Originally posted by quanchi112
I've already acknowledged Link is stronger than any human. His combat strength isn't consistent with this ie. he doesn't just massively dog out ogres, knights in the game or rip them in half due to an unfair strength advantage. Nothing new here.
That's because it's not how the game works. Link doesn't rip people apart because he has a sword. Do you know what he does with this sword? He slices through armor and cuts giant monsters to pieces.
I always said he was superhuman compared to human beings just not to the lengths you place him at.
You deny that Link is strong enough to throw Dangoro or smash Blizzeta against a wall? Which he has done on screen?
This was from zant's interaction as well so if they take out Zant we see Dorf cannot do this on his own which is my entire point. If Dorf could make portals back to hyrule he wouldn't have needed zant in the first place.
He learned to. Don't forget, he's been feeding on Twili magic and learned to use it. Zant helped him get to that point, yes, but don't forget that all of Zant's power was given to him by Ganondorf. Heck, Zant calls Ganondorf the King of Twilight right there. Then Ganon goes ahead and uses twilight portals to ambush Link. You're still stuck on this past Ganondorf thing; present Ganondorf makes dimensional portals at will.
Yes, once Dorf's powers were at an all time high and the fact Zant also had this power made it easy for Dorf to eventually return. So according to your logic he was weakened big time by the sages and took hundreds of years to gain more power through an intermediate to return. This actually hurts Dorf and the triforce of power's standing. Nicely done.
You mean how Past Ganondorf had never used the Triforce of Power before and was banished by an extremely powerful object? Heck, he still had enough power to fake godhood and turn Zant into a massively powerful sorcerer, and...actually I don't recall anyone mentioning Ganondorf was weakened, now that I think about it. He just said he was awakened by the Twili's hatred and the Sages, well...
Look at this. According to Midna, the Twilight Realm was peaceful before an evil power (that's Ganondorf) invaded the realm. Then, of course, the Sages admit that sending Ganondorf there was a careless move, since his mere presence apparently corrupted the place, and Ganondorf ended up getting stronger by feeding on the hate. I hereby revise my conclusion: Ganondorf was not weakened by the Sages, and he only needed Zant to escape. After which, he had enough stolen Twili magic to use it himself.
You're speculating here but it doesn't matter as a magical item has shown the power to negate the triforce of power and as you have already stated he needed a lot of time/hate to return to his full power with the aid of someone else thus taking away from dorf's power and the fact he needed raw emotion to power himself up to normal levels which still wasn't enough.
See revised conclusion, above. Ganondorf lacked the ability for dimensional travel until after he escaped, but then he was perfectly capable of it. As for the Master Sword, it is specifically stated to be more effective against evil power, such as Ganondorf with the Triforce of Power. Not just any power can cancel the Triforce of Power, it needs to be holy of have powers like the Master Sword. What do you have in mind for this purpose?
In vs. threads you don't need to prove a plot device is similar to another one only powerful enough to get the job done. It's like saying the Living Tribunal who can destroy entire universes isn't powerful enough to defeat Dorf which is plain ridiculous.
Might need to prove he can keep him dead, though, which is what the Master Sword can do. As I've shown you, the Master Sword works because it's designed to counter evil power and is shown to remove such. Maybe you can harm Ganondorf, but causing the Triforce of Power to fail is something only something like the Master Sword can do. Prove that.
All mkers need to do is kill Zant and bfr Dorf anyways which Quan Chi alone can accomplish.
As long as Ganondorf is alive, Zant be resurrected without cease. And don't forget about Link and Midna.
Quan Chi is also the most powerful sorcerer/necromancer in the mk verse and has control over the dead so Zant would as anyone else felled in battle who was taken to the netherrealm would be his to command.
Both Ganondorf and Zant have also shown this. They can create redeads (zombies,) stalfos (skeletons,) and poes (ghosts) in addition to Ganondorf being able to revive Zant and Zant being able to bring Stallord to life. Quan Chi is not the only necromancer here, far from the best.
Link needs the boots which Bo also has the strength to do so. It's just a question of altering your own weight and it seems anyone can do so in hyrule. Link is strong enough to get the job done but when he comes across foes with armor he needs to strike with skill he is seen as an equal to his foes strength wise.
