one who knows. sentry might beat him, but it isn't a stomp by any means (which has been my point all along really)
I think he's formidable yes but the Sentry's power levels were off the charts. I think him busting loose would really tear into starhawk but anyways I digress as I don't want to derail this into another mini debate and cause dmills to break into tears.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay? He was actively using hit and run tactics during the battle with Warlock IIRC. Fly really fast, zap, fly really fast was what he was doing.So you believe even if they have similar reactions, they're not in the same vein because....of Surfer's maneuverability? Just curious.
The hit and run tactics you are describing are not at all analogous to the blitzes im talking about which involve a prolonged barrage of multiple attacks in quicksuccession at superspeed speeds. That tangential to this entire discussion however.
Oh and its due to surfers manoevrability in combat (Surfer actually does perfrom blitzes, BRB doesnt) as well as mental perception and processing speeds
Where would you draw the line? How do you view Thor's flying? He has to actively change the direction of his hammer either physically or with his thoughts. Does that support his reaction capabilities in your book? Either way, Surfer actively doing something similar to punching an opponent incredibly fast, or processing something really fast is more impressive than the zap blitz imo.
It does support it certainly to an extent, but the key thing is application within combat in order to carry out attacks like blitzes etc. which surfer has shown. When surfer is zapping opponents with blasts he is directing his blasts with his arms i.e moving them in conjunction with his superspeed board propulsion. In order to co-ordinate such attacks, his bodily movements thus have to be at an extremely high speed. Moreover given that surfer is a blaster not a puncher, it is as legitimate as any of the other types of feats you mentioned. Even then, he does also have extremely good processing feats as well.
Well, there are scenes where Thor shows real maneuverability in flight and other scenes where Thor is actively engaged in combat with large enemies. There are times where Thor dodges and weaves while flying then acting and it's stated he has great speed etc. Actually, he did maybe a couple of times under Walter. Off the top of my head, there was the time with Surtur, maybe Fafnir etc.
I believe i know the scenes ur referring to but they arent surfer level combat manovrability even while not being unimpressive.
Well, if Surfer can actively operate at such speeds, I guess it's impressive enough but tracking feats and thought processing feats are more impressive. If he can actively zap multiple targets in theory it shouldn't be different than Superman rebuilding something as he actively moves his arms in between targets. Course, comics are a bit illogical at times
Tracking feats and thought processing feats are indeed more impressive i would say for the very reason that many of them can be quantified. i.e Surfers electronic signal feat, Surfer processing a milleniums worth of info etc. I agree on the last part of your post since its the same physical movement being carried out. And while i dont expect surfer to be seen rebuilding things physically anytime soon (matter manipulation makes that unneessary), i believe he has been shown to utilize such speed in combat just fine.