Originally posted by juggerman
When did i say long? And you act as if he was unfazed by the hits so him needing 5 seconds to pull his ass up shows those hits were much more effective than you are letting on. Years of boxing gave him brain damage. It wasn't all Drago, but Rocky could endure 15 rounds of Drago while he had to dip and dodge Lang. That means a lot.Yeah his training differed. He could easily take Drago's hits so he needed to get stronger to be able to out punch him. He couldn't take Lang's hits so he trained to avoid them. Very telling.
No
Drago wasn't just a puncher like Lang was. He had more ability than just hitting hard. That's what put him over the top. If Drago and Lang fought yeah Drago would own him. As we see it took much less than Drago's power to fell Lang. But being able to beat someone=/= being stronger than them
He felt them, sure, but that doesn't mean he couldn't take them. It was mostly Drago, the one guy with legitimate superhuman punches, that gave him brain damage. You would have had a point if Rocky could take Drago for 15 rounds, but he had lost to Lang. But since Rocky took his punches you have no argument.
No. He needed the extra strength not just to hurt Drago, but to take his hits as well. It's been pointed out that muscle mass prevents injuries and KOs, don't ignore it. It's actually telling that Rocky didn't bother to improve his durability against Lang, but had to do it against Drago.
Yeah.
And yet Drago is both a better fighter and stronger than Lang by screen feats.
Originally posted by Psychotron
He felt them, sure, but that doesn't mean he couldn't take them. It was mostly Drago, the one guy with legitimate superhuman punches, that gave him brain damage. You would have had a point if Rocky could take Drago for 15 rounds, but he had lost to Lang. But since Rocky took his punches you have no argument.No. He needed the extra strength not just to hurt Drago, but to take his hits as well. It's been pointed out that muscle mass prevents injuries and KOs, don't ignore it. It's actually telling that Rocky didn't bother to improve his durability against Lang, but had to do it against Drago.
Yeah.
And yet Drago is both a better fighter and stronger than Lang by screen feats.
If he could take them he would have. See his fight with Drago for proof. See his multiple fights with Creed if you're still not convinced. When he feels he can handle the hits he takes them right to the face no problem. He actively avoided Lang for a reason. The point is he took Drago's hits for 15 rounds with no real issue. He took Lang's hits for about 20 seconds and decided then and there he never wanted to get him by that man again.
I'm not ignoring it at all. The muscles you and others keep bringing up are his neck muscles being stronger to help him take more trauma to the head. But what we see in his training is mostly arm, back, core, and leg workouts. How do you figure him getting more muscle in those areas allow him to take a shot to the dome more easily? Not one neck workout was shown iirc so I'm really not seeing the point here.
Nope.
Not according to Rocky's face
Originally posted by juggerman
Numbered cuz i'm not going to quote each point separately1. So why bring up Clubber being denied the test for so reason when no one else has been given it?
2. It wasn't stated. It was shown
3. Again no one in the films have been given an exact psi but Drago. You can't prove he had the most
4. Nothing subjective about Rocky III at all. You act as it it was a random thing with Rocky not being able to stand toe to toe with Lang and not the basis of most of the film. You're ignoring context
5. I didn't ignore his training at all. Show me where his training developed this super increase of durability with actual screen feats and not assumptions for once
6. You're the one ignoring things like. Again Drago was a superior fighter and a much bigger threat than anyone before. His punching power was not the sole reason he got so much attention
7. A system showed his power but no one else's. How is that proof he was superior? You act as if Apollo's statement is the sole factor here. You are strawmanning again. It was Apollo's statements, accompanied by the actual feats in the movie, along with Rocky himself verifying it by his actions/reactions. No getting around it
8. I did. Did you? Show me where he increased his durability in his head/neck as you and others have stated. I've been asking for this for a while now. I'm starting to see you are just full of it
9. Wow. Just wow. You can't tell if someone can hit harder than a number if they never have been measured in the same way. But we can tell if say they hit the same opponent and he only needed to shield himself from one of them...
10. Point destroyed above 🙂
1. You're missing the point kemoquane. Clubber, nor no one else was given the test because they weren't impressive enough
2. It was shown onscreen that Clubber has an n>2150 psi punch? What scene was this?
3. Again, missing the point of why Drago was being measured with such scientific means in the first place ( I'll give you a hint:
Spoiler:)
HE WAS MORE IMPRESSIVE THAN ANYONE WHO CAME BEFORE HIM
4. Not being able to stand toe-to-toe with Lang? His entire strategy in III was getting into Lang's face so Lang could throw everything at him and become fatigued. He then proceeded to kick Lang's ass in 3 rounds. Again, you ignore that Clubber tired out after 3 rounds whereas Drago fought Rocky for 15. Did you even see the Rocky films?
5. What, you want a scene where Paulie hits Rocky with a golf club to test his durability or something like that? Because that's utterly retarded. Not to mention unnecessary because for anybody who knows how the human body and how exercise works (i.e. everybody on the planet except for you and quanboy) , it's blatantly clear that Rocky's strenuous training is building his muscle mass and thus durability
6. If his punching power wasn't the reason for his attention they wouldn't have made a big display talking about how superior his punching power is to the average boxer. Again, simple logic be lost, juggerquan?
