Jin and Kazuya Vs Ryu and Akuma Street fighter Versus Tekken

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Sam, I don't even recall the last time I've debated with you. If it is you trying to pulll a rabit out of your crack (IE: trying to pull inconclusive feats out of your @$$) then yes, it's the same old shit... And like before, your still not providing anything.
Are you serious? Your the one trying to admit faulty logic as evidence and now your copping out. If you can't explain it, then just say so... Seriously, Corroborate the feat or GTFO. It's not oppinion as much as it is carefully deduced chain of events. Ok, now you've raised more claims, here we go again...
#1: Prove that the announcement of the tournament was not immediate as was said during both Kazuya and Jin's prologues.
#2: If Jin is aware that there is a price on his head, and made the announcement based on that fact, then why oh why did he charge out on his own to G-Tek, nearly get charblasted by rocket artillery, then charge up the tower despite all his plans to the contrary to awaken Azazel... This point is actually VERY IMPORTANT. he stated as such during the story mode. Why would he risk getting killed, or killing Kazuya for that matter before Azazel's resurrection? He had been aware of Azazel ever since Tekken 5, so any excuse you could conjure would defy this fact, as in Jin's entire reason for starting the war would be completely null and void by this one action.
Perfectly my ass, read above.... Either you havn't beaten the campaign mode, or your trying VERY hard to lie through your teeth. And I don't particularly care if I am alone in voicing my point, ad-populem is hardly a substitute for being correct.
Read above, specifically point 2, you have not taken any context into account when trying to summarise the story, it goes a hell of a lot deeper than your stating. You should try a little harder next time. If the video contradicts higher canon, then it is disreguarded unless coroborated.
You are not reading what I said, either that, or it's selective reading... I said, prove the feat happened [B]IN STORY! It DOES NOT fit the story, and contadicts major events despite your protestations. Counter my points above and you may have a case. If G-Tek HQ was damaged during a fistfight before the tournament started, but after the announcement would have been mentioned in at least one prologue. It wasn't. Why should we assume then that the event happened? It's out of character, it's uncoroborated, and it doesn't fit the story or the timeline.
I will now wait to see what excuse you'll pull out of thin air next.... [/B]

Team 2. Ryu can beat anyone of the 2 and Akuma can take'em both out at the same time.

I think too that Gouki's presence unbalances the battle too much in favor of the SF team.

Maybe Jin and Kazuya vs Ryu and Ken would have been a more balanced and interesting fight.

Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
I think too that Gouki's presence unbalances the battle too much in favor of the SF team.

Maybe Jin and Kazuya vs Ryu and Ken would have been a more balanced and interesting fight.

In that scenario I would go for Jin and Kaz. Ryu could take anyone of them on his own and win. Ken? Not so much. Without A<B<C, Ken doesn't have many showings.

It's all good tho, cuz what Ken lacks in feats and stuff, he makes up for in being the coolest motha f**ka in a fightin game. Sick character indeed. One of the OGs.

Ken has not very much feats, but I think that he's not too much worse than Ryu, or else he wouldn't respect him anymore as a rival, and be eager to have another spare fight with him. However I can see Ken lose to Jin or Kazuya.

I admit that it's just my opinion, but I think that Ryu and Ken have the same potential. What makes Ryu better is the fact that he's totally dedicated to his training, while Ken has his wife, the Master's Corporation (as we've seen in SF4, the ties that bind) and his child (as we've seen in his SF3 ending).

Originally posted by SamZED
Ive been away for weeks so excuse me for not adressing every sentence seperately. Ive never "pulled anything out of my ass". Between you and me, it has always been like this - the feat exists, but you dont like it so you try to either downplay or completely ignore it like you did when we debated "Devil within" mini-game, just because you dont like it.

Wow, you waited nearly a month to post this? And outright lies at that....

No Sam, it has NEVER been like that, but whatever floats your poor assed argument.

It's not that I don't like it, that doesn't matter. What matters is actually backing it up. Devil-Within has already proven to be non-canon, so I was right on that particular argument after all, wasn't I? Not a shred of hatred on my part was required for that.

