Originally posted by Robtard
You're being purposely obtuse. It's evident that Rocky trained extremely hard and in a Spartan-like fashion; that was the entire premise of the montage while he was in Russia.
I agree he did train hard. But nothing we see him do boosted his ability to take super hard punches to his face and head.
Originally posted by juggerman
If he could take them he would have. See his fight with Drago for proof. See his multiple fights with Creed if you're still not convinced. When he feels he can handle the hits he takes them right to the face no problem. He actively avoided Lang for a reason. The point is he took Drago's hits for 15 rounds with no real issue. He took Lang's hits for about 20 seconds and decided then and there he never wanted to get him by that man again.I'm not ignoring it at all. The muscles you and others keep bringing up are his neck muscles being stronger to help him take more trauma to the head. But what we see in his training is mostly arm, back, core, and leg workouts. How do you figure him getting more muscle in those areas allow him to take a shot to the dome more easily? Not one neck workout was shown iirc so I'm really not seeing the point here.
Nope.
Not according to Rocky's face
He did take them, stop pretending he didn't. He took upwards of 50+ clean shots just to the face in those 3 rounds. Clubber didn't do jack shit to him, while Drago gave him brain damage. Drago killed a man, Drago OHPed 300+ lbs, Drago had his punches measured on screen to be super-human. Lang did nothing. You literally have no evidence except your wild speculation based on the movie's choreography.
Uh-huh, so unless Rocky is explicitly shown to be training a particular muscle then he never trained it? Great logic. I guess Rocky never trained chest in Rocky IV. And he never did any kind of weightlifting in Rocky III. Not to mention that Rocky did a lot of compound movements ( the overhead press specifically) that do work neck along with traps and other muscles.
This Quanchi style of bullshitting is pointless.
Brain damage disagrees with you.
1. They've obviously used the machine long before, but never for such a grandiose purpose.
2. Drago hitting 2150 psi isn't a strawman, it's an objective fact and the only thing you have to counter it is your subjective, flawed interpretation of Rocky's blocking.
3. Clubber never used the test because his punching was never at a level that had people saying "he punches harder than the average boxer". Please provide even one quote from III where Clubber is stated to hit harder than anybody else. There is NOTHING in III that is said or done that suggests Clubber can hit harder than average, less lone 2150 psi. And considering you clearly aren't knowledgeable of all the factors that go into the fights, your subjective interpretation of Rocky's blocking as some kind of absolute standard is...not refutable, to say the least.
4. That plan consisted of getting in Clubber's face, Clubber throwing everything at him, and tiring out like a little bytch after a mere 3 rounds. Stop acting like Rocky was cowering in a corner afraid of Clubber's shots. He tanked a good majority of them. Then again, this is all irrelevant since you ignore Rocky's training in IV granting him more durability. Debating with you is like debating against a gas station toilet. No matter what I say, shit will be spewed back at me.
5. 😆 Where was it clearly stated that his training was building muscle mass?: THE WHOLE PHUCKING MONTAGE
6. DUH!. He was obviously very large built, which granted him not only peerless strength, but also obviously durability and stamina. That was kind of made clear by the fact that he went 15 rounds
7.
LOL the entire reason the psi was brought up is because nobody had ever been seen with that kind of punching power before.
That's exactly what the phuck happened.
LOL, because "avoid at all costs" translates to "get into his face and insult him so he can throw everything at me and become fatigued". And again, keep ignoring that Rocky's durability increased in IV. You're the only one making a fool of yourself.
8. The proof is too obvious. Its like someone denying the sky is blue.
9. So now your argument is that Rocky was only building his leg muscles? His training regiment was clearly working out his entire body. Do you want a pinpoint molecular diagram and the exact mass of each muscle that grew during Rocky's training?
10. One step closer to the quan, and you're about to break.
Originally posted by Robtard
An aspect of fight conditioning is training to take hits.Do you think if you were professionally trained by the best boxing trainers in the world, that after a year you wouldn't be able to take a punch better than you could right now?
Yeah but if we are saying he does things "boxers do" then we would have to assume he did all this training from the get-go. So we have a Rocky after years and years of training not being able to take Lang's hits, and then after a few months he is able to take hits that are much much harder easily with no rhyme or reason as to how this happened?
