Originally posted by Psychotron
He got up in like 5 seconds. Twice. He did take them, stop ignoring all the punches he took.Then you should agree that the Rocky that faced Drago was tougher.
You're wrong.
So what were you focusing on aside from the choreography? Because all that happened in the second fight was Rocky crushing Lang with ease.
Exactly. It took him a bit. The punches he took dropped him resulting in his decision to avoid them like the plague
Burden of proof and all. I know you "think" he was tougher but you haven't proved it at all.
Nope
Storyline. Writer's intent. The actual fight. All things that show Rocky could only win if he avoided and blocked Lang's hits
Originally posted by TheGrat1
Boxers target build their neck muscles specifically to help them absorb blows to the head. Rocky's strength training in Rocky IV helped him take Drago's head shots. Therefore we can establish the training is why he had enhanced durability compared to when he fought Clubber.
Then we can assume he's always built his neck muscles? Since he was always a boxer and this is what they do yes? So what in Rocky IV shows that he did even more to build those muscles?
Originally posted by juggerman
Lang is not his peer in punching. He is his superior
I am so sorry that you can't seem to comprehend the entire point of Rocky IV, even though they made it as blatant as a supervolanic eruption. '
Originally posted by juggerman
Then we can assume he's always built his neck muscles? Since he was always a boxer and this is what they do yes? So what in Rocky IV shows that he did even more to build those muscles?
😆 Again, I'm so, so sorry that you have a complete lack of understanding of how the human body and exercise works, especially if you think the grueling workout he used in Rocky IV would produce equivalent/less muscle mass than his training in Rocky III.
Originally posted by Lestov16
I am so sorry that you can't seem to comprehend the entire point of Rocky IV, even though they made it as blatant as a supervolanic eruption. '😆 Again, I'm so, so sorry that you have a complete lack of understanding of how the human body and exercise works, especially if you think the grueling workout he used in Rocky IV would produce equivalent/less muscle mass than his training in Rocky III.
He faced a more dangerous and tougher opponent. He didn't need to hit harder.
What exercises did they show him doing that produced more neck muscle?
The entire point of Rocky IV is that Drago hits harder than anybody Rocky (or any other boxer for that matter) has ever faced. Saying Clubber exceeds Drago's punches goes against every single event of Rocky IV.
Pulling trucks, climbing mountains, etc. Are you honestly going to tell me such rigorous training doesn't build muscles?
Originally posted by Lestov16
The entire point of Rocky IV is that Drago hits harder than anybody Rocky (or any other boxer for that matter) has ever faced. Saying Clubber exceeds Drago's punches goes against every single event of Rocky IV.Pulling trucks, climbing mountains, etc. Are you honestly going to tell me such rigorous training doesn't build muscles?
I'm sure you can provide the quote where they say he hit harder than anyone he's ever faced?
So pulling trucks and climbing a mountain produce a significant amount of neck muscle now? You are avoiding my question entirely. Since you were so eager to co-sign on the neck muscle thing please back it up
Logic and common sense, juggerquan. It's stated that Drago can punch at over twice the power of the average boxer, and based on the media and public reaction to his strength, it's rather clear he is the first person documented to have such punching power. Unless Clubber was denied a strength test because of his race, Clubber has no comparably-noteworthy punching power. Your one (weak) argument is based on your subjective interpretation of Rocky's blocking, even though (once again), it's rather clear (based on the fact that Rocky's training in IV is far more grueling than in III) that Rocky is more durable in IV, which is why he tanked Drago's shots.
So really, all of your arguments are essentially you at best nitpicking minor plot holes and at worst completely ignoring the context of the films and coming up with your own bullshit interpretation just because it makes sense to (ONLY) you. Nothing about your stance is objective in the least, and again, it completely contradicts the films.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Logic and common sense, juggerquan. It's stated that Drago can punch at over twice the power of the average boxer, and based on the media and public reaction to his strength, it's rather clear he is the first person documented to have such punching power. Unless Clubber was denied a strength test because of his race, Clubber has no comparably-noteworthy punching power. Your one (weak) argument is based on your subjective interpretation of Rocky's blocking, even though (once again), it's rather clear (based on the fact that Rocky's training in IV is far more grueling than in III) that Rocky is more durable in IV, which is why he tanked Drago's shots.So really, all of your arguments are essentially you at best nitpicking minor plot holes and at worst completely ignoring the context of the films and coming up with your own bullshit interpretation just because it makes sense to (ONLY) you. Nothing about your stance is objective in the least, and again, it completely contradicts the films.