Originally posted by SamZED
So im just gonna say this: Id love to listen to more of your assumptions, made up conclusions and judgment of what characters in your opinion should or should not have done or other so called reasons to doubt its continuity.

What did I assume anywhere in this debate? Where did I make up conclusions? Where did I cast judgement? And for the love of me where did I question continuity?

All I did, Sam, was get you to prove where the feat happened canonically, because it certainly doesn't fit with Tekken's chain of events nor Jin's plans at the time of said incident.

Originally posted by SamZED
But Id rather take namco over your opinion. And so far we have this - I do not owe you any proofs, they made a video with characters displaying that kind of power level, the video perfectly fits that particular storyline (no matter what bs you pull out of your a$$ in attempt to prove the contrary) and thus is 100% valid and usable for vs forums. You dont like it, you're entitled to your opinion.

Oh I see, so it's my oppinion that Namco says Jin was planning to fight Azazel, and in order to do this, he had to draw Kazuya into a protracted, long war to fill the world with negative energy? This directly contradicts the opening movie's portrayal of the Chain Of Events Sam, and no -I didn't bloody well make it up or BS it or pull it out of my @$$, despite what you think. Now, because the Intro is NOT canon to the storyline, hows about you stop lollygagging around and get back to the debate at hand?

Originally posted by SamZED
But excuse me and the rest of us who will keep using it because we choose common sense over your baseless conclusions like "Jin acts weird/there was no time" and other nonsense you come up with as a reason to doubt its continuity. Good day.

Until you prove it's canonicity, I will raise the issue whenever I see it. Common sense requires brains, and logical thought. You however choose blind faith without question.

And ya know, faith produced such awsome "truths" such as "The Earth is the center of the Universe" and "The World is flat." I guess these "truths" are also irrefutable in your world, right Sam?

Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
Ken has not very much feats, but I think that he's not too much worse than Ryu, or else he wouldn't respect him anymore as a rival, and be eager to have another spare fight with him. However I can see Ken lose to Jin or Kazuya.

I admit that it's just my opinion, but I think that Ryu and Ken have the same potential. What makes Ryu better is the fact that he's totally dedicated to his training, while Ken has his wife, the Master's Corporation (as we've seen in SF4, the ties that bind) and his child (as we've seen in his SF3 ending).

I agree. I liked how in SF the animated movie Bison's scientist theorized that either their robots failed to obtain their data or that Ken is holding back his full potential. They have mentioned stuff like that all the fricking time. I remember in the beginning of Udon's comics how Akuma told Ken that since he has something to lose/fear he will never be as powerful as he can be. Ryu later told Ken that it is possible that it can be the other way around with Ken's family being a trigger for him to reach greater heights. Viper also commented on Ken's prowess in the SF4 anime.

It is just that Ken will always be 2nd. At least they gave him an excuse with him actually having a life instead of just writting him off as "Sorry you just don't have what it takes"; a treatment many rivals suffer.

Yes. I liked what they've done to Ryu's friends-rivals.

Sagat: post retcon he's a fierce but honorable warrior, who's 100% a match for Ryu (actually, it was Ryu who managed to become a match to Sagat, since SF1 Sagat > SF1 Ryu).

Sakura: she's obviously weaker than Ryu, but she's very young and she didn't recieved proper training. She's incredibly gifted but I don't think her as a Mary Sue. I rather find Sakura very cute.

And Ken. He's s slightly worse than Ryu, but 'cause he's not a "full time warrior" like his friend.

Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
Yes. I liked what they've done to Ryu's friends-rivals.

Sagat: post retcon he's a fierce but honorable warrior, who's 100% a match for Ryu (actually, it was Ryu who managed to become a match to Sagat, since SF1 Sagat > SF1 Ryu).

Originally posted by Meioh_Hades

Sakura: she's obviously weaker than Ryu, but she's very young and she didn't recieved proper training. She's incredibly gifted but I don't think her as a Mary Sue. I rather find Sakura very cute.

Originally posted by Meioh_Hades

And Ken. He's s slightly worse than Ryu, but 'cause he's not a "full time warrior" like his friend.