It seems like there is a lot of things that are readily assumed in Rocky's, and Drago's favor here.
Originally posted by Psychotron
He did take them, stop pretending he didn't. He took upwards of 50+ clean shots just to the face in those 3 rounds. Clubber didn't do jack shit to him, while Drago gave him brain damage. Drago killed a man, Drago OHPed 300+ lbs, Drago had his punches measured on screen to be super-human. Lang did nothing. You literally have no evidence except your wild speculation based on the movie's choreography.Uh-huh, so unless Rocky is explicitly shown to be training a particular muscle then he never trained it? Great logic. I guess Rocky never trained chest in Rocky IV. And he never did any kind of weightlifting in Rocky III. Not to mention that Rocky did a lot of compound movements ( the overhead press specifically) that do work neck along with traps and other muscles.
This Quanchi style of bullshitting is pointless.
Brain damage disagrees with you.
He took them, he didn't tank them like he did with Drago's. He took nowhere near 50 shots. You are outright lying there. Lang forced him to alter his approach. Drago didn't.
Well no but to have us believe he did something to the point where it made such a huge difference to not be shown or mentioned is weird don't you think? That would be the difference of me saying "he curled some weights during his traing" and me saying "he curled 500lbs with one arm". One is easily much more credible than the other with assuming what he did.
Then stop doing it
Brain damage was stated to be cause by years of fighting. This "Drago caused it" nonsense is not the case.
So you are one of those simple minded film-watching idiots who, unless you see a specific close-up of Rocky's neck, or a specific line of dialogue saying "I worked on my neck" scratches their thick monkey brain wondering WTF is going on, even though it's blatantly clear that the exercises he is doing would logically build his neck muscles amongst many others. Hell, even your dialogue exchange is smarter than you:
Originally posted by juggerman
Jugg- Where did we see this?
L- Well he built muscle from climbing mountains
Bam.
you asked where it showed it him building his neck muscles, and I correctly answered in the training montage, where his neck is obviously being strained with the rest of his muscles. Just because you are apparently a moronic simpleton and can't comprehend that his neck muscles are being built in the exercises that are clearly building his entire body, doesn't mean you have to go all ragequan on us.
Originally posted by juggerman
Yeah but if we are saying he does things "boxers do" then we would have to assume he did all this training from the get-go. So we have a Rocky after years and years of training not being able to take Lang's hits, and then after a few months he is able to take hits that are much much harder easily with no rhyme or reason as to how this happened?It seems like there is a lot of things that are readily assumed in Rocky's, and Drago's favor here.
You're mixing things about.
The premise of Rocky 3: Rocky had fights picked for him where he could easily win for the last 10 fights; why Lang tore through his ass when they first met. It was a guy who hadn't had to train very hard for the last 3 or so years Vs a beast of a boxer. But after Rocky had some proper training with Apollo (which Apollo noted "you lost your edge"😉, he took out Lang in 3 rounds. Basically punked his ass.
The premise of Rocky 4: Drago was the toughest opponent Rocky would ever face (super punch, killing Apollo, etc), so he had to train himself to extreme levels, more so than he's ever done before.
Now if you can't see a disparity between Rocky only having to train for what looked like a few months with Apollo to take out Lang in 3 rounds and the grueling year he did in Rocky 4 to be able to go 15 rounds with Drago, I don't know how else to explain it to you.
Originally posted by Lestov16
1. They've obviously used the machine long before, but never for such a grandiose purpose.2. Drago hitting 2150 psi isn't a strawman, it's an [b]objective
fact and the only thing you have to counter it is your subjective, flawed interpretation of Rocky's blocking.3. Clubber never used the test because his punching was never at a level that had people saying "he punches harder than the average boxer". Please provide even one quote from III where Clubber is stated to hit harder than anybody else. There is NOTHING in III that is said or done that suggests Clubber can hit harder than average, less lone 2150 psi. And considering you clearly aren't knowledgeable of all the factors that go into the fights, your subjective interpretation of Rocky's blocking as some kind of absolute standard is...not refutable, to say the least.