Are you saying everyone in Hyrule is as strong as clearly superhuman Link and Bo? I agree with you that Link is strong enough to get the job done, but I still have the evidence that says "strong enough" is tossing Gorons and giant ice or metal blocks. Oh, and slicing armor to pieces.
Mkers strength feats are combat related in the fact they rip each other's arms off, cut their heads off, rip their bodies in half, etc. Link doesn't have the combat strength push he needs here which matters. If Link sees an inanimate object through gear he can persevere but without it he is just a hyrulian trying to land the killer blow. He also has destiny on his side which he won't have here.
And Link throws Gorons and giant ice masses. He cuts armor apart and kills giant monsters with a sword. Link is strong enough to do this, since he is clearly shown as able to, and hitting an MKer with a sword will kill them just the same. Can you point to what "destiny on his side" actually means?
Link defeats Bo but that doesn't mean he's stronger just that he eventually has to win sooner or later. If he is stronger it's the slightest of advantages and he wins due to skill and technique as well otherwise he'd easily manhandle Bo. Bo makes it clear without the boots neither can do a thing to a goron.
Link fought Bo once, and defeated him once with barely any knowledge of Sumo. Then he defeated a Goron elder at the same sport. So Link defeated two master wrestlers with barely an hour of training. He's obviously got an edge in strength, and that's early enough for Link to not be extremely strong quite yet. All the boots do is prevent him from getting pushed around; otherwise, he's strong enough push and lift Gorons. Even without the boots he can do this. Need I remind you that he almost stopped it, and the only thing preventing him from doing so is the cliff?
The first scene is due to the force and speed one would also have riding a horse and the second scene is due to the massive weapon Link can barely hold up.
It's a spin attack, and King Bulblin goes in a different direction than the horse was moving. If it was doing to the horse, he'd has flown in front of Link, not to the side. And as for Blizzeta, that's the whole point. He hit her with the Ball and Chain, and she was sent flying. The massive weapon had all of Link's strength behind it, unless you think it multiplied the amount of force Link hit with?
Link always does improve through experience and skill level changes but his strength doesn't drastically change he just gets gear items necessary to complete his quest.
Unless those items explicitly increase his strength, that doesn't matter. He can still lift an armored Goron, and a blow from him knocks a giant ice mass go flying back. You can't deny those feats.
I see scorpion as taking out Link. The spear, hellfire, or his experience as a ninja seem too much for Link to overcome.
Please provide feats. A spear won't get past Link's shield, and Link has dealt with magical fire and stealth before. Doesn't sound like anything Link hasn't faced.
For starters, because I hadn't seen it before, as I've had more important things on my mind as of late. At any rate, the sentence "Both worlds band together with each other." in the original post fulfills the army rule.
Besides, it's run so completely off-topic that I'm going to let the minions have a little fun before I kill it entirely.
Originally posted by The ScenarioYeah, he attacks him with a sword thus dearmoring him. This is Link in a nutshell. Link still doesn't sever heads or what not with the sword. Mkers can do this on strength alone it's pretty common place.
That's because it's not how the game works. Link doesn't rip people apart because he has a sword. Do you know what he does with this sword? He slices through armor and cuts giant monsters to pieces.You deny that Link is strong enough to throw Dangoro or smash Blizzeta against a wall? Which he has done on screen?
He learned to. Don't forget, he's been feeding on Twili magic and learned to use it. Zant helped him get to that point, yes, but don't forget that all of Zant's power was given to him by Ganondorf. Heck, Zant calls Ganondorf the King of Twilight right there. Then Ganon goes ahead and uses twilight portals to ambush Link. You're still stuck on this past Ganondorf thing; present Ganondorf makes dimensional portals at will.
You mean how Past Ganondorf had never used the Triforce of Power before and was banished by an extremely powerful object? Heck, he still had enough power to fake godhood and turn Zant into a massively powerful sorcerer, and...actually I don't recall anyone mentioning Ganondorf was weakened, now that I think about it. He just said he was awakened by the Twili's hatred and the Sages, well...
Look at this. According to Midna, the Twilight Realm was peaceful before an evil power (that's Ganondorf) invaded the realm. Then, of course, the Sages admit that sending Ganondorf there was a careless move, since his mere presence apparently corrupted the place, and Ganondorf ended up getting stronger by feeding on the hate. I hereby revise my conclusion: Ganondorf was not weakened by the Sages, and he only needed Zant to escape. After which, he had enough stolen Twili magic to use it himself.