Gif madness in celebration of Capcom not making everyone job to the poster boy and show proper respect to it's characters.

Even is respected nowadays.

We all know that DAN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything 😄

Capcom "respects" the characters cuz SF is the only fighter I can think of where every character has a notable fan base and they don't wanna piss anbody off. Even Ingrid. I never thought I would see so many people complain about Karin, Elena, and Rolento not being in a SF game.

I agree. Wish Karin made it to the game.

lol she seems so irrelevant to me, so does Rolento. Why does everyone want them?!

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Wow, you waited nearly a month to post this? And outright lies at that....

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

No Sam, it has been like that, but whatever floats your poor assed argument.

It's not that I don't like it, that doesn't matter. What matters is actually backing it up. Devil-Within has already proven to be non-canon, so I was right on that particular argument after all, wasn't I? Not a shred of hatred on my part was required for that.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

What did I [b]assume anywhere in this debate? Where did I make up conclusions? Where did I cast judgement? And for the love of me where did I question continuity?[/B]

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

All I did, Sam, was get you to prove where the feat happened canonically, because it certainly doesn't fit with Tekken's chain of events nor Jin's plans at the time of said incident.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Oh I see, so it's my opinion that Namco says Jin was planning to fight Azazel, and in order to do this, he had to draw Kazuya into a protracted, long war to fill the world with negative energy? This directly contradicts the opening movie's portrayal of the Chain Of Events Sam, and no -I didn't bloody well make it up or BS it or pull it out of my @$$, despite what you think. Now, because the Intro is NOT canon to the storyline, hows about you stop lollygagging around and get back to the debate at hand?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Until you prove it's canonicity, I will raise the issue whenever I see it. Common sense requires brains, and logical thought. You however choose blind faith without question.

And ya know, faith produced such awsome "truths" such as "The Earth is the center of the Universe" and "The World is flat." I guess these "truths" are also irrefutable in your world, right Sam?

Originally posted by SamZED
As I said, was away. Although I am surprised that one month has passed and no one else bothered to respond to your nonsense.

Probably because nobody else except for you thinks it's nonsense

Originally posted by SamZED
Um.. yeah it has. Sorry that you dont remember. I can refresh. The argument basically went this way.
Me: There are reasons to believe the events really did take place.
You: Prove it.
Me: Well, the prologue of the game basically says "these events really happen and take place sometime after the explosion in hon-maru” which we know is canon.
You: It doesnt prove anything because [b]I think Jin had no reasons to go and look for his mother and he used a wrong move during the gameplay.
Me: facepalm2
So yeah, that's your style of debating right there - Deside something for the character and take it as a fact.[/B]

No Sam, What I did was definitively prove that A, the shit you tried to admit as evidence flies in the face of known plot, and your doing it again here. The technique stuff was simply icing on the cake. The Prologue in question is describing Devil Within itself, how does it's existence justify it's own canonicity?

Originally posted by SamZED
Lets see. You made an argument based on a) You disagree with the way Jin acted, because in your opinion it was... wait for it... unreasonable to go after Kazuya. And b) You assumed that there was no time for the chase and fight to happen because tournament was announced immediately. Never mind that it takes time to send all the invitations, then there are fighters coming from ALL OVER THE WORLD which also takes time. Heck, even if the tournament started the very next day there'd still be sh!tload of time for all that to happen. But never mind that, DZ is in doubt because it doesnt go according to his script so there's no way in hell that could've happened.

A: It's not my oppinion.... I just bloody well said that thats Tekken 6 plot you liar.

B: Jin BROADCAST the announcement GLOBALLY directly in response to the bounty. Your ignorance is blindingly obvious... Besides, Jin would be the one needing to take time to write the letters if that where the case, not Kazuya. Oh, and the fact that he has ownership of frigging labs and office buildings means he could mass print the letters, he certainly didn't need to sit at a desk and personally handwrite any invitations. Your being retarded Sam.

and C: Even if he did have the time, you never answered any point I raised above before you went on your break, you ignoring those means your simply trolling on purpose, and thusly breaking the rules, again.