4. That plan consisted of getting in Clubber's face, Clubber throwing everything at him, and tiring out like a little bytch after a mere 3 rounds. Stop acting like Rocky was cowering in a corner afraid of Clubber's shots. He tanked a good majority of them. Then again, this is all irrelevant since you ignore Rocky's training in IV granting him more durability. Debating with you is like debating against a gas station toilet. No matter what I say, shit will be spewed back at me.
5. 😆 Where was it clearly stated that his training was building muscle mass?: THE WHOLE PHUCKING MONTAGE
6. DUH!. He was obviously very large built, which granted him not only peerless strength, but also obviously durability and stamina. That was kind of made clear by the fact that he went 15 rounds
7.
LOL the entire reason the psi was brought up is because nobody had ever been seen with that kind of punching power before.
That's exactly what the phuck happened.
LOL, because "avoid at all costs" translates to "get into his face and insult him so he can throw everything at me and become fatigued". And again, keep ignoring that Rocky's durability increased in IV. You're the only one making a fool of yourself.
8. The proof is too obvious. Its like someone denying the sky is blue.
9. So now your argument is that Rocky was only building his leg muscles? His training regiment was clearly working out his entire body. Do you want a pinpoint molecular diagram and the exact mass of each muscle that grew during Rocky's training?
10. One step closer to the quan, and you're about to break. [/B]
1. Can you prove this or is this a baseless claim?
2. Asking me to compare it to an unmeasured hit is a straw man.
3. There is a lot to say Clubber hits harder than average. Rocky can absorb hits from pretty much all other boxers including the world champ but can't take Lang's. That's as conclusive as it gets
4. The plan was for him to dodge Clubber's hits while punching and counter punching. He didn't decide to get in Lang's face and tire him out until the end of the 2nd round
5. That was shown. The neck thing wasn't. Try again
6. It was the drugs that granted him the strength
7. Not registered like that.
Nope
He was blocking and dodging instead of taking the shots like he did from Drago. Clearly Rocky thinks Drago doesn't hit as hard
8. Soooooo none? Ok.
9. I just want you to show me these amazing neck workout you claim Rocky underwent. Still waiting on those
10. Is that all you have?
Originally posted by Lestov16
So you are one of those simple minded film-watching idiots who, unless you see a specific close-up of Rocky's neck, or a specific line of dialogue saying "I worked on my neck" scratches their thick monkey brain wondering WTF is going on, even though it's blatantly clear that the exercises he is doing would logically build his neck muscles amongst many others. Hell, even your dialogue exchange is smarter than you:Bam.
you asked where it showed it him building his neck muscles, and I correctly answered in the training montage, where his neck is obviously being strained with the rest of his muscles. Just because you are apparently a moronic simpleton and can't comprehend that his neck muscles are being built in the exercises that are clearly building his entire body, doesn't mean you have to go all ragequan on us.
So you have nothing? He was shown running up a mountain using legs and, at one point when it was very steep, using his hands a bit. This is not a full body workout that includes his neck like you are claiming it to be. Try again
Originally posted by juggerman
Rocky after years and years of training not being able to take Lang's hits, and then after a few months he is able to take hits that are much much harder easily with no rhyme or reason as to how this happened?
It's called "tougher training regiment than anything he's ever done" and "adrenaline-fueling rage at his best friend's murderer".
And again, your la-la land belief that Rocky was terrified of Clubber's hits like they would transport him to Hell. He only blocked a few of them. He would have probably beat Clubber the first time considering his original figting style worked, if not for Mickey's death, and also his clearly subpar and unmotivated training. Clubber is nobody special and Rocky dusted him in 3 rounds, whereas it took 15 to put down Drago. Get off his jock.
Originally posted by Robtard
You're mixing things about.The premise of Rocky 3: Rocky had fights picked for him where he could easily win for the last 10 fights; why Lang tore through his ass when they first met. It was a guy who hadn't had to train very hard for the last 3 or so years Vs a beast of a boxer. But after Rocky had some proper training with Apollo (which Apollo noted "you lost your edge"😉, he took out Lang in 3 rounds. Basically punked his ass.
The premise of Rocky 4: Drago was the toughest opponent Rocky would ever face (super punch, killing Apollo, etc), so he had to train himself to extreme levels, more so than he's ever done before.
Now if you can't see a disparity between Rocky only having to train for what looked like a few months with Apollo to take out Lang in 3 rounds and the grueling year he did in Rocky 4 to be able to go 15 rounds with Drago, I don't know how else to explain it to you.