See revised conclusion, above. Ganondorf lacked the ability for dimensional travel until after he escaped, but then he was perfectly capable of it. As for the Master Sword, it is specifically stated to be more effective against evil power, such as Ganondorf with the Triforce of Power. Not just any power can cancel the Triforce of Power, it needs to be holy of have powers like the Master Sword. What do you have in mind for this purpose?
Might need to prove he can keep him dead, though, which is what the Master Sword can do. As I've shown you, the Master Sword works because it's designed to counter evil power and is shown to remove such. Maybe you can harm Ganondorf, but causing the Triforce of Power to fail is something only something like the Master Sword can do. Prove that.
As long as Ganondorf is alive, Zant be resurrected without cease. And don't forget about Link and Midna.
Both Ganondorf and Zant have also shown this. They can create redeads (zombies,) stalfos (skeletons,) and poes (ghosts) in addition to Ganondorf being able to revive Zant and Zant being able to bring Stallord to life. Quan Chi is not the only necromancer here, far from the best.
Are you saying everyone in Hyrule is as strong as clearly superhuman Link and Bo? I agree with you that Link is strong enough to get the job done, but I still have the evidence that says "strong enough" is tossing Gorons and giant ice or metal blocks. Oh, and slicing armor to pieces.
And Link throws Gorons and giant ice masses. He cuts armor apart and kills giant monsters with a sword. Link is strong enough to do this, since he is clearly shown as able to, and hitting an MKer with a sword will kill them just the same. Can you point to what "destiny on his side" actually means?
Link fought Bo once, and defeated him once with barely any knowledge of Sumo. Then he defeated a Goron elder at the same sport. So Link defeated two master wrestlers with barely an hour of training. He's obviously got an edge in strength, and that's early enough for Link to not be extremely strong quite yet. All the boots do is prevent him from getting pushed around; otherwise, he's strong enough push and lift Gorons. Even without the boots he can do this. Need I remind you that he almost stopped it, and the only thing preventing him from doing so is the cliff?
It's a spin attack, and King Bulblin goes in a different direction than the horse was moving. If it was doing to the horse, he'd has flown in front of Link, not to the side. And as for Blizzeta, that's the whole point. He hit her with the Ball and Chain, and she was sent flying. The massive weapon had all of Link's strength behind it, unless you think it multiplied the amount of force Link hit with?
Unless those items explicitly increase his strength, that doesn't matter. He can still lift an armored Goron, and a blow from him knocks a giant ice mass go flying back. You can't deny those feats.
Please provide feats. A spear won't get past Link's shield, and Link has dealt with magical fire and stealth before. Doesn't sound like anything Link hasn't faced.
I don't deny he can do so in the right set of circumstances with the proper gear, sure. I don't deny things occur I just think you overexaggerate strength while minimizing gear or the circumstances.
So this cutscene proves Dorf was not only bfr'd but ko'd due to the injuries either of the bfr alone or the injuries sustained prior to or them combined. He awoke means ko'd for a long time despite having the triforce of power backing him which isn't very impressive.
Using portals in a room doesn't prove he can cross over from worlds when he hasn't shown the ability to do so on his own without the aid of zant. He can use them close by sure but crossover into outworld not a chance.
It's funny how still to this day you act like the mirror is out of bounds but the triforce of power isn't. They are both plot items like most fictional relics but one you deem unfair while the other you excuse.
If he was awakened he wasn't just in another realm he was unconscious. That actually takes away from him more since he was unconscious for a hundred years or so.
Dorf fed on outside emotion to fuel his power so he isn't even close to as powerful as you previously thought since he grew in power based on the emotions of others. Even then he was still soundly defeated despite being more powerful than before by one inexperienced warrior by mk standards, aka hundreds of years experience.
Dorf was knocked unconscious for a hundred years or so thus stating the master sword is required to defeat him is ridiculous since he was already defeated minus the master sword. You want to give credence to hryule's plot device and then claim it applies to the mk universe which has entirely different relics of power/characters of power so thus the master sword only being able to slay Dorf only pertains to hyrule/twilight realm not outworld/mk's earth, etc.
