Windu vs dooku

Location: An ancient roman arena

Postions: two different corners of the arena

Who wins?

Mace Windu is perhaps Dooku's equal on neutral grounds.

according to dooku (who also though he was more powerful than yoda....)

Nope, this is obviously not written in anyone's point of view:

As Yoda released Whirry from his mind's hold, and let her spill gently onto the flagstones far below, the tip of Dooku's lightsaber scored a burning line across his shoulder. The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible—wickedness cut in red light.

If you can prove that Dark Rendezvous is Dooku's diary then I'll admit it's according to Dooku.

i replied once.

Windu. Vaapad gives him an advantage against any Sith, and heck he was holding his own just fine against Dooku's boss.

Do Roman arenas have corners? I always think of them as round.

Again, depending on your outlook a circular arena can have either zero corners or an infinite number of corners. With an infinite number of points (each with zero area, of course) on that line, there is an infinite probability that the two combatants will spawn on top of one another (it would look like shearing from a videogame) and then undergo nuclear fusion.

Dooku Windu, you do voodoo.

Mace > Palpatine > Dooku.

If Dooku were a practitioner of the light side of the force, he an Mace would likely stalemate. However, since Dooku channels copius amounts of the dark side when he battles, Vaapad would give Mace a decisive edge.

Woah! You changed your avatar.

Am I alone in thinking that Krayt looks a lot cooler without the armor?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Am I alone in thinking that Krayt looks a lot cooler without the armor?

I like both looks, but he does look more focused without it. Like he's just as dangerous, but he keeps it within him more.

Hi,

At first - sry for my bad english, i've hope that you can understeand what i mean.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mace > Palpatine > Dooku.

If Dooku were a practitioner of the light side of the force, he an Mace would likely stalemate. However, since Dooku channels copius amounts of the dark side when he battles, Vaapad would give Mace a decisive edge.

Its bad point in my opinion. Mace was a master of vaapad, and Palpatine was master of Juyo. I personally belive, that vaapad is ultimate form of juyo, so in this point Mace has an advantage to Palpatine, and he was probably the best counter vs him.
So ok... Mace > Palpatine in saber combat.

But Dooku < Palpatine? Can you prove it? Overall - ofcourse, Palpatine was a far better (Lucas said that's Dooku was about 80% of Palpatine's streght?). But in pure saber fight? I'm not so sure... Dooku was Makashi master - the best fighting style for duel. Canon scources put Dooku on the same level with Yoda and Windu.
In fact Palpatine lost saber fight with Windu, and probably was weaker duelist then Yoda - at the end of their fight he attacked him only by force, and he dont use his saber anymore (mby he lost it, or something?).
So if Yoda and Winu can fight Palpatine with sabers, why Dooku wouldn't?

And finally - Dooku vs Mace...

"Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground." - Yoda - Dark Rendezvous

"In his day, Mace was one of the best lightsaber fighters of the Jedi order. It was said only two opponents ever bested him -- Yoda, and Dooku." - databank

So - its possible that Mace won a some sparings with Dooku, and its possible that he wont. And Dooku beasted him once, or more times...
Its like... x+1 vs y
x - duels won by Dooku
y - duels won by Mace

And in my opinion Vaapad doesn't give advantage vs Dooku...
Dooku was the sith - its true. But he fight more like jedi... he doesn't use an emotional techniques like Maul or Palpatine, and doestnt use his anger and fury like others Sith Lords...

Originally posted by Lineael
Hi,

At first - sry for my bad english, i've hope that you can understeand what i mean.

Its bad point in my opinion. Mace was a master of vaapad, and Palpatine was master of Juyo. I personally belive, that vaapad is ultimate form of juyo, so in this point Mace has an advantage to Palpatine, and he was probably the best counter vs him.
So ok... Mace > Palpatine in saber combat.

But Dooku < Palpatine? Can you prove it? Overall - ofcourse, Palpatine was a far better (Lucas said that's Dooku was about 80% of Palpatine's streght?). But in pure saber fight? I'm not so sure... Dooku was Makashi master - the best fighting style for duel. Canon scources put Dooku on the same level with Yoda and Windu.
In fact Palpatine lost saber fight with Windu, and probably was weaker duelist then Yoda - at the end of their fight he attacked him only by force, and he dont use his saber anymore (mby he lost it, or something?).
So if Yoda and Winu can fight Palpatine with sabers, why Dooku wouldn't?

And finally - Dooku vs Mace...

