Well its not like its hard to check. 😬
Spoiler:
just give it a moment.
Edit: Piece o' shit ruining my condesension!
Well its not like its hard to check. 😬
Spoiler:
just give it a moment.
Edit: Piece o' shit ruining my condesension!
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
So because the so-called script has "laser sword" in it, it is automatically written by him? I should remember this for my future fanfiction, I may pass it on as "written by GL".
No.
It's valid because those exact words can be found in "Star Wars: Episode III: Revenge of the Sith - The Illustrated Screenplay" on page 33.
Btw, why does he even do that? Does he call blasters, laser shooters?
Because lightsabers aren't sabers?
Originally posted by BorbaradYou ignored John Knoll.
All John Knoll said is that Sidious was exerting himself to his limit. But so was Mace.. Hence the screaming, and the statement from the ROTS novel "This was beyond Vapaad"
Originally posted by Borbarad
You contradict Lucas own script.
Well thats the original script. But Lucas changed that in favour of Mace overpowering a Sidious who stopped firing and was pretending to be weak. Lucas changed his mind, which brings into question the canonicity of that original chain of events, which also contradicts the final ROTS novel "This was beyond Vapaad"
Originally posted by Borbarad
what exact events in the scene Lucas was refering to.
Lucas's words from that commentary were "this scene always started with Mace overpowering Sidious, then Sidious zapping him, then Mace deflecting those rays"
So he's given the order of the sequence. First Mace Overpowered him. Then Sids shoots Mace with Lightning, and then Mace deflects those rays with his Saber.. Hence the original Overpowering clearly refers to the kick in the face, which put Sids on the Floor, not the Overpowering of Sids Lightning.
Also this:
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Borbarad do you have any quotes apart the one in Dark Rendezvous which suggests Mace and Dooku are equals as of the Clone Wars?Because your argument seems to be that since we know Dooku and Mace are equals, and Mace beat Sidious, that so would Dooku. As im not sure that the one quote from DR which says "perhaps" qualifies as proof that Dooku and Mace are equals.
Also would that DR quote not also be from the third narrative perspective you've been talking about i.e. Dooku's opinion??
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
All John Knoll said is that Sidious was exerting himself to his limit. But so was Mace.. Hence the screaming, and the statement from the ROTS novel "This was beyond Vapaad"
And who won? Mace. Thanks for playing.
Well thats the original script. But Lucas changed that in favour of Mace overpowering a Sidious who stopped firing and was pretending to be weak. Lucas changed his mind, which brings into question the canonicity of that original chain of events, which also contradicts the final ROTS novel "This was beyond Vapaad"
Really? I wonder if anybody favoring this opinion has ever listened to the commentary without bias. Lucas words are: "This sequence always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine and Palpatine using his powers to destroy Mace and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber. And it always was that Anakin cut the lightsaber out of his hand. But this part where he pretends to be weak [referring to the lightning] and lose his power was something I added later."
Emphasis mine.
Lucas, in the commentary, again proclaims that Sidious used the lightning in order to destroy Mace - to kill him. Even in the final version of the film. So this is canon. He also says he "added" something, kind of contradicting the idea that he took away something from the original version.
Lucas's words from that commentary were "this scene always started with Mace overpowering Sidious, then Sidious zapping him, then Mace deflecting those rays"So he's given the order of the sequence. First Mace Overpowered him. Then Sids shoots Mace with Lightning, and then Mace deflects those rays with his Saber.. Hence the original Overpowering clearly refers to the kick in the face, which put Sids on the Floor, not the Overpowering of Sids Lightning.
Since the movie shows Mace overcoming Sidious in the force lightning contest, with the script stating the same and Lucas confirming Sidious inability to destroy Mace, I have to say that you're wrong, while I am and was correct.
Borbarad do you have any quotes apart the one in Dark Rendezvous which suggests Mace and Dooku are equals as of the Clone Wars?
In fact, I have this:
"The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student!" - Yoda, Dark Rendevouz.
Which is Yoda suggesting that Dooku is above all other students of the Jedi temple he has seen, including Mace Windu.
Because your argument seems to be that since we know Dooku and Mace are equals, and Mace beat Sidious, that so would Dooku. As im not sure that the one quote from DR which says "perhaps" qualifies as proof that Dooku and Mace are equals.Also would that DR quote not also be from the third narrative perspective you've been talking about i.e. Dooku's opinion??
As a matter of fact, we don't know if Mace and Dooku were equals. The "perhabs" in the quote, especially considering the above statement from the same source as context, that Mace might be on par with Dooku on equal ground. Yet, the alternative is not that Mace might be more powerful, just that he might be less powerful.
That aside: If anything, the thought in question spawns from Yoda's mind, as he's the only character we get an inside to in the particular scene - not Dooku. So it would be again Yoda making a comparison between the two Jedi.
Originally posted by Borbarad
And who won? Mace. Thanks for playing.
Urmm well thats kind of what we're discussing, whether Sidious let him win in the end. And LOL @ Playing
Originally posted by Borbarad
Really? I wonder if anybody favoring this opinion has ever listened to the commentary without bias.
Right first No bias here. Im neither a fan of Mace or Sidious. Mace is dull and Sidious is just wierd.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Emphasis mine.
Lucas, in the commentary, again proclaims that Sidious used the lightning in order to destroy Mace - to kill him. Even in the final version of the film. So this is canon.
Agreed. And at this point its not just Sidious who was struggling, they both were. Or did you miss the part where Mace is shaking and screaming. And according to the script you post, Mace was asking Anakin for help, this of course changed as did the whole scene.
Originally posted by Borbarad
He also says he "added" something, kind of contradicting the idea that he took away something from the original version.
