SM
That's what's not entirely clear. Instances where Sidious is claimed to be most powerful always march right into the fruits of his scheming.
Where?
SM
No one ever posts "Sidious was most powerful because he was undefeated in combat"
Is that a requirement for someone who is the most powerful Sith ever?
SM
or "He knew every single Sith sorcery ritual ever".
Based on all available evidence, Palpatine's knowledge of the Force transcends any single practitioner of the Force in the mythos.
SM
The big point that he's the most powerful practitioner in modern times is really telling -- there's barely any Sith to compete against.
It reaffirms his superiority over Count Dooku. 😂
Originally posted by RagingBoner
all available evidence
Originally posted by RagingBoner
My goodness is Count Dooku somebody's *****.
You'll have to summarize what that episode is about. I don't watch Children's shows.
And actually, I just find the idea of your essay to be somewhat cute.
Do you actually place alot of importance in it?
Originally posted by RagingBoner
Where?
Most available quotes, see above.
Is that a requirement for someone who is the most powerful Sith ever?
Sidious is credited with being the only Sith to truly overcome the Jedi via political machinations and subterfuge. Hell yes it's apparent that he's cunning and patient, but does this equate into battle prowess? No.
It reaffirms his superiority over Count Dooku. 😂
Ragnos > Dooku. Stfu
I'm totally going to piss you off with this:
“Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.” (Vader: the Ultimate Guide, page 19)
The final proclamation of Palpatine’s status as the strongest dark sider in history is the most valid of all. Written from an out-of-universe visual guide, it is a blanket statement that is thoroughly and utterly binding. From the perspective of most with any sort of regard for the Lucasfilm canon policy, one would naturally conclude that the debate would be over.
The universe didn't know Ragnos; only the Sith did. Sidious/Palpatine was an Emperor and thus publicly known.
QED!
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Most available quotes, see above.
In what strange, fictive universe are those "most available quotes"?
SM
Sidious is credited with being the only Sith to truly overcome the Jedi via political machinations and subterfuge.
Which, if I'm not mistaken, Ragnos didn't do. All this is does is prove Palpatine's superiority over his predecessor in another facet of Sithdom.
SM
Hell yes it's apparent that he's cunning and patient, but does this equate into battle prowess? No.
I'd say extraordinarily brilliant is more accurate than mere "cunning and patient." But again, does a spotless record mean that one is the greatest ever? That seems to be ignoring context: What if the combatant in question hardly ever fights? What of the caliber of his opponents?
SM
Ragnos > Dooku. Stfu
According to what source?
SM
I'm totally going to piss you off with this:The universe didn't know Ragnos; only the Sith did. Sidious/Palpatine was an Emperor and thus publicly known.
QED!
😐
😂
If you interpret that quote to mean "everyone in the galaxy" had to know of the person in question, then there's no such animal: there's nothing indicating that everyone in the galaxy was aware of even Palpatine's existence. For example, the Lost Tribe of the Sith of the Fate of the Jedi series operated within the galaxy, but trapped on their world, they weren't aware of galactic developments.
Clearly some in the galaxy knew of Ragnos, just like many in the galaxy knew of Palpatine.
Originally posted by RagingBoner
In what strange, fictive universe are those "most available quotes"?/
Reading is fundament, as Nai would say. I've posted quotes above, you've provided a few in your essay. I worked with those before and now. Areyousatisfiedomfg.
Which, if I'm not mistaken, Ragnos didn't do. All this is does is prove Palpatine's superiority over his predecessor in another facet of Sithdom./
No, it proves that Sidious was a benefactor of circumstance politically a manipulator of the highest caliber. This does not substantiate battle prowess, which is what we worship here in SWVF.
I'd say extraordinarily brilliant is more accurate than mere "cunning and patient." But again, does a spotless record mean that one is the greatest ever? That seems to be ignoring context: What if the combatant in question hardly ever fights? What of the caliber of his opponents?
So who is more likely to have dangerous opponents; an undisputed master of an entire empire of folks who make KotOR-era Jedi and Sith look like kids with toys? Those who created Malachor V and the infamous Force Drain? The empire founded on Sith sorcery and principles which Bane, Plageus and Sidious later researched and plundered to achieve their levels of knowledge? Someone accepted without question as leader beyond the grave by Sith Lords who otherwise answer to no one?
Or a shifty politican who fights exactly six Jedi, five of those before his prime and two of those battles he nearly lost?
Context, yes.
According to what source?
Wookiepedia. No, I'm kidding. It's a joke. Everyone knows Dooku taught Ragnos everything he knew when they fathered Bandon and Revan.
