Originally posted by Psychotron
No, I don't count them. And blocking doesn't protect you nearly as much as you think.He clearly had more stamina in Rocky 4. He ran up goddamn mountain ffs. Drago threw Rocky around, too.
It protects you hell of a lot more than taking the hit clean does
He did but you never proved his head was harder. Running up a mountain helps you tank head shots now? He never threw Rocky the way Clubber did
Originally posted by juggerman
It protects you hell of a lot more than taking the hit clean doesHe did but you never proved his head was harder. Running up a mountain helps you tank head shots now? He never threw Rocky the way Clubber did
Well, it's a good thing we saw Rocky take 20+ clean hits in a few seconds without any serious damage.
This is about stamina and staying power. Something very important in fighting sports and it played a huge part in all of Rocky's fights. Unless you think Apollo's training made Rocky's chin harder between his first and second fight with Lang.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Well, it's a good thing we saw Rocky take 20+ clean hits in a few seconds without any serious damage.This is about stamina and staying power. Something very important in fighting sports and it played a huge part in all of Rocky's fights. Unless you think Apollo's training made Rocky's chin harder between his first and second fight with Lang.
I guess you think Rocky always falls over and basically flips when he isn't hurt right?
No his training made Rocky able to avoid 90% of the hits. Without it he would have fought like a brick like he always does and would have gotten KO'd again
Originally posted by juggerman
I guess you think Rocky always falls over and basically flips when he isn't hurt right?No his training made Rocky able to avoid 90% of the hits. Without it he would have fought like a brick like he always does and would have gotten KO'd again
If he can get up then he's not that hurt. And he gets knocked down in every fight.
90%. lolololololol Get serious. Go watch a real boxing match. Just because Rocky dodged like a few hits doesn't mean he didn't fight like brick. Also what Lestov said.
Originally posted by Lestov16
LOL, your entire argument is based on what is at best poor consistent fight choreography and at worst poor observational judgement. Hell will freeze over before Clubber can come close to hitting at over 2,000 psi.
So basically you would like to disregard screen feats? That's a new way of debating i guess
Originally posted by Psychotron
If he can get up then he's not that hurt. And he gets knocked down in every fight.90%. lolololololol Get serious. Go watch a real boxing match. Just because Rocky dodged like a few hits doesn't mean he didn't fight like brick. Also what Lestov said.
That is the dumbest thing I think you've said here. Drago got up after the fight with Rocky right? Guess he was never hurt. Probably just resting his eyes.
Yup 90%. This wasn't a real boxing match. This was Rocky III. He dodged more than a few and I never said he fought like a brick in this fight. I said that's how he normally fights. Also Lestov has no point at all
My point is that you are basing your argument on one variable when all evidence in the films clearly indicates that Drago is superior to Clubber. your argument is only "Rocky had to block more", which is nothing but poor fight choreography.
All dialogue in Rocky 4 makes it quite clear that Drago is better than any boxer Rocky's faced before him, including Clubber. Again, if you're really going to argue that Stallone made Rocky 4 with the intent of making Rocky face a weaker opponent than the previous film, that just means you are just ignoring common sense. Your only argument is essentially a small plot hole. If that's all you have to go on, that's some pretty shitty debating.
Originally posted by juggerman
That is the dumbest thing I think you've said here. Drago got up after the fight with Rocky right? Guess he was never hurt. Probably just resting his eyes.Yup 90%. This wasn't a real boxing match. This was Rocky III. He dodged more than a few and I never said he fought like a brick in this fight. I said that's how he normally fights. Also Lestov has no point at all
Drago didn't get up DURING the fight, Rocky did, so he was obviously less hurt than Drago. Same for Clubber, he knocked Rocky down but couldn't keep him down.
Stop pulling numbers out of your ass. He fought like a brick with added elements of Mohammad Ali. That's it. And Lestov is right, you're basing your entire argument that Lang is somehow stronger than Drago just because Rocky did a few dodges.
Originally posted by Lestov16
My point is that you are basing your argument on one variable when all evidence in the films clearly indicates that Drago is superior to Clubber. your argument is only "Rocky had to block more", which is nothing but poor fight choreography.All dialogue in Rocky 4 makes it quite clear that Drago is better than any boxer Rocky's faced before him, including Clubber. Again, if you're really going to argue that Stallone made Rocky 4 with the intent of making Rocky face a weaker opponent than the previous film, that just means you are just ignoring common sense. Your only argument is essentially a small plot hole. If that's all you have to go on, that's some pretty shitty debating.
