Jin and Kazuya Vs Ryu and Akuma Street fighter Versus Tekken

Sorry for the double post.

You want feats that are demonstrated and quantified? here...

YouTube video
Akuma sinking an island with one blow.

YouTube video
At 03:48 Akuma's 2nd Impact Ending, he splits Uluru in half.

YouTube video
Akuma leaping from pacific ocean floor to ocean surface, while citting a ship apart with a kick.

YouTube video
Akuma decimating and cratering a forest with nothing but the recoil from this attack.

These are all attacks that have been done, can be seen and quantified, and are all official to Gouki's storyline, not glamorised intros or conjecture by other characters.

Are we in another capcom hating phase? It comes and goes every few years.

Yeah, but whatchagonnado? Repeating the same points every few weeks is becoming tedious... Nobody ever does research anymore...

It is KMC...

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Orly? Sorry to bother you but did you see jinpachi's ending? have you read azazel's profile? did you see Devil jin tk5 ending? they all demonstrated power that can destroy the entire planet. I love sf characters but don't underestimate tekken cast.

as for the match, it could go either way, Kazuya and Ryu seems equal to me, Jin has demonstrated that he can go toe toe with the like of Akuma (well he defeated Ogre, Heihachi, Devil Jinpachi and Azazel).

Jinpachi's ending is non canon (as is Devil Jin's), and his ending does not explicitly state that he destroyed the planet, just that he affected it in some way. Most likely wiped out all life over the course of months.
Azazel also is likely a life-wiper on the same, and he didn't exactly demonstrate any sort of planet-destroying power. He also got owned by Lars.

Akuma could destroy the entire planet if he wanted. He obviously wouldn't do it in one shot, but he could still do it. He's still more powerful than anyone in the Tekken cast.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Akuma takes this in a bloody stomp. In the Udon comics(cannon I think) Akuma mashed a meteorite that was about to crash into the earth.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Well in Raven storymode, its said Jinpachi full power can destroy the world, the proof is there

I don't see the feat where Akuma can do such a thing, would you give me a proof?

Azazel is a demonic world destroyer, his ressurection would mean the end of the world except if someone who get the devil gene kick his ass.
this vid shows what Jin and Kazuya can rly do with a power punch. Well Akuma will have a hard time against these two.

I want to help you understand though. In this type of argument, you use "feats" to prove your case. "Feats" are, ideally, indisputable examples of your character's abilities. If you can't show a someone destroying the world, we generally assume he/she can't. The same goes for Azazel or Jinpachi. As of now, they were just potentially powerful beings who got beat by humans.

On the other hand, we actually saw Akuma destroy an island. This is well beyond any Tekken character's destructive capacity, so we rank Akuma higher than Jin and Kazuya.

We're not mean people, but we want you to understand why your argument can't work. I hate pulling the "You can trust me because I don't like the guy I'm arguing for" card, but.....I am not an Akuma fan and I still think he wins. I actually like Tekken more than Street Fighter, but Akuma's feats speak for themselves. He'd wreck anyone in Tekken along with 90% of my favorite characters from other fighting games.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Are we in another capcom hating phase? It comes and goes every few years.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Yeah, but whatchagonnado? Repeating the same points every few weeks is becoming tedious... Nobody ever does research anymore...

Lol @ the underestimation of Azazel. Even during its infant years it was able to fend of against a freaking monitor lizard for a while...and doing a size comparison you can see how much of an impressive feat that is.YouTube video
1/1,000,000,000th of his current power, mind you.

In case anyone's wondering, yes Azazel is the lord demon chicken in the Tekken verse. Was worshipped as an Egyptian god and made the devil pack haunting the Mishimas.

I am talking about the Manga, Kenshiro has this techquine in the manga that allows him to go intangible and still hit people. don't know if he would beat Goku with it though. but it is one of his most cheapest techquines.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

AHAHAHAHAAA! Your relying on an intro video thats meant to glamorise the characters?! No man.... That event never happened in Tekken's storyline at all.

On-topic, its pretty much what everybody else says. Akuma is too much for any Tekken or SF character to handle in h2h.

Originally posted by SamZED
The intro is canon. So the fight on the rooftop did happen if that's what you're talking about.

It did? When? And if so, then what was Jin's point of wanting the two to clash before either was ready? That pretty much destroys the validity of his entire story in Tekken 6, including Lars's speech.

Sorry mate, but I'll take the actual story arch over the intro which is glamorised and has no place in the actual story.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
It did? When? And if so, then what was Jin's point of wanting the two to clash before either was ready? That pretty much destroys the validity of his entire story in Tekken 6, including Lars's speech.

Sorry mate, but I'll take the actual story arch over the intro which is glamorised and has no place in the actual story.

Suit yourself. The feat's still valid.

As long as it is canon, I don't see the big deal with it.

Originally posted by StyleTime
That isn't canon, but you are right; Akuma is above them regardless.

Darkstorm covered the points for me, so I'll leave it alone.