😂
If you interpret that quote to mean "everyone in the galaxy" had to know of the person in question, then there's no such animal: there's nothing indicating that everyone in the galaxy was aware of even Palpatine's existence. For example, the Lost Tribe of the Sith of the Fate of the Jedi series operated within the galaxy, but trapped on their world, they weren't aware of galactic developments.Clearly some in the galaxy knew of Ragnos, just like many in the galaxy knew of Palpatine.
Actually, I used the source literally and with a skeptical viewpoint, kind of like how you and others view non-Sidious related claims to power in EU. Unseen, Unheard is suddenly an Alice in Wonderland acid trip by a blind woman and totally out of context, Kreia is a bullshitter and Tobin wouldn't know the Force if it was fathering his child, but everything ever hinted or claimed about Sidious is irrefutable and furthermore this above claim was your most credible.
So when I look at it, I found a loophole; namely, that it uses the qualifier "known" by the "galaxy", implying popularity. Ragnos was only popular with the Sith and some of their later followers. He wasn't known far and wide because he didn't enjoy the same amount of publicity a Republic senator later Emperor would, right?
If popularity and political machinations were qualities we were comparing, Sidious would win hands down. If it's undisputed power, legacy and implied martial prowess, I'd say Ragnos gets the tip.
S
Reading is fundament, as Nai would say. I've posted quotes above, you've provided a few in your essay. I worked with those before and now. Areyousatisfiedomfg.
"Before"? Interesting. You seem like Janus, but Janus wasn't banned.... But Sorgo was. I'm unable to discern which of you it is. (Perhaps Illustrious?) But it matters not: Henceforth, you shall be referred to as Soranus (pronounced sore-anus) -- which is ironic, because that's exactly what you're about to get following the intense destruction at my penishands.
S
No, it proves that Sidious wasa benefactor of circumstancepolitically a manipulator of the highest caliber. This does not substantiate battle prowess, which is what we worship here in SWVF.
No, 'twas Ragnos who was a benefactor of circumstance -- he was lucky Palpatine wasn't around in that era to kick his ancient ass. lulz
S
So who is more likely to have dangerous opponents; an undisputed master of an entire empire of folks who make KotOR-era Jedi and Sith look like kids with toys? Those who created Malachor V and the infamous Force Drain? The empire founded on Sith sorcery and principles which Bane, Plageus and Sidious later researched and plundered to achieve their levels of knowledge? Someone accepted without question as leader beyond the grave by Sith Lords who otherwise answer to no one?Or a shifty politican who fights exactly six Jedi, five of those before his prime and two of those battles he nearly lost?
Context, yes.
😐
If by "Or a shifty politican who fights exactly six Jedi, five of those before his prime and two of those battles he nearly lost" what you really mean is: "A brilliant political strategist whose cognitive abilities transcend Ragnos, assembling a mighty Galactic Empire that would annihilate that of Ragnos, equipped with galactic-spanning resources capable of plundering worlds across the galaxy in search of relevant Force-related knowledge and arcana (unlike Ragnos), dedicating himself to studying the Force in all its aspects throughout his reign, and demonstrating powers and skills that are equal to that of any Sith Lord you care to name" then yes, I'd side with the latter.
Spoiler:
Besides, the Essential Guide to the Force grudgingly bequeaths a measure of strategic aptitude to Ragnos as well, pointing out that he manipulated his enemies into attacking each other, not unlike his eventual successorwho happened to do it far better than he did, on a far greater scale.
S
Wookiepedia. No, I'm kidding. It's a joke. Everyone knows Dooku taught Ragnos everything he knew when they fathered Bandon and Revan.
I'm guessing Dooku was the b1tch in that relationship, because it seems all he's good at is kneeling before his betters. (Then again, Ragnos hasn't been proven to be one of those.)
S
Actually, I used the source literally and with a skeptical viewpoint, kind of like how you and others view non-Sidious related claims to power in EU. Unseen, Unheard is suddenly an Alice in Wonderland acid trip by a blind woman and totally out of context, Kreia is a bullshitter and Tobin wouldn't know the Force if it was fathering his child, but everything ever hinted or claimed about Sidious is irrefutable and furthermore this above claim was your most credible.
If you'd even bothered to read myGideon's essay, you'd notice Ihe was objective enough to go through and point out where such quotes were flawed unlike certain Ancient Sith fanboys.
S
So when I look at it, I found a loophole; namely, that it uses the qualifier "known" by the "galaxy", implying popularity. Ragnos was only popular with the Sith and some of their later followers. He wasn't known far and wide because he didn't enjoy the same amount of publicity a Republic senator later Emperor would, right?