And what you're saying is "I'm going to ignore what actually happened in the film"
I'm not saying there was the intent to make Drago weaker cuz in all aspects he was the much more dangerous opponent. But when we look at the story behind everything the main plot point of Rocky's training in 3 was he absolutely could not stand toe to toe with Clubber. He needed to train with Creed to learn how to stick and move for the sole reason that he could not take Lang's puinches like he could take anyone else's. No matter how much you want to ignore and bury this, it is still a big part of the movie
Originally posted by Psychotron
Drago didn't get up DURING the fight, Rocky did, so he was obviously less hurt than Drago. Same for Clubber, he knocked Rocky down but couldn't keep him down.Stop pulling numbers out of your ass. He fought like a brick with added elements of Mohammad Ali. That's it. And Lestov is right, you're basing your entire argument that Lang is somehow stronger than Drago just because Rocky did a few dodges.
Again it doesn't matter because according to your logic if they get up they are not hurt in the least
You mean like you've been doing with your 50% nonsense? He fought like an actual trained boxer and not like the brawler he always fights as. Point still remains. He needed to avoid Lang but could endure Drago
Originally posted by Lestov16
It's an extremely weak argument. Also, even though it was caused by years of damage, I'm pretty sure Drago's 15-round fight contributed more to Rocky's retirement than the quick 3 rounds in which he trounced Clubber.
Well fighting like Rocky did, pretty much anyone would get brain damage after 15 rounds of that. The man decided to take every hit on the forehead and jaw. While he didn't hit as hard as Lang he still hit like a damn monster.
Originally posted by juggerman
And what you're saying is "I'm going to ignore what actually happened in the film"
Yes, because it was clearly bad fight choreography/ minor plot hole. It's like you are some kind of delusional idiot who honestly believes that in 1985, when filming the final fight, Stallone was like
"Alright, even though every line of the script makes it blatantly obvious that Drago is Rocky's toughest opponent thus far, let's make sure that when Rocky is fighting Drago, he doesn't block as much as when he fights Clubber, because I'm trying to establish pinpoint continuity with these films, and it wasn't just a minor plot hole that was glaringly overlooked.
I mean, it's not like, maybe, just maybe, my way of showcasing Rocky's durability in this fight is making him tank over 2,000 psi shots to the face for 15 rounds, and again instead of focusing on establish the most solid continuity in cinematic history, I'm establishing new limitations on the character and pushing Rocky past the previous distance he went, since, once again, this is clearly supposed to be the toughest guy he has ever faced.
I mean, that would be everyone's common sense way of thinking about it. but they'd be wrong. I really trying to establish continuity so people know Clubber is better than Drago."
If you honestly think that was the intent of the filmmakers, you've gone full Quan mode, man.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Yes, because it was clearly bad fight choreography/ minor plot hole. It's like you are some kind of delusional idiot who honestly believes that in 1985, when filming the final fight, Stallone was like"Alright, even though every line of the script makes it blatantly obvious that Drago is Rocky's toughest opponent thus far, let's make sure that when Rocky is fighting Drago, he doesn't block as much as when he fights Clubber, because I'm trying to establish pinpoint continuity with these films, and it wasn't just a minor plot hole that was glaringly overlooked.
I mean, it's not like, maybe, just maybe, my way of showcasing Rocky's durability in this fight is making him tank over 2,000 psi shots to the face for 15 rounds, and again instead of focusing on establish the most solid continuity in cinematic history, I'm establishing new limitations on the character and pushing Rocky past the previous distance he went, since, once again, [b]this is clearly supposed to be the toughest guy he has ever faced
.I mean, that would be everyone's common sense way of thinking about it. but they'd be wrong. I really trying to establish continuity so people know Clubber is better than Drago."
If you honestly think that was the intent of the filmmakers, you've gone full Quan mode, man. [/B]
I never once said it was his intent. But feats are feats. Basically you want me to ignore what was clearly shown in favor of what you believe should be the case right?
Drago could easily be the toughest and most dangerous opponent Rocky has ever faced without being the absolutely hardest hitting. As I've said in previous comments, Drago has Lang on stamina, skill, reach, durability and pretty much every other aspect. So why does he NEED to be the hardest hitting to be Rocky's biggest challenge? The answer is he doesn't.
If Lang hit at a 10 and Drago hit at an 8 Drago would still be the toughest due to all the other advantages he has.
Originally posted by juggerman
Again it doesn't matter because according to your logic if they get up they are not hurt in the leastYou mean like you've been doing with your 50% nonsense? He fought like an actual trained boxer and not like the brawler he always fights as. Point still remains. He needed to avoid Lang but could endure Drago
Do you need to be spoon fed? I obviously meant that if a combatant can get up then he's not incapacitated. Lang hurt Rocky, yes, but just not enough to put him down. Drago, on the other hand, gave him brain damage.
No, he did not. Rocky movies have always had unrealistic choreography. He did not "need" to avoid Lang as evidenced by all the clean shots he took from him. Rocky simply chose a different style for that match.