Yes but hes added something which has changed the whole scene. Instead of Sidious failing while continuing to fire his FL, he stops before the conclusion of this FL fight between him and Mace is reached.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Since the movie shows Mace overcoming Sidious in the force lightning contest,
Reflecting the FL does not mean Mace won.. Mace was struggling as much as Sidious. Mace actually overcoming him after the point when Sidous stops shooting, which we know was him pretending to have no power left as according to Lucas.
Originally posted by Borbarad
with the script stating the same and Lucas confirming Sidious inability to destroy Mace,
Hey hey wait a min.. Lucas Never Ever confirmed Sidious's INABILITY to destroy Mace. All he comfirmed is that Mace was reflecting Sidious FL back at him. Which we see from the scene he does with great difficulty, so theres nothing to confirm Mace could carry that on indefinetely, apart from the sequence of events in the original script you posted which in fact changed. There is however the ROTS novel, which Stover says was all down to what Lucas wanted in there, claiming Sidious's FL was beyond Vapaad.
Originally posted by Borbarad
I have to say that you're wrong, while I am and was correct.
Lets at least try to show a little maturity here. It really will not effect my life one bit if your right.
But I will point out that even if you are, Mace was seriously struggling against Sidious's FL from a position of Lying on his ASS! So what do you think would happen if Sidious never ignited his lightsaber and went all out with the Force on Windu instead?? (assuming the other 3 jedi were not there)..
Any guesses?? Mine would be something like how Dooku kept Savage at bay with his FL, or dominated 3 nightsisters (including Ventress) with it. Sidious is simply more powerful in the Force than Mace, and as we've seen in the clone wars and the force unleashed Lightsaber duelling isn't always the all and end all of these fights.
Originally posted by Borbarad
In fact, I have this:"The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student!" - Yoda, Dark Rendevouz.
Which is Yoda suggesting that Dooku is above all other students of the Jedi temple he has seen, including Mace Windu.
As a matter of fact, we don't know if Mace and Dooku were equals. The "perhabs" in the quote, especially considering the above statement from the same source as context, that Mace might be on par with Dooku on equal ground. Yet, the alternative is not that Mace might be more powerful, just that he might be less powerful.
That aside: If anything, the thought in question spawns from Yoda's mind, as he's the only character we get an inside to in the particular scene - not Dooku. So it would be again Yoda making a comparison between the two Jedi.
Cool. Now Dooku I like!
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Urmm well thats kind of what we're discussing, whether Sidious let him win in the end.
No. We aren't. Because Lucas nailed it.
Agreed. And at this point its not just Sidious who was struggling, they both were. Or did you miss the part where Mace is shaking and screaming. And according to the script you post, Mace was asking Anakin for help, this of course changed as did the whole scene.
And then Mace pushes forward once and Sidious starts faking weakness. I'm sure you get the point.
Yes but hes added something which has changed the whole scene. Instead of Sidious failing while continuing to fire his FL, he stops before the conclusion of this FL fight between him and Mace is reached.
After Mace has already forced his lightsaber in the direction of the Sith Lord, who was simple not capable of destroying Mace with his lightning - which was what he tried to do, according to Lucas. I don't see what you want to argue here.
Reflecting the FL does not mean Mace won.. Mace was struggling as much as Sidious. Mace actually overcoming him after the point when Sidous stops shooting, which we know was him pretending to have no power left as according to Lucas.
Again: Mace forces his weapon closer and closer to Sidious, even before Sidious starts playing weak. Where is your point? Sidious was trying to kill Mace and failed. End of story.
Hey hey wait a min.. Lucas Never Ever confirmed Sidious's INABILITY to destroy Mace. All he comfirmed is that Mace was reflecting Sidious FL back at him. Which we see from the scene he does with great difficulty, so theres nothing to confirm Mace could carry that on indefinetely, apart from the sequence of events in the original script you posted which in fact changed. There is however the ROTS novel, which Stover says was all down to what Lucas wanted in there, claiming Sidious's FL was beyond Vapaad.
Stop the cherrypicking. The RotS novel is based on an earlier version of the script. You want to use that but ignore Lucas own words because "something changed", while using the RotS novel, which contradicts the entirety of the scene as it happens in the movie? That doesn't fly.
That aside: Since Sidious wanted to kill / destroy Mace according to Lucas and utterly failed, we have proof that he is inable to do the job, especially since Windu is the one forcing his weapon down on the Sith Lord against Sidious lightning. The only part Lucas has changed, is that Sidious stops his lightning, once Windu has almost pushed the lightsaber into the Sith Lords face.
But I will point out that even if you are, Mace was seriously struggling against Sidious's FL from a position of Lying on his ASS! So what do you think would happen if Sidious never ignited his lightsaber and went all out with the Force on Windu instead?? (assuming the other 3 jedi were not there)
He did go all out on the force in this very specific situation and failed to overpower Windu. As long as Mace has a lightsaber in hand, Sidious is not going to overpower him with force lightning.
Any guesses?? Mine would be something like how Dooku kept Savage at bay with his FL, or dominated 3 nightsisters (including Ventress) with it. Sidious is simply more powerful in the Force than Mace, and as we've seen in the clone wars and the force unleashed Lightsaber duelling isn't always the all and end all of these fights.
I don't know why you're trying to debate some hypothetical confrontation between Sidious and Mace here. You can assume some kind of "wizard battle" like the force contest between Dooku and Yoda before starting their lightsaber duel in AotC, and I'm rather sure Windu would lose that, if he doesn't have a lightsaber to deflect Sidious lightning, mainly because he didn't show the ability to deflect it with his bare hands.