7. 😆 I literally almost fell on the ground laughing.
A system showed his power but no one else's. How is that proof he was superior?
Again, the the use of the system was an innovation because Drago's punching power had never been seen in the Rockyverse before.
It was Apollo's statements,
accompanied by the actual feats in the movie
feats of Clubber throwing everything he had at Rocky, who tanked it like nothing, tiring out after 3 rounds and getting his ass handed to him?
along with Rocky himself verifying it by his actions/reactions. No getting around it
Again, obvious logic that anything Rocky said about Clubber being his toughest opponent is invalidated because he didn't know about Drago. And it's hilarious you're relying on "actions/reactions", when his reaction to Clubber was to go jogging, whereas his reaction to Drago was to climb mountains. No getting around it 🙂
8. Again, did you want a retarded scene of him pulling up weight with his neck or some shit like that, just to make it clear to all of the dumb idiots viewing it that his neck muscles were being built? It's pretty clear that all of Rocky's muscles were being put to work in his IV training. But yea, keep ignoring the training and exposing your ignorance of basic human biology and exercise.
9.😂ing again. Dude, how the hell did you graduate high school, because you couldn't have possibly passed phys ed with this much of a lack of knowledge of how exercise works. You must be either skinnier than Pale Man or fatter than Jenkins from South Park. IT WAS BLATANTLY CLEAR THAT ROCKY'S RIGOROUS TRAINING WAS BUILDING HIS MUSCLES AND THUS DURABILITY and blatantly clear that his training was strenuous than his III training, and thus, using simple logic, rocky was more durable in IV than in III. An 8 year old could understand this. This is why he didn't need to shield himself as much from Drago. Also, you seem to have this hilarious misconception that Rocky kept his arms up the entire time like a little bytch. Rocky only blocked a few of Clubber's shots. Clubber got a lot in, and Rocky tanked them. Also, how are you so stupid as not to realize that if Clubber tired out after 3 rounds, and Drago went 15, Drago obviously has more energy, which combined with his much larger build than Clubber, equates to more strength. Again, simple logic and common sense that you want to ignore because you want to be on B.A.'s Bigcockus.
10. If by "point", you mean "your credibility", then you are more than correct.
It's pretty simple when it comes to Drago's punching prowess; he KO'd boxers wearing protective gear around their heads during sparring matches, with a handful of punches no less. Clubber KO'd an out of shape and badly prepped Rocky.
The difference between these feats is palpable. By a huge margin I might add.
Originally posted by Lestov16
1. You're missing the point kemoquane. Clubber, nor no one else was given the test because they weren't impressive enough2. It was shown onscreen that Clubber has an n>2150 psi punch? What scene was this?
3. Again, missing the point of why Drago was being measured with such scientific means in the first place ( I'll give you a hint:
Spoiler:)
HE WAS MORE IMPRESSIVE THAN ANYONE WHO CAME BEFORE HIM4. Not being able to stand toe-to-toe with Lang? His entire strategy in III was getting into Lang's face so Lang could throw everything at him and become fatigued. He then proceeded to kick Lang's ass in 3 rounds. Again, you ignore that [b]Clubber tired out after 3 rounds
whereas Drago fought Rocky for 15. Did you even see the Rocky films?5. What, you want a scene where Paulie hits Rocky with a golf club to test his durability or something like that? Because that's utterly retarded. Not to mention unnecessary because for anybody who knows how the human body and how exercise works (i.e. everybody on the planet except for you and quanboy) , it's blatantly clear that Rocky's strenuous training is building his muscle mass and thus durability
6. If his punching power wasn't the reason for his attention they wouldn't have made a big display talking about how superior his punching power is to the average boxer. Again, simple logic be lost, juggerquan?
7. 😆 I literally almost fell on the ground laughing.
Again, the the use of the system was an innovation because Drago's punching had never been seen in the Rockyverse before.
Please quote where Apollo says Clubber hits at over 2000 psi. Also, (blatantly obvious logic to every but you) anything Apollo said about Clubber being Rocky's toughest opponent is invalidated because he had not encountered Drago up until that point. Also, it's hilariously ironic how you are referencing statements from a guy who Drago outrighted murdered in the ring. If he was underestimating Drago, it's pretty clear his word is not 100% objective fact.
feats of Clubber throwing everything he had at Rocky, who tanked it like nothing, tiring out after 3 rounds and getting his ass handed to him?
Again, obvious logic that anything Rocky said about Clubber being his toughest opponent is invalidated because he didn't know about Drago. And it's hilarious you're relying on "actions/reactions", when his reaction to Clubber was to go jogging, whereas his reaction to Drago was to climb mountains. No getting around it 🙂
8. Again, did you want a retarded scene of him pulling up weight with his neck or some shit like that, just to make it clear to all of the dumb idiots viewing it that his neck muscles were being built? It's pretty clear that all of Rocky's muscles were being put to work in his IV training. But yea, keep ignoring the training and exposing your ignorance of basic human biology and exercise.