Originally posted by SamZED
Doesnt fit with Jin's plans... Yeah, that's exactly what I was talking about above. Sorry, Jin made up that decision in a hurry so he didnt have time to discuss it with you.

Copout if there ever was one. Answer my points above or concede.

Originally posted by SamZED
No, that's not your opinion. Jin starting a war is a fact stated by namco. The rest however is nothing but your opinion. Because you [b]assume that that somehow interfers with the possibility of the chase/fight happening because you assume there was no time and you think Jin acted weird. What was the expression? "Grasping at straws" I believe?[/B]

No dude, it's called logic. Your entire premise hinges on the fact that Jin would suddenly go off in a tirade and try to end everything he fought for since Tekken 5, simply because you want 1 little feat to be admissable as evidence.

Originally posted by SamZED
Logical thought is a good thing. Unfortunately some people do not know the difference between "logical thought" and "vivid imagination", eh DZ? They come up with nonsense and start believing in it themselves. Raise it as much as you like. Even better, write a fanfic. Why stop with me, tell the rest of the world how in your opinion Jin should act. Im telling you, people will enjoy your stories. Just dont expect anyone to take it seriously when you do raise the issue. As for the [b]actual story all the proofs anyone could possibly need are right there in the video. Jin having a bounty on his head? Check. Jin and Kazuya being at war? Check. They wrote a script for the game and stayed 100% true to it in that video. Sure there WAS one way namco could have made it even more obvious - by placing a huge glowing "it's canon" sign in the middle of screen during the video, but I guess they just do not develop games for mentally retarded people. [/B]

Your assumption that the intro video is also 100% accurate to canon storyline is a much more glowing representation of spindoctor tactics and fanfic writing. I don't support a blatantly obvious self contradiction like you do. It was not my oppinion that Jin started a war, it's not my oppinion that he needed to prolong the war to expose Azazel, and it is not my oppinion that he needs Kazuya Alive to do this. What my oppinion is, is that that video contradicts these facts, and that oppinion is backed by proof, thusly, it is no longer an oppinion, but a fact.

Thus, Your oppinion = the video portrays canon feat.

Whereas My fact = the feat displayed in the video did not happen canonically, and thus cannot be used as representation of the feat therein.

Fact>oppinion, therefor, you have lost this point.

I just love when fanboys, in total absence of any proof, just say something like "I'm sure that X can beat Y". But I can think "I'm sure that crimson_2010 is just a Tekken fanboy" 😛

I don't want to discuss with someone who can't even bring good argument, so please pipe down "sf fanboy". I like street fighter over tekken but unlike you i'm not so fond of "Akuma" or "Devil", i'm just impartial. Besides, i'm a Dead or Alive fanboy you ignorant😆

Do.... you.... not.... read.... what.... I.... post?! No, seriously. All you did was return to previously shot down points and say "No, your wrong because I say so!" Not one attempt to even read the posts of this thread... I swear this is tedious.... mad

Why? because you think you're right on everything? Lol dude i call it bullshit, you argued on your own opinion with your "fact". The way you're pissed off proof that you gimme some valide point ^^.

The terms "Wanted to" and "succeeded in accomplishing" or "Can do" are not interchangable. You cannot give a fat based on a "what if" scenario. The characters actually have to have accomplished the feat, for the feat to be logically enabled.

It's not my fault if you haven't played the story mode otherwise you'll understand that Jinpachi final form = end of the world... go watch Wang Jinrey's, Raven's and lei wulong's stories. Besides your answered your own question, if Jin didn't beat Jinpachi, his ending would be real and thus the text after say it all

Zaffina's profile is also largely conjecture at this point because she feared Azazel's revival. This only demonstrates that she had no chance. Dude, You previously stated that only DG users could defeat Azazel, which is patentely wrong, as demonstrated by Lars who does ot have the DG. Mishima blood had stuff all to do with it.

LMAO, Namco> your assumption. Lars beat Azazel, it's called PIS besides you don't understand what Jin was talking about. Only DG users can defeat and kill him. Lars fail to kill him cuz he protected his ass when Azazel began to shine and no matter who beat Aazel, he'll come back till A DG user kill him. You're simply as ignorant as Lars was....