Based off of your logic if a guy is evil and thus more powerful than dorf he can't kill him because it needs to be holy which is simply off the mark and unreasonable.
I think Raiden, Quan Chi, Shang Tsung, Shao Kahn, Liu Kang, etc. are capable of besting Dorf. You've already proven laying a beating on dorf plus a bfr means he goes unconscious.
It's only something the master sword can do in loz games which has no basis for mk games. It'd be like me saying who kills Raiden. He can self destruct and reform under his own power thus no one save Shao Kahn can truly kill him with Blaze's amp after the events of Armageddon. It's taking one games plot devices and falsely acting like it holds true for another fictional universe outside it's own. It's silly.
Quan Chi will have power over him in the netherealm once he's dead. Dorf's powers don't hold sway over the netherealm's.
Midna is someone Sektor, Cyrax, and cyber Sub Zero along with the Link Kieu would defeat.
Yes, Zant can give temporary life to a giant skeletal structure but Quan Chi can also raise skeletons out of the ground in combat and has power over the dead. He also has the power to turn ninja's into unholy specters of vengeance and turn the origial Sub Zero into a warrior with shadow powers. He can split into two beings.
In link's verse these feats aren't insane they are gear induced feats that Link isn't the only one capable of doing so. Yes, Link can replicate these with the proper gear in the right set of circumstances. Killing someone with armor on with a sword isn't a feat to be praised, lol.
Destiny means he kills Dorf as there is no avoiding it. It's going to happen. There is nothing going to happen here destiny hasn't chosen a winner unlike in hyrule where evil is always fated to lose sooner or later.
Hitting an mker would hurt him but not kill him unless it was a major precise attack just like Link doesn't run around oneshotting ogres much less mk elite fighters.
He doesn't have an edge in strength he wins due to both comparable strength and skill. It's also not canon you defeat Bo immediately so eventually you have to but it isn't canon right away. Link needs the gear just like Bo did. Pretty simple.
Any attack when on top of a horse is going to hit with a lot more force than if he stood and did so. This is common sense. The massive weapon Link used made it possible not by Link's strength alone. Without the massive weapon he can barely wield he can't do so on strength alone so if he chooses to wield this weapon he will be a sitting target.
Not denying the feats I am not just leaving out the fact that Bo made it clear you need the boots to make up for the weight advantage so in the game it makes sense for the boots to make the feat possible even though in real life it just doesn't make any sense. I already explained the other one in this post.
He really doesn't have many on screen feats as his story is basically introduced from previous games.
This trailer is a good indication imo of how Scorpion's 'powers and movement speeds are.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Dorf has no strength feats of his own and just like Link the combatants also have similar strength to dorf based off of how they interact with Link. Dorf would no doubt win due to power and skill level not some delusional strength advantage you have made up for him.In comics if you're super strong a car will destroy itself running into you in the game Link has to brace himsel fand use technique to stop a goat. Thus Link isn't super strong he's just stronger than any human just like Mk fighters are.
Overpowering dorf just proves he overpowers Dorf. Dorf doesn't have any notable strength feats outside Link's own inanimate gear induced feats. Both are stronger than any human but in the same strength class.
So the monkey he fights has better strength feats than a guy with arm ripping strength. I guess the ogres and the plants have superior strength feats to than any and all mk fighters. I don't even take you seriously at this point.
Again the sages recovered and only lost one man and easily defeated Dorf. Link defeated Dorf. Conclusion Dorf not only failed to solo any armies on his own he lost both times he ever fought a group or a person.
Just save me the time and say twilight wins because you like them more. You don't even have any proof to your side and always claim he solos armies despite him being defeated both times he showed up.
Quan does make a fair point here about how to assess these guys. I don't think Ganondorf would have the juice to stand up to team up of Quan-Chi, Shang Tsung and Shao Khan on his own.
And while Link does have impressive victories, look at his rogues gallery. Plenty of those monsters can hurt him and non are as skilled or even as dangerous (because a lot of them lack the intelligence) as the MK elite warriors.
Most of his rogues gallery consists of lower scale monsters, that's who threatens him and that's who he fights. The MK fighters are threatened by each other, certainly a more dangerous arena.