Well, since we all know life's a popularity contest, His Imperial Majesty must be better than Mark A. Ragnos.
S
If popularity and political machinations were qualities we were comparing, Sidious would win hands down. If it's undisputed power, legacy and implied martial prowess, I'd say Ragnos gets the tip.
Yes, but weren't you the guy who once argued Dooku was more powerful than Palpatine? Is it possible that you just don't like the guy?
😖hifty:
I'm guessing Dooku was the b1tch in that relationship, because it seems all he's good at is kneeling before his betters. (Then again, Ragnos hasn't been proven to be one of those.)
Well Ragnos had Qel'Droma and Exar Kun kneeling to him. So its not like he doesn't have his fair share of b1tches either.
Originally posted by RagingBoner
"Before"? Interesting. You seem like Janus, but Janus wasn't banned.... But Sorgo was. I'm unable to discern which of you it is. (Perhaps Illustrious?) But it matters not: Henceforth, you shall be referred to as Soranus (pronounced sore-anus) -- which is ironic, because that's exactly what you're about to get following the intense destruction at mypenishands.
I'm not anyone who's banned, you can be assured of that. I'd call you something unflattering, but with a name like Raging Boner, I think it's obvious you're compensating for something.
OH SNAP!
No, 'twas Ragnos who was a benefactor of circumstance -- he was lucky Palpatine wasn't around in that era to kick his ancient ass. lulz
ROFLMAOOMFGBBQ!
Smiley face.
😐If by "Or a shifty politican who fights exactly six Jedi, five of those before his prime and two of those battles he nearly lost" what you really mean is: "A brilliant political strategist whose cognitive abilities transcend Ragnos, assembling a mighty Galactic Empire that would annihilate that of Ragnos, equipped with galactic-spanning resources capable of plundering worlds across the galaxy in search of relevant Force-related knowledge and arcana (unlike Ragnos), dedicating himself to studying the Force in all its aspects throughout his reign, and demonstrating powers and skills that are equal to that of any Sith Lord you care to name" then yes, I'd side with the latter.
So because George Dubya Bush came to power and made a country more militant than it was, a country which outnumbered say, ancient Rome and was technologically more advanced (meaning Dubya's boys could pwn ancient Rome), this makes Dubya more accomplished and martially have more prowess than Julius Caesar?
Does not compute.
I'm guessing Dooku was the b1tch in that relationship, because it seems all he's good at is kneeling before his betters. (Then again, Ragnos hasn't been proven to be one of those.)
Ghost Ragnos doesn't have legs, dude. He can't kneel or be pushed over chairs with ease.
If you'd even bothered to readmyGideon's essay, you'd noticeIhe was objective enough to go through and point out where such quotes were flawedunlike certain Ancient Sith fanboys.
You're not talking about me, so I'll accept that you tried to be objective once.
Well, since we all know life's a popularity contest, His Imperial Majesty must be better than Mark A. Ragnos.
Mark Anthony Ragnos? Wtf?!
Yes, but weren't you the guy who once argued Dooku was more powerful than Palpatine? Is it possible that you just don't like the guy?
I'd say Coleman Trebor could beat him if it'd keep you and Lightsnake reeling in terror. Sometimes, I just have to be spiteful to find any joy at KMC. And the over-reaction justifies the act.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well Ragnos had Qel'Droma and Exar Kun kneeling to him. So its not like he doesn't have his fair share of b1tches either.
No one denies that Ragnos was both powerful and a pimp. I'm not a completely biased douche like Soranus, but His Imperial Majesty is better.
And the ladies love him. Ragnos is just gay.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'm not anyone who's banned, you can be assured of that. I'd call you something unflattering, but with a name like Raging Boner, I think it's obvious you're compensating for something.OH SNAP!
ROFLMAOOMFGBBQ!
Smiley face.
So because George Dubya Bush came to power and made a country more militant than it was, a country which outnumbered say, ancient Rome and was technologically more advanced (meaning Dubya's boys could pwn ancient Rome), this makes Dubya more accomplished and martially have more prowess than Julius Caesar?
Does not compute.
Ghost Ragnos doesn't have legs, dude. He can't kneel or be pushed over chairs with ease.
You're not talking about me, so I'll accept that you tried to be objective once.
Mark Anthony Ragnos? Wtf?!
I'd say Coleman Trebor could beat him if it'd keep you and Lightsnake reeling in terror. Sometimes, I just have to be spiteful to find any joy at KMC. And the over-reaction justifies the act.
JANUS 😠