Originally posted by Eminence
A sharper attunement to the Force brings with it a greater ability to exceed physical limits (preternatural strength, agility, speed, reflexes, etc.) and command enhanced precognitive powers. The merits of these in the use of a lightsaber should be patently obvious even without the myriad examples of prodigiously talented individuals grasping the subtleties of the art and becoming competent duelists far quicker than others.
Anyways, bottom line is this: I don’t think that from N.’s power in the force we can infer that he is a good saber duelists
Exactly. You think an elite Force-user will usually have less relative mastery of enhanced physical and precognitive faculties than a talented neophyte?
As [IIRC] I believe has been asserted and credibly evidenced by Gideon, as of Revenge of the Sith the Chancellor was likely well out of practice with a lightsaber. He would obviously not have needed to instruct Count Dooku in its use, trained no other students at the time, was thoroughly occupied with his dual roles as Supreme Chancellor of the Republic and shadowy puppeteer of the heads of the Confederacy of Independent Systems, and kept his lightsaber sealed in a neuranium statue until just before his duel with Mace Windu and company.
That should have been a concession of the point.
Your unfamiliarity with the sequence being what it is, this summary should bring you sufficiently up to speed.
I admit my memory is rusty.
So, they fight and thanks to superior force power Bane manages do very well, drives Kas’im back etc.
Then Kas’im switches to a style unfamiliar to Bane and keeps an onslaught that would likely end in Bane’s death if it was not for Bane collapsing a temple on Kas’im’s head.
So…in a situation of sabers-only fight (like I have specified in this thread) Bane would just die eventually to Kas’im.
Besides, my point is: Even though we have force beasts like Marek or Durron, I have a hard time imagining that only because of their strong force connection in a saber-only fight they will be able to win with weaker force-users (yet exceptional swordsmen) like Maul, Kenobi or Kas’im
I don't necessarily agree that we can gather more than a very vague idea of what Nihilus should be able to do with a lightsaber, but the aspect of Neb's argument dealing with the benefits of a strong Force-connection is sound.
But what I don’t agree with is that because N. is uber with the force this somehow points to him being in the same league as saber prodigies like Yoda, Dooku, Kas’im etc, and I think the argument was heading this way.
@ Nephthys
I think I’ve already address most things in my previous post, oh well;
Originally posted by Nephthys
Faster, stronger, able to react quicker, better precognition, better able to block the precog of their opponents. In short, better at everything to do with lightsaber combat except technical skill. And as teh Bane vs Kas'im fight showed us, all teh above > technical skills.
When they tapped into that potential (vs Vader/Dooku) all teh skill and experience and ability of their opponents was washed away before their pure Force strength.
No, in sabers Bane was kicking his fvcking ass. Then Kas'im pulled the second saber out and because Bane hadn't even slightly been taught how to fight dual-saber style, Bane started to lose. It was only due to this [b]very speciic and obviously planned weakness in Bane's technique that he was losing to Kas'im in sabers. Before that point Bane was overpowering him in lightsaber combat through sheer Force-strength. [/B]
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Just saying that N. is good with a lightsaber because he's powerful with the Force is not the way to go here. Have we ever even seen him use a lightsaber?yehno,,, jailbait kills nihiluz
facepalm
Quick, who wins: Dayton Triangles or the Brooklyn Dodgers?
Spoiler:
the correct answer is "i don't know"
Originally posted by Zampanó
facepalmQuick, who wins: Dayton Triangles or the Brooklyn Dodgers?
Spoiler:
the correct answer is "i don't know"
Be more clear. Are we talking about the Dodgers of baseball, the team that played in the old AAFC, or the team that played in the NFL?
What are the contest perimeters? Is it a pie eating contest? Elaborate.
If either of the football clubs are being referred to, and this is football game, I'd wager that either of the Dodgers teams would have an advantage due to better scouting and player recruitment as this aspect took took an upswing during the late 20's.
😊
Blax
Don't really care how they're described, only care for their feats.
Both facets are important for an accurate assessment of a character's abilities.
Otherwise, one could argue that even though you regard the dueling feats of a MagnaGuard to be sub-par, they're better than nothing: Which is exactly what Nihilus has going for him in the same area.
Originally posted by RagingBoner
[B]Both facets are important for an accurate assessment of a character's abilities.
No they're not, descriptions tend to be vague and have hyperbole or metaphors, the same is true of quotes. Feats can be absorbed from an objective point of view. The only thing that can be dubious is the context surrounding them.
Otherwise, one could argue that even though you regard the dueling feats of a MagnaGuard to be sub-par, they're better than nothing: Which is exactly what Nihilus has going for him in the same area.If he's never shown any kind of skill what-so-ever with a lightsaber, why should anyone assume he has some?
Blax
No they're not,
Sure they are.
Let's use Marka Ragnos as an example; you should know better than most that I completely oppose the idea that he's the undisputed most powerful Sith in history simply because of his standing in the ancient Sith Empire. But given what little we know about him, I think that there are those who have made excellent arguments through use of quotes and descriptions to contend that Ragnos is one of history's strongest Sith.
Do you agree?
Blax
If he's never shown any kind of skill what-so-ever with a lightsaber, why should anyone assume he has some?
Because while he might not be as technically proficient in the forms as a MagnaGuard, he is established to possess an unnaturally strong connection to the Force. (You yourself have gone on record believing Nihilus is the most powerful character in the mythos.) And we can see from precedence (Palpatine vs. Windu and co.) that a more powerful Force user can contend with and outclass more technically skilled opponents.
Originally posted by RagingBoner
[B]Sure they are.Let's use Marka Ragnos as an example; you should know better than most that I completely oppose the idea that he's the undisputed most powerful Sith in history simply because of his standing in the ancient Sith Empire. But given what little we know about him, I think that there are those who have made excellent arguments through use of quotes and descriptions to contend that Ragnos is one of history's strongest Sith.
Do you agree?
No. I don't think him or any of the Sith/Jedi in his era are that impressive, compared to the jedi in generations beyond it. lol
Because while he might not be as technically proficient in the forms as a MagnaGuard, he is established to possess an unnaturally strong connection to the Force. (You yourself have gone on record believing Nihilus is the most powerful character in the mythos.) And we can see from precedence (Palpatine vs. Windu and co.) that a more powerful Force user can contend with and outclass more technically skilled opponents.
Which is why I think he can destroy a fodder Magngagaurd. Notice that that argument is not based upon any hearsay or relative interpretations of quotations, though.
Blax
No. I don't think him or any of the Sith/Jedi in his era are that impressive, compared to the jedi in generations beyond it. lol
😐
May the cleansing wrath of Janus and the German purify your tainted sight.
Blax
Which is why I think he can destroy a fodder Magngagaurd. Notice that that argument is not based upon any hearsay or relative interpretations of quotations, though.
The argument is based on inference, however; Nihilus has a powerful connection to the Force and so we infer that it would be advantageous in a duel against an opponent that may have superior skill.
On the other hand, Kas'im's technical skill was sufficient to dominate Bane, despite the latter's vastly superior Force strength. So we also have precedence that might allow a MagnaGuard to defeat someone of Nihilus's caliber.
Personally, I think Nihilus would stomp the MagnaGuard -- but if we go by combat/dueling feats alone (which is what you seem to suggest), Nihilus loses.