"Among the other Jedi, [B]perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground." - Yoda - Dark Rendezvous

"In his day, Mace was one of the best lightsaber fighters of the Jedi order. It was said only two opponents ever bested him -- Yoda, and Dooku." - databank

So - its possible that Mace won a some sparings with Dooku, and its possible that he wont. And Dooku beasted him once, or more times...
Its like... x+1 vs y
x - duels won by Dooku
y - duels won by Mace

And in my opinion Vaapad doesn't give advantage vs Dooku...
Dooku was the sith - its true. But he fight more like jedi... he doesn't use an emotional techniques like Maul or Palpatine, and doestnt use his anger and fury like others Sith Lords... [/B]

1. Lucas stated that ANAKIN was 80 percent of Sidious, NOT Dooku.

2. Besting Mace Windu, a Vaapad user in a sparring contest is FAR FAR FAR different than in all-out combat. I seriously doubt Mace Windu utilized Vaapad during a mere sparring contest, seeing as how it was only to be used when absolutely needed, NOT for casual use.

3. Vaapad is an advantage aginst all opponents, not just darksiders. Your comment demonstrates a fundamental flaw in your understanding of Vaapad.

4. I have no doubt that Mace Windu would lay one proper smack down after another on Dooku's candy ass.

Originally posted by Lineael
Its bad point in my opinion. Mace was a master of vaapad, and Palpatine was master of Juyo. I personally belive, that vaapad is ultimate form of juyo, so in this point Mace has an advantage to Palpatine, and he was probably the best counter vs him.
So ok... Mace > Palpatine in saber combat.

But Dooku < Palpatine? Can you prove it? Overall - ofcourse, Palpatine was a far better (Lucas said that's Dooku was about 80% of Palpatine's streght?). But in pure saber fight? I'm not so sure... Dooku was Makashi master - the best fighting style for duel. Canon scources put Dooku on the same level with Yoda and Windu.
In fact Palpatine lost saber fight with Windu, and probably was weaker duelist then Yoda - at the end of their fight he attacked him only by force, and he dont use his saber anymore (mby he lost it, or something?).
So if Yoda and Winu can fight Palpatine with sabers, why Dooku wouldn't?

And finally - Dooku vs Mace...

"Among the other Jedi, [B]perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground." - Yoda - Dark Rendezvous

"In his day, Mace was one of the best lightsaber fighters of the Jedi order. It was said only two opponents ever bested him -- Yoda, and Dooku." - databank

So - its possible that Mace won a some sparings with Dooku, and its possible that he wont. And Dooku beasted him once, or more times...
Its like... x+1 vs y
x - duels won by Dooku
y - duels won by Mace

And in my opinion Vaapad doesn't give advantage vs Dooku...
Dooku was the sith - its true. But he fight more like jedi... he doesn't use an emotional techniques like Maul or Palpatine, and doestnt use his anger and fury like others Sith Lords... [/B]

Vaapad isn't just a form of combat, it is a state of mind - so comparing it to Juyo as though they are one in the same is extremely faulty. Through Vaapad, Mace is able to perpetually channel his opponent's [dark] energies into himself, and redirect them back at his opponent (thus completing a 'superconducting loop'😉... THAT is how he beat Palpatine, and THAT is why he would beat an opponent who is inferior to Palpatine (ie. Dooku.)

Originally posted by Galan007
+1 for completely ignoring what Vaapad does.

Vaapad isn't just a form of combat, it is a state of mind - so comparing it to Juyo as though they are one in the same is extremely faulty. Through Vaapad, Mace is able to perpetually channel his opponent's [dark] energies into himself, and redirect them back at his opponent (thus completing a 'superconducting loop'😉... THAT is how he beat Palpatine, and THAT is why he would beat an opponent who is inferior to Palpatine (ie. Dooku.)

Thank you - and not only his opponents dark energies, but his own as well.

Originally posted by Galan007
+1 for completely ignoring what Vaapad does.

Vaapad isn't just a form of combat, it is a state of mind - so comparing it to Juyo as though they are one in the same is extremely faulty. Through Vaapad, Mace is able to perpetually channel his opponent's [dark] energies into himself, and redirect them back at his opponent (thus completing a 'superconducting loop'😉... THAT is how he beat Palpatine, and THAT is why he would beat an opponent who is inferior to Palpatine (ie. Dooku.)

Wait, wait.... we still talk about saber fight between this two(windu-sidious)? Or overall? If overall...
There is a few group of people with diffrent opinions about some duels...
I personally think that Windu was better then Palpatine in saber fight (and here Windu with vaapad only wasn't strong enough to win, he needs a shatterpoint), but in force? In my opinion when Palpatine attacks Windu with force lightning, it wasn't a real fight... it was fake, an art for Anakin.

Originally posted by Lineael
Wait, wait.... we still talk about saber fight between this two(windu-sidious)? Or overall? If overall...
There is a few group of people with diffrent opinions about some duels...
I personally think that Windu was better then Palpatine in saber fight (and here Windu with vaapad only wasn't strong enough to win, he needs a shatterpoint), but in force? In my opinion when Palpatine attacks Windu with force lightning, it wasn't a real fight... it was fake, an art for Anakin.

The same would happen to Dooku in this battle. His dark sided powers would only serve to fuel Vaapad/Mace, thereby perpetuating his defeat.

The novel makes it clear that Sidious and Mace Windu were equals with the saber. Mace Windu won only because he has shatterpoint.