That would be equivalent to Link fighting people on the level of Dark Link or Ganondorf constantly, tournament after tournament. I guarantee you under those circumstances you won't see any strength feats, just death and carnage.
Many of these MK fighters are magically and mystically gifted in ways that Link isn't. Even brutes like Baraka have mystical offensive powers.
So while these humanoids in MK don't immediately look as impressive as Dangoro, Volvaggia (sp?) and the rest, they're more intelligent and have more skill and combat tools than anyone Link has faced, save Ganondorf (and he doesn't really use much of the impressive power people attribute to him in their battles).
Many of these MK guys are faster and more mobile than even Link in combat.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yeah, he attacks him with a sword thus dearmoring him. This is Link in a nutshell. Link still doesn't sever heads or what not with the sword. Mkers can do this on strength alone it's pretty common place.
Just because Legend of Zelda isn't a gorefest, it doesn't mean Link is weak. By you're argument, Link can make monsters explode with a sword. In any case I've shown he cuts right through armor with ease, which is a great indicator of strength.
I don't deny he can do so in the right set of circumstances with the proper gear, sure. I don't deny things occur I just think you overexaggerate strength while minimizing gear or the circumstances.
I think you're over estimating the effect that Link's gear has. Look, let's try something.
0:54, Dangoro rolls at Link, but is unable to move him due to the Iron Boots. Do you agree?
0:56, Dangoro has stopped, so the Iron Boots aren't needed anymore. Link then lifts and throws him. Do you agree?
My point here is that for 0:54, Link does need the Iron Boots, and they help him stop Dangoro. For 0:56, however, Dangoro is no longer rolling towards Link, and he does not need the boots in order to lift him. You are correct in that Link needs the boots in order to halt Dangoro's momentum, but if you try to claim that Link needs the boots to lift Dangoro, you'd be wrong. Yes, I agree that the boots make the feat possible, by letting Link stop Dangoro. However, he does not need the boots for the lifting and throwing.
So this cutscene proves Dorf was not only bfr'd but ko'd due to the injuries either of the bfr alone or the injuries sustained prior to or them combined. He awoke means ko'd for a long time despite having the triforce of power backing him which isn't very impressive.
No. Watch the cutscene again. He was perfectly fine with a sword through his chest, and if anything would injure him it would be the disintegration effect of the Mirror of Twilight. Hey, Quanchi, you just proved that Ganondorf survived being disintegrated completely. Congratulations. And before you forget, Ganondorf presence in the Twilight Realm corrupted it, and it made him stronger. Oops.
Using portals in a room doesn't prove he can cross over from worlds when he hasn't shown the ability to do so on his own without the aid of zant. He can use them close by sure but crossover into outworld not a chance.
Ganondorf gave power to Zant. Zant, using Ganondorf's power, can create portals to cross dimensions. Ganondorf, using his own power, can create portals to cross dimensions. What's so hard to understand about this?
It's funny how still to this day you act like the mirror is out of bounds but the triforce of power isn't. They are both plot items like most fictional relics but one you deem unfair while the other you excuse.
Quote where I said the Mirror of Twilight is unfair. I never said
anything of the sort, and if you remember, Ganondorf's power broke the Mirror of Twilight, proving that he is stronger than it. What you are doing, however, is trying to use something has been proven to not work anymore, and using Ganondorf at his weakest, ignoring the fact that he is stronger now. Do you understand that Ganondorf grows in power, too?
If he was awakened he wasn't just in another realm he was unconscious. That actually takes away from him more since he was unconscious for a hundred years or so.
Prove it was a hundred years, and prove he was unconscious for the entire time. Ganondorf, after being banished to the Twilight Realm, corrupted it and got stronger from feeding on the hate. The Sages regard banishing him as a terrible mistake. Still, I'd advise you to stop lowballing Past Ganondorf and ignoring the fact he is stronger than he was when stuff like that actually fazed him.
Dorf fed on outside emotion to fuel his power so he isn't even close to as powerful as you previously thought since he grew in power based on the emotions of others. Even then he was still soundly defeated despite being more powerful than before by one inexperienced warrior by mk standards, aka hundreds of years experience.