What does the Tekken 5 intro have to do with the canonicity of the Tekken 6 one? And unless someone can reconcile the two points I raised earlier in the thread, then guess what, it's conjecture and a glamorised intro. not a legitimate feat. Nobody here has posted a single logical reconciliation bitween known plot and those events in the intro.

Rofl dude srsly? For you tekken 5 intro isn't canon at all, wtf? i just wanted to show the supernatural force of Kazuya and if he can almost ripped Jack-4 in half with a single punch therefore Ryu would have a hard time dealing with Kazuya's power. Don't forget this is a versus thread where we can show every feats for every characters, so i did it with Kazuya.
Well Namco > you again

I didn't see Jin or Kaz on a planetary level either exept in glamorised what ifs. I'm fairly certain I can find many fanfics which has Akuma dominating DBZ characters, and that would be just as legit as your so-called "proof".

Simply pitiful, you have lost it dude... Fanfic? 😆 my proof is based on this versus thread and what Namco show you. it's you who started all this Akuma bursting island therefore > instant tekkenverse!!!

Which is the exact reason why you should not use the title to describe Ogre and then give that as a reason why it's such a good showing. Especially since Ogre is essentially featless.

Ogre featless : he beated the **** outta Tekkenforces, he absorbed strong fighters's soul, he awakened Mokujin ( he awaken when the world is in danger). Besides the sentence you've quoted was mean for Akuma 😖

And again, I ask for proof, becuase akuma's established feats would mean he turns Jin into fishpaste and red vapour in a single punch.

Yeah that's why Ryu is still alive? If Ryu can tanked it, why not Jin? or maybe you want to see your sf Char win by any cost. you're simply ridiculous by a mile.

Ryu tanked that punch and Jin wouldn't, for the simple reason that Ryu has more endurance that Jin.

It seems that YOU are the one that want to see your Tekken chars win by any cost. You're simply ridicolous by a parsec.

Oh look, another one who decided to wait 4 weeks to try and get the last say.... Pitiful.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Why? because you think you're right on everything? Lol dude i call it bullshit, you argued on your own opinion with your "fact". The way you're pissed off proof that you gimme some valide point ^^.

I at least admit what I am at fault, unlike some of the ego driven pig headed debaters around here... And no, I'm not at fault here, nice try.

At least try to structure a sentence properly dude, your drivel here doesn't constitute an argument... I can barely read your ramblings.

So again, like I asked Sam, Where in the hell did I state an oppinion?!?! Nothing I said as ever conjecture, suspicion or assumption. What I Asked for was the intro's canonicity to known Tekken 6 plot, and raised 2 points to that effect, and neither of you answered a Single. Bloody. One. You either cannot prove it and are arrogantly trolling to try and get me to back off, or your both as idiotic as bricks.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
It's not my fault if you haven't played the story mode otherwise you'll understand that Jinpachi final form = end of the world... go watch Wang Jinrey's, Raven's and lei wulong's stories. Besides your answered your own question, if Jin didn't beat Jinpachi, his ending would be real and thus the text after say it all

You ignorant....

Ok, I'll humor this little facade... Describe to me HOW Jinpachi "Ends the world". And if you come up with the DBZ style pop planet like a pimple, I am going to demand evidence.

Now, the humor is over. Jinpachi never demonstrated this supposed "Planet Bust" power anyway, why even bother to bring it up?

Originally posted by crimson_2010
LMAO, Namco> your assumption. Lars beat Azazel, it's called PIS besides you don't understand what Jin was talking about. Only DG users can defeat and kill him. Lars fail to kill him cuz he protected his ass when Azazel began to shine and no matter who beat Aazel, he'll come back till A DG user kill him. You're simply as ignorant as Lars was....

Did I say Lars "Killed" Azazel you reject? Read again, I said he defeated him. As in he knocked Azazel clean off his clock and made him eat temple floor. Do you deny this?