Has any other boxer in the entire series be given this punching test? And once again Clubber was not your average boxer so stating how Drago compares to average boxer means very little. If Clubber's punching power was nothing special why was he the only boxer that caused Rocky trouble due to his hits?
I nitpicked nothing. I'm stating what happened and what was shown in the films. You are relying on your bias and assumptions to make your stance. "Well Rocky was more durable cuz um... reasons". Not gonna fly guy. Where was it established or shown? No where. I can show you again where Clubber's punching power was shown if you'd like
Originally posted by juggerman
Has any other boxer in the entire series be given this punching test?
Exactamundo 🙂 Nobody else has been given this test because nobody else has punching power like Drago
Originally posted by juggerman
And once again Clubber was not your average boxer
I'm sure you'll have zero problem posting the scene where Clubber was stated to hit harder than the average boxer, less lone over twice as hard.
Originally posted by juggerman
so stating how Drago compares to average boxer means very little.
Again, prove Clubber hits harder than 700 psi.
Originally posted by juggerman
If Clubber's punching power was nothing special why was he the only boxer that caused Rocky trouble due to his hits?
That's your subjective interpretation. Everybody else who saw the film, and the filmmakers themselves, regard Drago as superior. You seem to be the only one who thinks different (well, you got Quan on your side....I'm not sure if that's good)
And again you ignore Rocky's training.
Originally posted by juggerman
I nitpicked nothing. I'm stating what happened and what was shown in the films.
No, you're giving your bullshit interpretation while ignoring several important factors, most notably the media frenzy surrounding Drago because he obviously punches harder than anybody before him, and again Rocky's training
Originally posted by juggerman
You are relying on your bias and assumptions to make your stance.
😆 A screenfeat which blatantly shows 2150 psi isn't an assumption. Now thinking Clubber is Rocky's hardest hitting opponent just because of some shit Apollo said and your incorrect interpretation of the fight, now that right there is an assumption 🙂
Originally posted by juggerman
"Well Rocky was more durable cuz um... reasons".
So you again display your complete ignorance of how the human body and exercise works. Did you even see the Rocky IV training montage?
Originally posted by juggerman
Not gonna fly guy. Where was it established or shown? No where.
In the scene where Drago punched at 1850 psi and nobody in the crowd, nor a single newcaster said "Clubber Lang can punch harder than that"
Originally posted by juggerman
I can show you again where Clubber's punching power was shown if you'd like
If you have a scene where Clubber is stated to have an over 2000 psi punch, please post it. We both know you don't though 🙂
Originally posted by juggerman
So pulling trucks and climbing a mountain produce a significant amount of neck muscle now?
Uh....yea 😐
Originally posted by juggerman
You are avoiding my question entirely.
No. you just can't seem to comprehend the answer, or anything about the concepts of how muscles and exercise work
Originally posted by juggerman
Since you were so eager to co-sign on the neck muscle thing please back it up
One builds muscle mass by straining one's muscle fibers so that they break down enough to cause protein synthesis ( the regeneration of muscle fibers) resulting in a stronger, larger muscle. Rocky's training in IV is clearly more strenuous and thus mass-building than his III training.
Then again, we aren't going by logic or anything, we're going by your bullshit subjective interpretation of Rocky's blocking in III and ignoring all other factors. Isn't that right, juggerquan? 🙂
Originally posted by juggerman
Exactly. It took him a bit. The punches he took dropped him resulting in his decision to avoid them like the plagueBurden of proof and all. I know you "think" he was tougher but you haven't proved it at all.
Nope
Storyline. Writer's intent. The actual fight. All things that show Rocky could only win if he avoided and blocked Lang's hits
In what fantasy world does getting up in 5 seconds count as long? Rocky tanked plenty of shots after getting knocked down anyway. And what difference does that make when Drago knocked him down, too? It literally proves nothing since neither could keep him down, but Drago at least gave him brain damage.
Except we see Rocky's training for both fights. For Clubber he improves his speed and technique, but for Drago he goes for hardcore weight training and stamina, because as was already mentioned muscle can prevent KOs.
Yes.
You can't be serious. If we go by writer's intent then Drago absolutely rapes Lang. By writer's intent Drago is clearly the toughest mofo in the boxing ring ever. That's why they had a million scenes showcasing his strength and punching power, that's why he destroyed Apollo in 2 rounds.
Originally posted by Lestov16
1. Exactamundo 🙂 Nobody else has been given this test because nobody else has punching power like Drago2. I'm sure you'll have zero problem posting the scene where Clubber was stated to hit harder than the average boxer, less lone over twice as hard.