What? Again, Past Ganondorf < Present Ganondorf, and as you continued to ignore, Ganondorf received the Triforce of Power not five seconds before. He was inexperienced, weaker than normal, and came back from the dead once already. You are lowballing horrendously, try using the Present Ganondorf, 'k?
Dorf was knocked unconscious for a hundred years or so thus stating the master sword is required to defeat him is ridiculous since he was already defeated minus the master sword. You want to give credence to hryule's plot device and then claim it applies to the mk universe which has entirely different relics of power/characters of power so thus the master sword only being able to slay Dorf only pertains to hyrule/twilight realm not outworld/mk's earth, etc.
Please prove that. Did you forget that the BFR made him stronger? And that it no longer works since Ganondorf can make portals? I never said that only Master Sword was required to defeat Ganondorf, I said that it could kill him, and that something with similar properties could do the same. Evil's Bane, capable of canceling powers, etc. is what you need.
Based off of your logic if a guy is evil and thus more powerful than dorf he can't kill him because it needs to be holy which is simply off the mark and unreasonable.
No, I said the opposite. You may not need holy to necessarily kill him, but as evidenced you need it to make him stay dead. You need Evil's Bane or canceling the Triforce to make not come back to life. Yes, he could be killed with enough power, but he will come back in a few seconds if you don't have the stuff to make him stay down.
I think Raiden, Quan Chi, Shang Tsung, Shao Kahn, Liu Kang, etc. are capable of besting Dorf. You've already proven laying a beating on dorf plus a bfr means he goes unconscious.
I did no such thing. I proved that Ganondorf survived a sword through the chest and disintegration, and came back from a BFR, gaining the ability make portals in the process. Maybe they can beat him, maybe they can't, but keeping him dead is a bigger problem.
It's only something the master sword can do in loz games which has no basis for mk games. It'd be like me saying who kills Raiden. He can self destruct and reform under his own power thus no one save Shao Kahn can truly kill him with Blaze's amp after the events of Armageddon. It's taking one games plot devices and falsely acting like it holds true for another fictional universe outside it's own. It's silly.
Don't see why it wouldn't, since it's an explicit ability. Unless you have some ability that makes Ganondorf stay dead or can get past his castle exploding durability, he's not going down permanently.
Quan Chi will have power over him in the netherealm once he's dead. Dorf's powers don't hold sway over the netherealm's.
That could work, to make him stay, for example. However, Ganondorf does have power over the dead, and can come back from the dead as he has shown. He can create undead and revive people, that's enough.
Midna is someone Sektor, Cyrax, and cyber Sub Zero along with the Link Kieu would defeat.
What can they do? I've seen Sub-Zero, and Midna would stomp him into the ground. Midna can shapeshift, go intangible, teleport herself and others, and has massively powerful TK. Not to mention her Fused Shadow monster form. She's more powerful than Zant.
Yes, Zant can give temporary life to a giant skeletal structure but Quan Chi can also raise skeletons out of the ground in combat and has power over the dead. He also has the power to turn ninja's into unholy specters of vengeance and turn the origial Sub Zero into a warrior with shadow powers. He can split into two beings.
Temporary? That would last until the sword had been destroyed, as you remember Stallord kept going after his spine and body were destroyed. He and Ganondorf have also created skeletal warriors, not mention zombies and ghosts. He can transform people into Shadow Beasts or into imps and take away their powers.
In link's verse these feats aren't insane they are gear induced feats that Link isn't the only one capable of doing so. Yes, Link can replicate these with the proper gear in the right set of circumstances. Killing someone with armor on with a sword isn't a feat to be praised, lol.
So all Hylians can toss Gorons and giant ice masses? No, you're just overestimating the effects of Link's gear again, since Link's feats are clearly superhuman. You have no idea how armor works, do you? It's supposed to protect from sword, not get sliced off the second a sword hits it. Link cutting through armor is yet another example of his superhuman abilities.
Destiny means he kills Dorf as there is no avoiding it. It's going to happen. There is nothing going to happen here destiny hasn't chosen a winner unlike in hyrule where evil is always fated to lose sooner or later.
Ah, so you''re trying to deny all of Link's feats with PIS. Destiny said he'd win, so none of Link's feats are valid? That seems desperate to me, seeing as Link wins through his skill, strength, and courage, with a bit of help from the Master Sword.