I want to help you understand though. In this type of argument, you use "feats" to prove your case. "Feats" are, ideally, indisputable examples of your character's abilities. If you can't show a someone destroying the world, we generally assume he/she can't. The same goes for Azazel or Jinpachi. As of now, they were just potentially powerful beings who got beat by humans.

On the other hand, we actually saw Akuma destroy an island. This is well beyond any Tekken character's destructive capacity, so we rank Akuma higher than Jin and Kazuya.

We're not mean people, but we want you to understand why your argument can't work. I hate pulling the "You can trust me because I don't like the guy I'm arguing for" card, but.....I am not an Akuma fan and I still think he wins. I actually like Tekken more than Street Fighter, but Akuma's feats speak for themselves. He'd wreck anyone in Tekken along with 90% of my favorite characters from other fighting games.

Honestly, I think this is an example of someone who is just new to this. Outside of internet debate forums, most people would probably accept "Dude. He's a GOD. He wins!" Heck, I used to do it myself. I knew the denotation of the word "feat", but I didn't apply it like we do here.

Originally posted by SamZED
Tekken 6 covers the war between G corp and MZ. Between Kazuya and Jin. A tiny part of it we see in the video, fits the storyline just perfectly if you ask me. As for why they fought in that particular moment is not importnant.

Suit yourself. The feat's still valid.

It covers a war... a WAR, Not Jin charging into G-Corp tower like a lunatic alone. That never happened, not in anyone's story. Like I said, glamorised introduction. It's hardly the same thing as the Tekken 5 intro, because at least some of the events in that are corroborated in the story.. I am pretty sure Jin and Kaz dropping G-Corp towers in a fistfight would have been mentioned somewhere in the characters stories somewhere, but no....

Is it now? Well then, can you demonstrate when it took place? Can you find me anything to corroborate or substantiate the feat? Gouki at least has that.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
It covers a war... a WAR, Not Jin charging into G-Corp tower like a lunatic alone. That never happened, not in anyone's story. Like I said, glamorised introduction. It's hardly the same thing as the Tekken 5 intro, because at least some of the events in that are corroborated in the story.. I am pretty sure Jin and Kaz dropping G-Corp towers in a fistfight would have been mentioned somewhere in the characters stories somewhere, but no....

Is it now? Well then, can you demonstrate when it took place? Can you find me anything to corroborate or substantiate the feat? Gouki at least has that.

We know for a fact that there was a war. And in game's main prologue, as well as Kazuya's prologue and Jin's it is stated that when it all started Kazuya announced a bounty on Jin's head. Hence in the beginning of the video we see Jin on a motorcycle being chased thoughout the city, shot at, blown up etc and he eventually reaches the tower where he faces Kazuya.

Now notice the difference.
- I see this video and it leads me to a conclusion that the events shown in it took place during the war and it makes perfect sense seeing how it fits in the storyline.
- While you see it and assume that its some random video namco pulled out of their asses for no reason and that it has nothing to do with anything and its a total accident that we see Jin being hunted (hint: bounty on his head) and the fight scene between Kazuya and Jin (hint: them being at war with ech other). Right..

You asking me to prove its canon or show the punch being mentioned in prologues is ridiculous. You dont think its canon, you better be able to back it up somehow. Because nothing.. i repeat NOTHING in those scenes controdicts the main story line. More than that it fits in it perfectly. So yeah, the fight scene is canon and the feat is very much usable. Deal with it.

Even if it is canon does it really matter? Its not their best destructive feat and is hard to gauge as a strength feat, or is below strength already shown.

I honestly did not Believe that it would become this level of a debate, I had simply asked if they CAN destroy the planet. To all of those who are saying Akuma could but wouldnt..I am not asking if someone would or will I am asking if they CAN. I am asking if it is stated that Akuma or Ryu could destroy the planet. This being said, I would also note that in Tekken it HAS been mentioned that one with the devil gene can destroy the earth, not wipe our mankind not change the earth forever(As in Jinpachi's ending) As in destroy the entire planet. As to the argument of cannon or not, the thing is jinpachi's ending is not cannon to the story but is still an outcome that would have happened and thus showing that it COULD have happened. Just because somthing DIDNT doesnt mean it COULDNT. It has even been mentioned before that the dragon ball movies despite not beign Cannon COULD have happened had events folded out that way. Look at broly for example, the movies arnt Cannon, but had events built up as such, they also would have ended as such would they not? Also in adress to the street fighter and tekken fans alike let us not forget that for combat purposes the fighters will verry obviously be on equal grounds in the game, but let us not get TOO far out of hand with these arguments because there are characters such as The Hulk, and Doomsday, Superman, Dante, Itachi characters that could most take down many if not every character from both relms at once. The Hulk and Dante being unable to die(Or stay dead) Superman doomsday and Itachi being of such power in either physical or other means that they can cap out others easily. And then there would be Broly, Goku, Vegeta...those characters that would Look upon Jin and Akuma alike and go "Really?....No...Just no." And utterly break them in two. I love tekken, I enjoy street fighter...I was simply wondering if there are characters on both ends that can destroy the planet. Twas all. I apreciate the number of responses though, didnt think it would build up so fast.

