Originally posted by Galan007
The same would happen to Dooku in this battle. His dark sided powers would only serve to fuel Vaapad/Mace, thereby perpetuating his defeat.
Agree here 🙂
Vaapad was great vs Juyo, dark side force's attacks etc. Anway Dooku probably wont be using his powers versus Mace... It might be a saber duel (both of them were more a fenciers then force users... anway Dooku was great in both categories).
And Dooku has a little advantage in saber duel in my opinion.... coz "Mace Windu is perhaps Dooku's equal on neutral grounds."
Originally posted by Lineael
Agree here 🙂
Vaapad was great vs Juyo, dark side force's attacks etc. Anway Dooku probably wont be using his powers versus Mace... It might be a saber duel (both of them were more a fenciers then force users... anway Dooku was great in both categories).And Dooku has a little advantage in saber duel in my opinion.... coz "Mace Windu is perhaps Dooku's equal on neutral grounds."
Don't forget the qualifier - 'ONLY' - meaning that other Jedi other than Mace or Yoda are possibly on par with Dooku.
Here is the quote:
Among the other Jedi, perhaps ONLY Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible — wickedness cut in red light.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Don't forget the qualifier - [b]'ONLY' - meaning that other Jedi other than Mace or Yoda are possibly on par with Dooku.[/i] [/B]
Yeah, i know. And? I agree that Windu and Dooku was equal... Personally I think, that Makashi would be better counter to Vaapad, then Vaapad to Makashi + Dooku has a more experience. That's all.
Originally posted by Galan007
The only Shatterpoint that was referenced during Mace and Palpatine's battle, was Anakin -- and him being present is certainly not why Mace won... "Turning the Shadow's fear into a weapon" is how he prevailed in the end.
Just read it your right. However, the novel makes it clear that Mace Widnu and Sidious were dead even. Neither was superior to the other and this was only due to Vaapad's superconducting loop.
Originally posted by ares834
Just read it your right. However, the novel makes it clear that Mace Widnu and Sidious were dead even. Neither was superior to the other and this was only due to Vaapad's superconducting loop.
No, the novel makes it clear that WITHOUT Mace's shatterpoint ability, they would have continued to battle without end. Guess what? Mace has shatterpoint though, so they are not equal.
Originally posted by Galan007
+1 for completely ignoring what Vaapad does.Vaapad isn't just a form of combat, it is a state of mind - so comparing it to Juyo as though they are one in the same is extremely faulty. Through Vaapad, Mace is able to perpetually channel his opponent's [dark] energies into himself, and redirect them back at his opponent (thus completing a 'superconducting loop'😉... THAT is how he beat Palpatine, and THAT is why he would beat an opponent who is inferior to Palpatine (ie. Dooku.)
+1 for ignoring what a superconductor does.
It offers zero resistance to a(n electric) current flowing through it. So a "superconducting loop" would be a loop in which a certain form of energy (in this case "dark side force energy"😉 passes through again and again and again without meeting any resistance.
How exactly does that help Mace to win?
It doesn't. It merely prevents that he is getting affected by the Dark Side energies of his opponent and enables him to utilize his own dark feelings. The first doesn't result in a disadvantage for his opponent, while the second was the prerequisite for utilizing Vaapad, so it has always been done when Mace Windu sparred with Dooku. The same is the case for Windu's Shatterpoint ability, which was the real deciding factor in fighting Sidious.
So, as it seems, the two would still be equal in terms of blade work (since they've both increased their skill during the Clone Wars), yet Dooku has demonstrated the ability to survive on his own against Windu and Kenobi ("Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Republic Heroes"😉. He seems to be a superior tactician (in the duelling department) in comparison to Windu, and he's definitely better in encorporating force attacks into his fencing. Add the fact that he will probably attempt to use dirty tricks, and I think he would defeat Windu more often than not, as long as they are standing on equal ground.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
What the hell is this?
He is defeated in the end, yet still escapes.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
What the hell is this?
The battle is gameplay mostly, so all that can be determined is that eventually Mace and Kenobi overcame him. His Force showings are pretty uber, however.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
That's the scene I assumed you were talking about. Honestly, the fact that the entire fight is gameplay, and the fact that there's no indication of time, makes the scene almost irrelevant- well ninja'd fo rthe most part.And yeah, I was impressed by the TK he used there as well.
How does time matter? Windu had made up his mind and decided to kill Dooku, when they should meet again. Obviously, he isn't capable of doing this fast, given that the duo didn't cut the Count into pieces within seconds.
That aside: The TK was pretty impressive. Apparently, he's also responsible for the destruction of the platform (with lightning of his being reflected back).
Originally posted by Borbarad
How does time matter? Windu had made up his mind and decided to kill Dooku, when they should meet again. Obviously, he isn't capable of doing this fast, given that the duo didn't cut the Count into pieces within seconds.
ANH Obi-Wan could probably "hold his own" against RotS Dooku for 2 seconds.
If you have no idea how long the fight lasted then it's meaningless. Dooku being able to hold his own against Mace and Obi-Wan for 5 seconds before running away/fight interrupted is not impressive in the least.