axel
But not better with a lightsaber....
A sharper attunement to the Force brings with it a greater ability to exceed physical limits (preternatural strength, agility, speed, reflexes, etc.) and command enhanced precognitive powers. The merits of these in the use of a lightsaber should be patently obvious even without the myriad examples of prodigiously talented individuals grasping the subtleties of the art and becoming competent duelists far quicker than others.
axel
Luke and Anakin in the beginning of their training had the potential to be uber-force users. They were not yet N. class force-users. They were first good in sabers, then become powerful in the force.
axel
And...what is Sidious doing on your list?
Of the four Jedi who confronted him in his office, at least three are inarguably swordsmen of high [and the highest] caliber. Kit Fisto once got the better of General Grievous in single combat and was only forced into retreat by the intervention of three of his MagnaGuards, and Agen Kolar was regarded by the Jedi Council and Mace Windu himself as one of the finest swordsmen in the Order. The Clone Wars ensured that their weapons saw very frequent use.
Palpatine's ability to fight on par with the best of them and slaughter the rest was a result of his vastly superior strength in the Force; even without assaulting them with it directly he was able to use it fight on a level beyond their ability to contend with.
axel
Bane was good, but still was losing to force-infant Kas'im.[...]
Exactly, Kas'im was beating Bane, even though Bane was uber in the force. In sabers Bane was fvcked.
Your unfamiliarity with the sequence being what it is, this summary should bring you sufficiently up to speed.
tj
Mace shouldn't have been stalemated by Boba Fett according to your logic.
This is not the case and has been addressed here.
tj
i don't believe that CWC episode was the issue. it was some comic book where Mace fought Boba with lightsabers. that didn't happen in CWC.
Right, but take note of what Filoni said: Fett uses bombs and traps in the cartoon because he can't take on Windu directly. This, in addition to coming from Lucas, is part of the T-canon series, which trumps the C-canon Boba Fett: Pursuit.
truejedi
Yeah, Neb, sorry, but that reply deserves a big
No U.There was absolutely nothing that could be quantified. We have no idea... Sidious should have beat Mace's ass according to your logic.
Not killing a man who can move so fast to vanish from sight, is strong enough to rip apart steel battle armor with his bare hands, commands mastery of a combat style that allows him to draw power from his own darkness and that of his foe, and has a unique affinity for finding fault lines in everything through the Force is not a mark against Palpatine, especially when one actually considers the circumstances under which that duel occurred.
I don't necessarily agree that we can gather more than a very vague idea of what Nihilus should be able to do with a lightsaber, but the aspect of Neb's argument dealing with the benefits of a strong Force-connection is sound.
EDIT: What comic did this lightsaber duel happen in? I've never heard of it and I don't think Wookiepedia has either.
tj
right, but Fett isn't always exactly at the same level of skill... Just because he couldnt' take him on in CWC doesn't mean he couldn't at another time....
😐
Did you bother to listen to the section of the podcast that I politely indicated to you on that thread?
The reason that Fett can't take on Windu directly is because he's "a little kid." Filoni then ridicules the idea that Fett fight Windu unless he "goes about it in a very subversive way" and mentions George's directive of using "bombs and explosives" as a way to "overcome the fact Mace is an incredibly trained warrior."
Between the time of this and Windu's death.... Fett's still a little kid.
E
I believe I read that one. I recall Fett attacking Windu with a gun (flechette?) but not a lightsaber.
It's been ages since I've read it, but I know that Fett assaults Windu in the Chancellor's office, Windu repeatedly orders Fett to stand down, and just as the fight intensifies, Palpatine intervenes.
It doesn't matter, though, because the words from Filoni and instructions from Lucas make it abundantly clear that Fett wouldn't be able to directly fight Mace.
AthenasTrgrFngr
well boba didnt win so there isnt really a contradiction imo
I think Filoni makes it pretty clear that Boba's not even in Mace's league; I don't think it's simply an issue of "Fett can't beat Mace" but that Fett can't fight Mace at all on any real even footing, which makes sense for a number of reasons.
AthenasTrgrFngr
you dont think "boba cant fight mace in a direct fight" and "boba would be annihilated in seconds by mace in a direct fight" is kind of a stretch?
Not at all, especially when you listen to Filoni ridicule the idea and his reasons for doing so.
He first introduces the fact that Boba's "a little kid"; being equipped with state-of-the-art armor and weaponry does not an adult make. He then explains that George wanted Fett to use "bombs and explosives" to allow Fett to overcome the fact that Mace is a highly trained warrior. In Filoni's own words, Boba can only achieve his ends through a highly subversive manner.
But even if I disregard all that, why on Earth should I believe that a competent but woefully inexperienced pre-teen would stand a chance against in a direct fight against the second most powerful Jedi Master in the galaxy?
I'm not inclined to drink from Karen Traviss's kool-aid. Mace is out of Fett's league.
ninja'd by Eminence. What a guy.
But not better with a lightsaber....
Faster, stronger, able to react quicker, better precognition, better able to block the precog of their opponents. In short, better at everything to do with lightsaber combat except technical skill. And as teh Bane vs Kas'im fight showed us, all teh above > technical skills.
Luke and Anakin in the beginning of their training had the potential to be uber-force users.
When they tapped into that potential (vs Vader/Dooku) all teh skill and experience and ability of their opponents was washed away before their pure Force strength.
They were first good in sabers, then become powerful in the force.
Er, no.
Luke was a retard with a baseball bat. Anakin, while skilled, sure, was nowhere close to Dooku's level. But in the end, non of that mattered.
Bane was good, but still was losing to force-infant Kas'im.
Because he didn't know how to fight dual-lightsabers. Before then he was easily forcing the vastly more technically skilled Kas'im back due to his raw Force power.
And...what is Sidious doing on your list?
Sidious beat 3 of teh finest swordsmen in Jedi history and drew with mother****ing Mace Windu due to his strength in teh Force and raw combat abilities. Not because of technical skill.
Exactly, Kas'im was beating Bane, even though Bane was uber in the force. In sabers Bane was fvcked.
No, in sabers Bane was kicking his fvcking ass. Then Kas'im pulled the second saber out and because Bane hadn't even slightly been taught how to fight dual-saber style, Bane started to lose. It was only due to this very speciic and obviously planned weakness in Bane's technique that he was losing to Kas'im in sabers. Before that point Bane was overpowering him in lightsaber combat through sheer Force-strength.
I have a hard time believing an 8 year old can last longer then a few seconds against Mace, as well.
I still think it's canon though. The only reason Boba could possible do that well is because Mace must have been simply holding back. Something tells me he wasn't in a hurry to cut an 8 year old in half.