9.😂ing again. Dude, how the hell did you graduate high school, because you couldn't have possibly passed phys ed with this much of a lack of knowledge of how exercise works. You must be either skinnier than Pale Man or fatter than Jenkins from South Park. IT WAS BLATANTLY CLEAR THAT ROCKY'S RIGOROUS TRAINING WAS BUILDING HIS MUSCLES AND THUS DURABILITY and blatantly clear that his training was strenuous than his III training, and thus, using simple logic, rocky was more durable in IV than in III. An 8 year old could understand this. This is why he didn't need to shield himself as much from Drago. Also, you seem to have this hilarious misconception that Rocky kept his arms up the entire time like a little bytch. Rocky only blocked a few of Clubber's shots. Clubber got a lot in, and Rocky tanked them. Also, how are you so stupid as not to realize that if Clubber tired out after 3 rounds, and Drago went 15, Drago obviously has more energy, which combined with his much larger build than Clubber, equates to more strength. Again, simple logic and that you want to ignore because you want to be on B.A.'s Bigcockus.
10. If by "point", you mean "your credibility", then you are more than correct. [/B]
1. Then how would they know what the average boxer's rate was?
2. You're straw manning again
3. More impressive all around yes. Since Lang was never given the test it is impossible to use that to base whether he was superior or not on it. It's quite simple really.
4. Wrong. He went in with a completely different plan than the one he executed in the final round. It's like you never saw the movie before. I'll give you a clue to aid you here: remember when Creed asked Rocky what was he doing? That shows that Rocky was no longer following Creed's plan. I really shouldn't have to spell all this out for you
5. It's blatantly biased of you to just assume thing that aid your stance. Again I ask you to show me where it was clearly stated or shown. You instead spew nonsense to avoid admitting you have no leg to stand on
6. His punching power was indeed impressive. But if that was all he had Creed would have KO'd him easily. I know it's hard but try to think here.
7. So basically you have no proof? Good to know.
Again you hang onto the psi like it proves something between them It doesn't. Creed is no Balboa
That's just a lie so no need for a retort
His reaction to Lang was "Avoid at all costs". His reaction to Drago was " eat the hits like nothing". Very telling
8. So again you admit you have no proof. Good we can move on now
9. So by your logic if I built my leg muscles I could take hits from Brock Lesnar with no issue at all. See how stupid your stance is? Rocky never built the muscles you are attributing to him and your fanboism is just trying to make shit up to avoid admitting you are wrong. Sorry but you've lost. Again
!0. No I meant your entire point. Gone.
Originally posted by juggerman
How does climbing a mountain do so?The BS answer you gave does not solve the issue here.
Again what did he do exactly that vastly improved his neck muscles to the point that you are claiming them to be? All you've said was "He worked out". What exercises were shown that back your claim? The answer is none.
😆 Are you seriously asking how mountain-scaling builds muscles and endurance? Your level of comprehension of exercise is smaller than a garbage bin's.
😂
Not my fault you are too stupid to see how climbing mountains and pulling sleds full of people can build muscle mass, and also not my fault that you fail to see how much more extensive it is than his III training.
Originally posted by Lestov16
😆 Are you seriously asking how mountain-scaling builds muscles and endurance? Your level of comprehension of exercise is smaller than a garbage bin's.😂
Not my fault you are too stupid to see how climbing mountains and pulling sleds full of people can build muscle mass, and also not my fault that you fail to see how much more extensive it is than his III training.
juggerquan isn't interested in having an honest debate.
Originally posted by Lestov16
😆 Are you seriously asking how mountain-scaling builds muscles and endurance? Your level of comprehension of exercise is smaller than a garbage bin's.😂
Not my fault you are too stupid to see how climbing mountains and pulling sleds full of people can build muscle mass, and also not my fault that you fail to see how much more extensive it is than his III training.
No i'm asking where did Rocky build these super neck muscles you are trying to say he did. Still waiting on the scene
Again with the straw man. This is how you look:
Les- He built neck muscles to help him take hits
Jugg- Where did we see this?
L- Well he built muscle from climbing mountains
J- that's not what I asked. I asked where do we see him building these neck muscles?
L- OMG you don't know how muscles work?
J- Please just answer the question
L- Muscle helps take hits. Even kids know this.
You are avoiding the points here and moving the goal posts
Originally posted by juggerman
You couldn't even tell me what I was being dishonest about
Low-balling, exaggerating and ignoring context are all examples of dishonest debating and anyone that's actually read this debate knows that you've done all three; so you pretending not to know what I'm talking about is just further proof that you really are juggerquan.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Low-balling, exaggerating and ignoring context are all examples of dishonest debating and anyone that's actually read this debate knows that you've done all three; so you pretending not to know what I'm talking about is just further proof that you really are juggerquan.
I did none of those things.