The Hulk could be beaten, the others would win. Then you have Darkstalker characters who walk all over them, so there are always other characters out there.

Originally posted by SamZED
Oh God here we go again, its always the same with you. The PUNCH wasnt mentioned in prologue, so its not canon, great...

Stop trying to play the blame game Sam. Just like before, neither you nor anyone else has proven the scene to be legit, and you use it as a crutch to maintain an argument when none exists.

Not just the punch, the entire scene didn't happen; I shall explain below.

Originally posted by SamZED
We know for a fact that there was a war. And in game's main prologue, as well as Kazuya's prologue and Jin's it is stated that when it all started Kazuya announced a bounty on Jin's head. Hence in the beginning of the video we see Jin on a motorcycle being chased thoughout the city, shot at, blown up etc and he eventually reaches the tower where he faces Kazuya.

Never denied there was a war.

Kazuya did place a bounty on Jin, thats true, however, Jin was never out and about during this time, in fact, Jin immediately announces the next King Of Iron Fist Tournament as a response, Hence he was able to safeguard himself behind the Zaibatsu and draw Kazuya to him, not charge out like a homicidal idiot and get shot to shit by MRLS and storm Kazuya's tower solo. The entire premise is that Jin has his ow military force, and had just announced the tournament, Now you have to provide a reason why he would charge Kazuya's tower in broad daylight, alone, with an enormous bounty on his head, instead of announcing the tournament, and utilising his army to neutralise Kazuya's forces to draw the man out like the story actually goes. I mean why would he charge Kaz out of turn if the entire reason for setting the war up was to draw out Azazel?

Originally posted by SamZED
Now notice the difference.
- I see this video and it leads me to a conclusion that the events shown in it took place during the war and it makes perfect sense seeing how it fits in the storyline.

No, it does not fit the storyline, nor does it fit Jin's personality or plan at the time, which is the entire point of me raising this issue.

Originally posted by SamZED
- While you see it and assume that its some random video namco pulled out of their asses for no reason and that it has nothing to do with anything and its a total accident that we see Jin being hunted (hint: bounty on his head) and the fight scene between Kazuya and Jin (hint: them being at war with ech other). Right..

If your using it as a metaphor I could accept that, but you used it as a literal feat when it has not happened before or since. I said it was an introductory video that is used to glamorise the characters, just like most introductory videos are. Your trying to pull a feat from a scene that never actually happened in story, hence why it can be disreguarded, if you want to use the feat, give me an instance of it actually happening (IE: the character actually pulling it off in story.)

Originally posted by SamZED
You asking me to prove its canon or show the punch being mentioned in prologues is ridiculous. You dont think its canon, you better be able to back it up somehow. Because nothing.. i repeat NOTHING in those scenes controdicts the main story line. More than that it fits in it perfectly. So yeah, the fight scene is canon and the feat is very much usable. Deal with it.

It's not possible to prove a negative Sam, you want the feat, you have to prove it happened, not the other way around. So as per the rules of debate, if a character has not demonstrated capable of doing the feat by rule of canon, then the character cannot perform the feat. it's simple logic, so YOU deal with it.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Stop trying to play the blame game Sam. Just like before, neither you nor anyone else has proven the scene to be legit, and you use it as a crutch to maintain an argument when none exists.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Kazuya did place a bounty on Jin, thats true, however, Jin was never out and about during this time, in fact, Jin immediately announces the next King Of Iron Fist Tournament as a response, Hence he was able to safeguard himself behind the Zaibatsu and draw Kazuya to him, not charge out like a homicidal idiot and get shot to shit by MRLS and storm Kazuya's tower solo. The entire premise is that Jin has his ow military force, and had just announced the tournament, Now you have to provide a reason why he would charge Kazuya's tower in broad daylight, alone, with an enormous bounty on his head, instead of announcing the tournament, and utilising his army to neutralise Kazuya's forces to draw the man out like the story actually goes. I mean why would he charge Kaz out of turn if the entire reason for setting the war up was to draw out Azazel?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

No, it does not fit the storyline, nor does it fit Jin's personality or plan at the time, which is the entire point of me raising this issue.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

If your using it as a metaphor I could accept that, but you used it as a literal feat when it has not happened before or since. I said it was an introductory video that is used to glamorise the characters, just like most introductory videos are. Your trying to pull a feat from a scene that never actually happened in story, hence why it can be disreguarded, if you want to use the feat, give me an instance of it actually happening (IE: the character actually pulling it off in story.)

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

It's not possible to prove a negative Sam, you want the feat, you have to prove it happened, not the other way around. So as per the rules of debate, if a character has not demonstrated capable of doing the feat by rule of canon, then the character cannot perform the feat. it's simple logic, so YOU deal with it.