Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
You clearly havent seen any of Luke's training or force usage or the fact that Suited Vader only ever saw computer readouts in side his helmet....therefore line of sight was not an issue.
Awwwwwww shiiiiieeeeeeeeet.
I forgot about that. I take back what I said. What's retarded is I had read that thought in this very same thread well before I posted what I did. I completely forgot like a tard. The force (pun intended) required to pick of the stone is definitely more than required to choke someone.
So, yeah, my mistake, my bad. But **** you for pwning me. 😠 😠
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nice try, but no. Sith and Jedi get more powerful as they age, Vader was more powerful in ESB when he choked Ozzel.His best Pre-suit choke feat is from 5 feet away with eyes on.
Accept it.
Not a screen feat or fact. Anakin's were off the meter as a boy, so your argument holds no jawa juice, Im afraid.
Nah. 🙂
Originally posted by Sadako of GirthSo you're telling me that Vader was more powerful in ROTS than he was in ESB? haermm Gimmee a break, dude. With age comes experience. With more training, one becomes stronger.
Not a screen feat or fact. Anakin's were off the meter as a boy, so your argument holds no jawa juice, Im afraid.Nah. 🙂
And yaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Game over.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So you're telling me that Vader was more powerful in ROTS than he was in ESB? haermm Gimmee a break, dude. With age comes experience. With more training, one becomes stronger.And yaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Game over.
Well, from George Lucas, himself, Vader is not as powerful as he once was.
He made it a point to talk about how he wanted to PT saber fights to be faster and more outrageous. That's a paraphrase, of course. He wanted to show us what healthy, fully trained, Jedi's were like so we could see a contrast between an aging Cyborg and a barely trained Jedi Knight.
So, Cyborg Vader, as far as dueling goes in G-level canon, was supposed to slower and all-around not as good as his more fleshy form.
That said, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. You're talking about a mastery over the force. I will have to agree with you and say that the fleshy Vader could not have pulled off that monitor force choke on the ship. That (against Padme) was, from what we can tell, his first use of force choke. So it should be noticeably weaker than his exploits in ESB.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
😛 HeheheheheheeeAt least you're a good sport about it. 🙂
Well, when I'm obviously wrong, there's no reason to be a douche about it. 😄 I know when I've been whooped.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So you're telling me that Vader was more powerful in ROTS than he was in ESB? haermm Gimmee a break, dude. With age comes experience. With more training, one becomes stronger.And yaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Game over.
Baloney.
Show me one screen feat where ESB Vader is more powerful than ROTS Vader.
With age comes a feeble, crusty, old, white man in an exoskeleton. I'm not dissing Lord Vader's power's as a Sith, but ROTS Vader vs. ESB Vader is just straight gimp fest.
Originally posted by Impediment
Baloney.Show me one screen feat where ESB Vader is more powerful than ROTS Vader.
With age comes a feeble, crusty, old, white man in an exoskeleton. I'm not dissing Lord Vader's power's as a Sith, but ROTS Vader vs. ESB Vader is just straight gimp fest.
Force choking a man on the other side of the Executor. TKing several objects at once while fighting Luke on Cloud City.
And let's see, what was Yoda's greatest TK feat? TKing the X Wing in ESB.
And look at how much more powerful Luke was in ROTJ than in ESB.
You wanted one, you got four. Thanks. 😄
I'd agree with RJ on this. ESB Vader > RotJ Vader.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, from George Lucas, himself, Vader is not as powerful as he once was.
He has never said that. He simply stated that Vader's potential was greatly diminished. He also said the Vader was 80% Palpatine, but never specifeid how powerful Anakin was only that he could become twice as powerful.
So, Cyborg Vader, as far as dueling goes in G-level canon, was supposed to slower and all-around not as good as his more fleshy form.
Slower yes. But Vader shows far more skill, IMO, than his impulsive younger self. I mean consider the Mace Windu/Palpatine fight. This is one of the slowest fights in the series yet it is between two of the most powerful combatants. Clearly speed doesn't mean everything.
Originally posted by ares834
He has never said that. He simply stated that Vader's potential was greatly diminished. He also said the Vader was 80% Palpatine, but never specifeid how powerful Anakin was only that he could become twice as powerful.
You're dreadfully wrong. So wrong that you should be ashamed to call yourself a Star Wars fan.
I'm looking right now for the general commentary that contained what I'm talking about. I'm not having ANY luck finding ANY commentary from George Lucas on Vader...so I don't know how this will go...
Originally posted by ares834
Slower yes. But Vader shows far more skill, IMO, than his impulsive younger self. I mean consider the Mace Windu/Palpatine fight. This is one of the slowest fights in the series yet it is between two of the most powerful combatants. Clearly speed doesn't mean everything.
"Far more skill" eh? Nah.
You're obviously a Cyborg Vader fan.
"Because Anakin's body is so injured in Episode III, he isn't as strong in the Force as the Emperor had hoped. And that's why it was so important to the Emperor in the original trilogy to replace Vader with Luke, who was stronger in the Force than his own father. In fact, George mentioned that Anakin and Luke's lives are extremely parallel but while Anakin chooses the dark side at almost every turn, Luke chooses the right path."
http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/release/publicity/news20050104.html
Originally posted by ares834👆
I'd agree with RJ on this. ESB Vader > RotJ Vader.He has never said that. He simply stated that Vader's potential was greatly diminished. He also said the Vader was 80% Palpatine, but never specifeid how powerful Anakin was only that he could become twice as powerful.
