Borbarad
Advocatus Diaboli
Originally posted by Galan007
Nope. Shatterpoint had nothing to do with Mace winning. Like I mentioned above: the only Shatterpoint that was specifically mentioned during Mace/Palpatine's duel, was Anakin -- and Mace noticing him as Palpatine's 'largest' Shatterpoint is certainly not why/how he won.
I'm slowly getting tired of correcting the severe problems with reading comprehension, that most people here seem to suffer from:
"Impasse. Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift. [...]his mind slid along the circuit of dark power, tracing it back to its limitless source. Feeling for its shatterpoint. He found a knot of fault lines in the shadow's future; he chose the largest fracture and followed it[...]" - Revenge of the Sith novelization
Vaapad just enabled him to reach an impasse with Sidious that could have lasted forever, if it weren't for his Shatterpoint ability, making the ability the deciding factor in the fight. And he found multiple shatterpoints, just identifying the largets one first. He still used the Shatterpoint ability to defeat Sidious.
Meh, Mace =(arguably >😉 Palpatine in an 'all-out' setting, thanks to Vaapad. Pretty sure that Palpatine would crush Dooku in the same type of setting.Imo: Mace > Palpatine > Dooku. If Dooku were a light sided user of the force, however, I'd give him the slight nod vs. Mace.
Your conclusions don't make sense.
If we can trust Dooku and several other sources, Dooku was at least equal or superior to Mace in terms of lightsaber combat, which includes Windu's Shatterpoint ability. From what we see in the various sources, Dooku's force mastery is also either on par or superior to that of Mace Windu (especially dark side abilities - of course - and telekinesis).
So how can you be "pretty sure" that Dooku would lose to Sidious in an all out fight? I'm rather certain he would lose a force contest against his own master, however, his force mastery (especially his defensive abilites demonstrated by the ability to redirect Sith lightning) should be suffice to survive a - probable - initial force attack by his master, to close distance and defeat him in lightsaber combat.
@Jinsoku Takai
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
#1 - How would Mace, without Vaapad of course, be affected by his opponents "dark side energies" (other than the obvious side effects of being cooked by Sith lightning and things of that nature)?
The text doesn't exactly talk about dark side energies but merely about "darkness", which can be interpreted in different fashions, obviously. To me, that darkness had always been Mace's own dark feelings, rather than some outside force. That's a line of thought that seems to be supported by the RotS novel:
"He [Mace] had learned that it is fear that gives the darkness power. He was not afraid. The darkness had no power over him." - Revenge of the Sith novelization
Rather than limiting himself out of fear to fall to the Dark Side, Vaapad enabled Mace to use all of his strength against an opponent. Again this is pretty much outright stated in the novel, once by Mace Windu himself:
"I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light." - Mace Windu, Revenge of the Sith novelization
and once during his fight with Sidious:
"There was no Jedi restraint here. Mace Windu was cutting loose." - Revenge of the Sith novelization
Vaapad isn't some sort of mysterious anti-Dark-Sider lightsaber ability and it also doesn't work extremely well against Dark Siders. It just enables Mace Windu to use all of his very own dark feelings to boost his own ability in terms of lightsaber combat. I think that, for any other kind of interpretation, you have to take certain quotes out of context in a very liberal fashion.
#2- I understand the concept of a superconductor, however the RotS novel states that Vaapad enables Mace to reflect Sidious' rage, hatred, speed, etc... back at him.
Does it?
"He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center - And let it fountain out again. He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt." - Revenge of the Sith novelization
Do you want to tell me that Sidious feelings somehow leaked out of his body, then went into Windu's body and back into Sidious body again? That's seems to be a rather odd view. In the context of the novelization (see quotes above), I'd say that Windu, feeling the rage, power and fury of Sidious, answered with his own feelings of the same sort - with Vaapad being the tool to do the job.