But you are leaving out context. He beat Lang due to Lang's lack of stamina. He trained himself to move and avoid hits, and when that fails, he basically tricks Lang into punching himself out. He still had to block himself from a tired Clubber.
And in Rocky IV he didn't train for a year. Iirc Apollo dies in July. He was doing his whole 4th of July thing with his Uncle Sam get up because of the holiday. Then Rocky fought Drago in December. That's not a year. Plus take into consideration that it took a little bit of time to arrange the fight and bury Creed. Then Rocky wasn't training very hard at first.
Now I could be wrong about the dates so if I am I apologize but that's how I remember it.
Originally posted by Lestov16
It's called "tougher training regiment than anything he's ever done" and "adrenaline-fueling rage at his best friend's murderer".And again, your la-la land belief that Rocky was terrified of Clubber's hits like they would transport him to Hell. He only blocked a few of them. He would have probably beat Clubber the first time considering his original figting style worked, if not for Mickey's death, and also his clearly subpar and unmotivated training. Clubber is nobody special and Rocky dusted him in 3 rounds, whereas it took 15 to put down Drago. Get off his jock.
His original fighting style didn't work. He blocked mire than "a few" of Clubber's hits. You are intentionally misrepresenting the fight.
Originally posted by juggerman
But you are leaving out context. He beat Lang due to Lang's lack of stamina. He trained himself to move and avoid hits, and when that fails, he basically tricks Lang into punching himself out. He still had to block himself from a tired Clubber.And in Rocky IV he didn't train for a year. Iirc Apollo dies in July. He was doing his whole 4th of July thing with his Uncle Sam get up because of the holiday. Then Rocky fought Drago in December. That's not a year. Plus take into consideration that it took a little bit of time to arrange the fight and bury Creed. Then Rocky wasn't training very hard at first.
Now I could be wrong about the dates so if I am I apologize but that's how I remember it.
Um, no. Rocky was outright mocking Lang and using his face/body as a punching bag to tire out Lang at times. Rocky was simply better all around than Lang after his training with Apollo/not being a show pony champion anymore. That was the premise, Rocky went back to being a real fighter (ala Rocky 1-2).
My error then, I thought it was a December to December thing. So about 5 months worth of grueling training. The entire premise of that Russia montage was that Rocky was training harder than he's ever trained before (rocky 1-3), since he was facing a guy who put Apollo (a badass in his own right) in critical condition after just one round.
You're basically ignoring the premise of both films by saying Lang > Drago.
Originally posted by juggerman
He took them, he didn't tank them like he did with Drago's. He took nowhere near 50 shots. You are outright lying there. Lang forced him to alter his approach. Drago didn't.Well no but to have us believe he did something to the point where it made such a huge difference to not be shown or mentioned is weird don't you think? That would be the difference of me saying "he curled some weights during his traing" and me saying "he curled 500lbs with one arm". One is easily much more credible than the other with assuming what he did.
Then stop doing it
Brain damage was stated to be cause by years of fighting. This "Drago caused it" nonsense is not the case.
It doesn't matter. The fact is he took them which means they weren't strong enough to knock him out. Your entire thesis is based on the fact that Rocky allegedly didn't tank them, therefore he couldn't have taken them, but we see him take them so your theory is bullshit. No, I'm not. Rocky took 26+ shot in just one instance which lasted like a 60 seconds. He definitely took more than 50 throughout the whole fight, and that's not counting the body shots which can be more devastating than face shots when properly placed. Yeah, he forced him to mock Lang. I'm so impressed, I'll go by a Mr. T shirt right now. Where do you get yours?
This is not some special exercise that only the Shaolin monks know. Literally every fighter works for his neck and traps, why do you think guys like Brock Lesnar have necks the size of your face? Hell, I do it, too. I thought this was common knowledge.
You're the one doing it, juggerquan.
He didn't have brain damage after his fight with Lang, but he did have it after Drago. Fact.