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Rofl dude srsly? For you tekken 5 intro isn't canon at all, wtf? i just wanted to show the supernatural force of Kazuya and if he can almost ripped Jack-4 in half with a single punch therefore Ryu would have a hard time dealing with Kazuya's power. Don't forget this is a versus thread where we can show every feats for every characters, so i did it with Kazuya.
Well Namco > you again

Your reading comprehension difficculty is REALLY starting to annoy me kid... And if your doing it on purpose, I will ignore your future posts.

Point out to me where I said anything relating to Tekken 5 intro if you please.

Also, since you just made a positive claim, I'll ask you why Ryu would have trouble with Jacks in any fasion, when he deals with a guy who... ya know... Pile Drives an Island under the sea with his fist!

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Simply pitiful, you have lost it dude... Fanfic? 😆 my proof is based on this versus thread and what Namco show you. it's you who started all this Akuma bursting island therefore > instant tekkenverse!!!

You really are retarded.... There is no two ways about it... You say that this thread is evidence for your argument within the thread? How the f*@k does that make sense? :/

Namco alluded to it perhaps, but it never happened, it's inadmissable. What_Ifs are NOT applicable in a theoretical debate UNLESS stated so in the OP as per forum rules. if you want to spin that way, then why not bring in all sorts of non-canon then? Anything made by Capcom to do with Ryu eh? Hows about soloing Galactus?

See? This kind thing is inadmissable PRECISELY because of situations like this.

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Ogre featless : he beated the **** outta Tekkenforces, he absorbed strong fighters's soul, he awakened Mokujin ( he awaken when the world is in danger). Besides the sentence you've quoted was mean for Akuma 😖

He defeated a bunch of armed men, which is something just about anybody with metahuman powers can do right? Mhmm, Soul Sucking.... 1 person... The circumstances are unknown, for all we know, Jun could have been cherrypicked, and besides, she wasn't exacly top tier in Tekken 2... Raising Mokujin? A feat which has been repeated at least 3 times since, and has no actual combat application anyway.

Ok, Your the only one who tried to use the title "God" to try and buff Ogre's image Crimson, I used no titles to describe Akuma. Your the one who harped on about Devils and Gods as though it meant something... so why was that sentence directed aGt a character that it never applied to?

Originally posted by crimson_2010
Yeah that's why Ryu is still alive? If Ryu can tanked it, why not Jin? or maybe you want to see your sf Char win by any cost. you're simply ridiculous by a mile.

Maybe it's because Ryu CAN tank such a hit, while nobody in Tekken has demonstrated the capacity to do so. So I do not see why a durability feat Ryu has demonstrated can apply to Jin, who has not demonstrated anywhere near as much durability. So, with logic and the demonstrated canon feats on my side, I don't see how I am ridiculous by any stretch, you and SamZed on the otherhand are WAY out of line, and by refusing to substantiate yourselves even remotely by answering my 2 raised points above, you two are simply trolling to try and save your asses.

About Jun's fate

Katsuhiro Harada, the director of Tekken, confirms that Jun is not dead, and the only absolutly killed characters are the first King and the first Armor King.

So Ogre has NOT absorbed her soul or killed her.

Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
Ryu tanked that punch and Jin wouldn't, for the simple reason that Ryu has more endurance that Jin.

It seems that YOU are the one that want to see your Tekken chars win by any cost. You're simply ridicolous by a parsec.

Where is your proof tha Ryu has more endurance Jin?
No argument = you fail. Well I said Ryu tanked it but i'm not so sure cuz Akuma was holding back against him.
I've at least one feat for Jin : during the end of tekken 6 where he tanked Azazel's laser+ the big explosion after falcon punched him, that's about it. I'm not sure if Ryu can tank that. I'm prolly sure that Ryu can't even tank the nuke Heihachi managed to survive or falling over a cliff.
Oh and LOL i don't want to see Tekken char win, i just said they would put up a good fight....
I'll just ignore you by now, jane!

Darkstorm : Bloody hell!! I'm tired of your childish game, i'll just stop here cause we can't comprenhend each other and you're simply a ignorant denial person. Just grow the **** up
Like someone says :"the sage embraces the silence, the fool can be heard for miles".
Oh and i've a life behind my computer unlike others, so don't be surprised.