Slower yes. But Vader shows far more skill, IMO, than his impulsive younger self. I mean consider the Mace Windu/Palpatine fight. This is one of the slowest fights in the series yet it is between two of the most powerful combatants. Clearly speed doesn't mean everything.
A few more tidbits:
During the purge, why was Yoda the only Jedi to feel the others dying? Gee, it wouldn't have anything to do with Yoda being older (more experienced, more attuned to the Force), would it?
Anakin vs. Dooku, AOTC. Dooku wtf pwned him. Round two in ROTS, Anakin returned the favor. He even went as far as saying "My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count."
Yoda's TK feats. His best TK feat was in ESB when he lifted the X Wing. He was, you know, old and stuff.
Obi Wan feeling the deaths of the people on Alderaan. Doubtful his younger self would have felt this.
Look at Luke's power jump between ESB and ROTJ. He did this through experience and training. As he aged, he became more powerful.
Is it a coincidence that Palpatine, one of the most powerful, is an old fart?
Younglings, Padwans and Masters. Why do these classifications exist?
ROTS Anakin would wtf pwn ESB Vader in a saber duel, but ESB Vader would RAPE ROTS Anakin in a force duel.
Shall I go on?
Originally posted by dadudemon
You're dreadfully wrong. So wrong that you should be ashamed to call yourself a Star Wars fan.
Personal insults already... Anyway I am completley correct.
From the Vanity Fair interview "Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful. But he ended up losing his arms and a leg and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because as a living form, there's not that much of him left. So his ability to to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he's maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor. So that isn't what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version if he can turn Luke to the Dark side. You'll see, a this goes on, Luke is faced with the same issues and practically the same scenes that Anakin is faced with. Anakin says yes and Luke says no."
Basically stating that Anakin as Vader could not become what he was ment to be. Still it puts a considerable amount of power on Vader. 80% of the power of Palpatine is nothing to scoff at and Anakin has no displays that would put him in that league.
I'm looking right now for the general commentary that contained what I'm talking about. I'm not having ANY luck finding ANY commentary from George Lucas on Vader...so I don't know how this will go...
I know what quote your talking about. It's the "prime of the Jedi" quote.
"Far more skill" eh? Nah.
Nice
You're obviously a Cyborg Vader fan.
What gave it away? My avatar? My sig? 😛
"Because Anakin's body is so injured in Episode III, he isn't as strong in the Force as the Emperor had hoped. And that's why it was so important to the Emperor in the original trilogy to replace Vader with Luke, who was stronger in the Force than his own father. In fact, George mentioned that Anakin and Luke's lives are extremely parallel but while Anakin chooses the dark side at almost every turn, Luke chooses the right path."http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/release/publicity/news20050104.html
What does this prove? In fact, this is based on the very same interview I was talking about. It merely states that Anakin could no longer become what Palpatine had hoped which is more powerful than him. It in no way states that Anakin>Vader.
Originally posted by ares834
Personal insults already... Anyway I am completley correct.From the Vanity Fair interview "Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful. But he ended up losing his arms and a leg and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because as a living form, there's not that much of him left. So his ability to to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he's maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor. So that isn't what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version if he can turn Luke to the Dark side. You'll see, a this goes on, Luke is faced with the same issues and practically the same scenes that Anakin is faced with. Anakin says yes and Luke says no."
Basically stating that Anakin as Vader could not become what he was ment to be. Still it puts a considerable amount of power on Vader. 80% of the power of Palpatine is nothing to scoff at and Anakin has no displays that would put him in that league.
I know what quote your talking about. It's the "prime of the Jedi" quote.
Nice
What gave it away? My avatar? My sig? 😛
What does this prove? In fact, this is based on the very same interview I was talking about. It merely states that Anakin could no longer become what Palpatine had hoped which is more powerful than him. It in no way states that Anakin>Vader.
You're so horribly incorrect. This is not even debatable. You will be ignored. Moving along...
I bet next you'll tell us that Padme was a lesbian?
Edit - I broke down and read your post. You have agreed with me in the most direct way possible while proving me right. I do not know what kind of twisted perspective you have to have to think that Suit Vader is better than Anakin or pre-Mustafar burned Vader.
Originally posted by dadudemon
You're so horribly incorrect. This is not even debatable. You will be ignored. Moving along...
Really? I love your argument. It's so... infromative.
Especially since what I said was completley correct. Vader is 80% of Palptiane power ("now he's maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor."😉 and that Anakin had the potential to become twice as powerful ("So his ability to to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared"😉
Edit - I broke down and read your post. You have agreed with me in the most direct way possible while proving me right. I do not know what kind of twisted perspective you have to have to think that Suit Vader is better than Anakin or pre-Mustafar burned Vader.
Really? You don't seem to understand that potential =/= power nor is
"was going to be" the same as "is". Sure Vader's power was "curbed" but that does not mean lessened merely limited.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Force choking a man on the other side of the Executor. TKing several objects at once while fighting Luke on Cloud City.And let's see, what was Yoda's greatest TK feat? TKing the X Wing in ESB.
And look at how much more powerful Luke was in ROTJ than in ESB.
You wanted one, you got four. Thanks. 😄
Yeah, I didn't ask about Luke or Yoda. Also, Vader wasn't fighting Luke when he tk'd the objects during the Bespin fight; he was standing still.
Keep trying, Dodgy Dolly.