1. No more speculative than your stance
2. Fine, we'll compare it this way: which one of the two had the punching power to kill a man (who was in great shape) in 2 rounds? 🙂
3. What, besides your bullshit interpretation of Rocky's blocking, suggests Clubber hits harder than normal? Also, again, get out of la-la land with the notion that Rocky couldn't take Lang's hits, when his entire strategy relied on Lang wailing on him
4. Well how about that? When Rocky decided to get in his face and Clubber unleashed his full punching power on him, he got tired out and KOed in 1 round. Drago didn't get tired out for 15 rounds.
5. Neck thing was shown, you are just too stupid to actually comprehend it.
6. Either way, he had the strength, and it was obviously unrivaled.
7.
That was the point of the scene.
✅
With you again completely ignoring factors like his training granting him more durability to tank Dragos hits, no wonder your opinion is 100% objective fact 🙂
8. Again, you seem to want a pinpoint diagram. that shit's not happening. Read a biology and fitness textbook so you can properly comprehend the scene instead of me having to spell it out for you like I'm your 1st grade teacher, you lazy bastard.
10. OK, I'll be honest. I'm impressive, Quanchi. I didn't know you were smart enough to hack juggerman's account.
Originally posted by juggerman
So you have nothing? He was shown running up a mountain using legs and, at one point when it was very steep, using his hands a bit. This is not a full body workout that includes his neck like you are claiming it to be. Try again
It was a montage of him doing numerous regimens, not just mountain climbing, all of which are clearly affecting his entire body and are more strenuous and mass-building than any previous training regimen. No matter how much you whine, you aren't going to get a diagram that spells it out like a kindergartner.
Originally posted by Robtard
Um, no. Rocky was outright mocking Lang and using his face/body as a punching bag to tire out Lang at times. Rocky was simply better all around than Lang after his training with Apollo/not being a show pony champion anymore. That was the premise, Rocky went back to being a real fighter (ala Rocky 1-2).My error then, I thought it was a December to December thing. So about 5 months worth of grueling training. The entire premise of that Russia montage was that Rocky was training harder than he's ever trained before, since he was facing a guy who put Apollo (a badass in his own right) in critical condition after just one round.
Your basically ignoring the premise of both films by saying Lang > Drago.
He was mocking him at the end of the 2nd round and then into the 3rd. Did not use his head as a punching bag, he was blocking his head with his gloves. That was the point. He got Lang all riled up and then proceeded to protect himself from the onslaught. I agree with the premise but that doesn't take anything away from Lang.
No biggie. But again i agree Drago was the superior fighter by a long shot and Rocky had to train like hell to take him on. I just don't see Rocky upping his durability to such an extreme as you do i guess. Nothing really showed that he was able to take harder hits than Lang's
Lang is not > Drago.
Originally posted by Psychotron
It doesn't matter. The fact is he took them which means they weren't strong enough to knock him out. Your entire thesis is based on the fact that Rocky allegedly didn't tank them, therefore he couldn't have taken them, but we see him take them so your theory is bullshit. No, I'm not. Rocky took 26+ shot in just one instance which lasted like a 60 seconds. He definitely took more than 50 throughout the whole fight, and that's not counting the body shots which can be more devastating than face shots when properly placed. Yeah, he forced him to mock Lang. I'm so impressed, I'll go by a Mr. T shirt right now. Where do you get yours?This is not some special exercise that only the Shaolin monks know. Literally every fighter works for his neck and traps, why do you think guys like Brock Lesnar have necks the size of your face? Hell, I do it, too. I thought this was common knowledge.
You're the one doing it, juggerquan.
He didn't have brain damage after his fight with Lang, but he did have it after Drago. Fact.
He needed to block them. You are acting like that means nothing. It means a whole lot here seeing as how he took Drago's with no issue. Count them out if you like. The whole time, except when Lang caught him ion the corner, Rocky avoided and blocked the shots. He got a few in here and there but nowhere near 50
I know it isn't special that's why i'm asking where was it shown. If we are assuming he did neck exercises in 4 because "boxers do them" then we must assume he's always done them. And if he's always done them, what did he do differently in 4 that made his durability go up so far?
Not at all
No one denied that.
Originally posted by Epicurus
It's pretty simple when it comes to Drago's punching prowess; he KO'd boxers wearing protective gear around their heads during sparring matches, with a handful of punches no less. Clubber KO'd an out of shape and badly prepped Rocky.The difference between these feats is palpable. By a huge margin I might add.
👆