3. Again, prove Clubber hits harder than 700 psi.
4. That's your subjective interpretation. Everybody else who saw the film, and the filmmakers themselves, regard Drago as superior. You seem to be the only one who thinks different (well, you got Quan on your side....I'm not sure if that's good)
5. And again you ignore Rocky's training.
6. No, you're giving your bullshit interpretation while ignoring several important factors, most notably the media frenzy surrounding Drago because he [b]obviously
punches harder than anybody before him, and again Rocky's training7. 😆 A screenfeat which blatantly shows 2150 psi isn't an assumption. Now thinking Clubber is Rocky's hardest hitting opponent just because of some shit Apollo said and your incorrect interpretation of the fight, now that right there is an assumption 🙂
8. So you again display your complete ignorance of how the human body and exercise works. Did you even see the Rocky IV training montage?
9. In the scene where Drago punched at 1850 psi and nobody in the crowd, nor a single newcaster said "Clubber Lang can punch harder than that"
10. If you have a scene where Clubber is stated to have an over 2000 psi punch, please post it. We both know you don't though 🙂 [/B]
Numbered cuz i'm not going to quote each point separately
1. So why bring up Clubber being denied the test for so reason when no one else has been given it?
2. It wasn't stated. It was shown
3. Again no one in the films have been given an exact psi but Drago. You can't prove he had the most
4. Nothing subjective about Rocky III at all. You act as it it was a random thing with Rocky not being able to stand toe to toe with Lang and not the basis of most of the film. You're ignoring context
5. I didn't ignore his training at all. Show me where his training developed this super increase of durability with actual screen feats and not assumptions for once
6. You're the one ignoring things like. Again Drago was a superior fighter and a much bigger threat than anyone before. His punching power was not the sole reason he got so much attention
7. A system showed his power but no one else's. How is that proof he was superior? You act as if Apollo's statement is the sole factor here. You are strawmanning again. It was Apollo's statements, accompanied by the actual feats in the movie, along with Rocky himself verifying it by his actions/reactions. No getting around it
8. I did. Did you? Show me where he increased his durability in his head/neck as you and others have stated. I've been asking for this for a while now. I'm starting to see you are just full of it
9. Wow. Just wow. You can't tell if someone can hit harder than a number if they never have been measured in the same way. But we can tell if say they hit the same opponent and he only needed to shield himself from one of them...
10. Point destroyed above 🙂
Originally posted by Lestov16
Uh....yea 😐No. you just can't seem to comprehend the answer, or anything about the concepts of how muscles and exercise work
One builds muscle mass by straining one's muscle fibers so that they break down enough to cause protein synthesis ( the regeneration of muscle fibers) resulting in a stronger, larger muscle. Rocky's training in IV is clearly more strenuous and thus mass-building than his III training.
Then again, we aren't going by logic or anything, we're going by your bullshit subjective interpretation of Rocky's blocking in III and ignoring all other factors. Isn't that right, juggerquan? 🙂
How does climbing a mountain do so?
The BS answer you gave does not solve the issue here.
Again what did he do exactly that vastly improved his neck muscles to the point that you are claiming them to be? All you've said was "He worked out". What exercises were shown that back your claim? The answer is none.
Originally posted by Psychotron
In what fantasy world does getting up in 5 seconds count as long? Rocky tanked plenty of shots after getting knocked down anyway. And what difference does that make when Drago knocked him down, too? It literally proves nothing since neither could keep him down, but Drago at least gave him brain damage.Except we see Rocky's training for both fights. For Clubber he improves his speed and technique, but for Drago he goes for hardcore weight training and stamina, because as was already mentioned muscle can prevent KOs.
Yes.
You can't be serious. If we go by writer's intent then Drago absolutely rapes Lang. By writer's intent Drago is clearly the toughest mofo in the boxing ring ever. That's why they had a million scenes showcasing his strength and punching power, that's why he destroyed Apollo in 2 rounds.
When did i say long? And you act as if he was unfazed by the hits so him needing 5 seconds to pull his ass up shows those hits were much more effective than you are letting on. Years of boxing gave him brain damage. It wasn't all Drago, but Rocky could endure 15 rounds of Drago while he had to dip and dodge Lang. That means a lot.
Yeah his training differed. He could easily take Drago's hits so he needed to get stronger to be able to out punch him. He couldn't take Lang's hits so he trained to avoid them. Very telling.
No
Drago wasn't just a puncher like Lang was. He had more ability than just hitting hard. That's what put him over the top. If Drago and Lang fought yeah Drago would own him. As we see it took much less than Drago's power to fell Lang. But being able to beat someone=/= being stronger than them