Hitting an mker would hurt him but not kill him unless it was a major precise attack just like Link doesn't run around oneshotting ogres much less mk elite fighters.
Do MK fighters have superhuman durability or something? A sword will kill a human, so unless you can prove MK fighters can resist sword strikes they're going down like a human.
He doesn't have an edge in strength he wins due to both comparable strength and skill. It's also not canon you defeat Bo immediately so eventually you have to but it isn't canon right away. Link needs the gear just like Bo did. Pretty simple.
That is such a ridiculous double standard. Link winning on his first isn't canon but not killing monsters in one hit somehow is? That's called game mechanic to preserve the challenge. Anyway, Bo is superhuman because he can wrestle Gorons, pretty simple. As was said before, Link doesn't need boots to lift, just to stop them.
Any attack when on top of a horse is going to hit with a lot more force than if he stood and did so. This is common sense. The massive weapon Link used made it possible not by Link's strength alone. Without the massive weapon he can barely wield he can't do so on strength alone so if he chooses to wield this weapon he will be a sitting target.
The hit is also going to travel in the direction the horse is moving, not sideways. This is common physics. No, you not understanding that all the force from the Ball and Chain comes from Link throwing it. He's still applying the force needed, so it's still his strength throwing Blizzeta. To deny this is to deny how physics works.
Not denying the feats I am not just leaving out the fact that Bo made it clear you need the boots to make up for the weight advantage so in the game it makes sense for the boots to make the feat possible even though in real life it just doesn't make any sense. I already explained the other one in this post.
No, it does make sense that being heavier will stop someone from moving you. Link needs the Iron Boots to stop Gorons as I've said, but see again the "stop vs. lift" thing I went over earlier. Link doesn't need the boots to lift Gorons. So he is still clearly superhuman.
He really doesn't have many on screen feats as his story is basically introduced from previous games.This trailer is a good indication imo of how Scorpion's 'powers and movement speeds are.
'k, he looks a little slower than Zant, and teleports a little. Not quite as good as Zant, it looks like. Link shouldn't have too many problems with him.
Originally posted by Allankles
Quan does make a fair point here about how to assess these guys. I don't think Ganondorf would have the juice to stand up to team up of Quan-Chi, Shang Tsung and Shao Khan on his own.
While I still don't have a concrete idea of these guys' capabilities, I'll just ask if any of them have caused a castle to explode, or have been hit by such a force. If they can't, they will have a very difficult time even hurting Ganondorf.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-z1xEoGkWA
And while Link does have impressive victories, look at his rogues gallery. Plenty of those monsters can hurt him and non are as skilled or even as dangerous (because a lot of them lack the intelligence) as the MK elite warriors.
True, but many of them are absolutely gigantic, or powerful sorcerers like Zant and Ganondorf. Link takes them down relatively easily despite the massive size or magic advantage.
Most of his rogues gallery consists of lower scale monsters, that's who threatens him and that's who he fights. The MK fighters are threatened by each other, certainly a more dangerous arena.
Mostly, but trying to imply Link can only fight giant monsters would be a mistake, as he often goes up against skilled fighters like Darknuts or Stalfos, granted that those don't have have magic. Then again, there's Zant, who uses both magic and swords, not to mention Ganondorf.
That would be equivalent to Link fighting people on the level of Dark Link or Ganondorf constantly, tournament after tournament. I guarantee you under those circumstances you won't see any strength feats, just death and carnage.
From what I've seen, they're closer to Zant's level, as long as he isn't transforming everything. While Zant was a problem early in the adventure, Link took him out relatively easily, at least compared to Ganondorf.
Many of these MK fighters are magically and mystically gifted in ways that Link isn't. Even brutes like Baraka have mystical offensive powers.
True, Twilight Princess Link is not a magic user, but he's not unfamiliar with them, having fought them before. Once again, Zant and Ganondorf fulfill this role, and from the little I've seen of MK, both are a little too much for any one MK fighter.
So while these humanoids in MK don't immediately look as impressive as Dangoro, Volvaggia (sp?) and the rest, they're more intelligent and have more skill and combat tools than anyone Link has faced, save Ganondorf (and he doesn't really use much of the impressive power people attribute to him in their battles).
Not necessarily, as Link has faced skilled humanoid enemies before, but they usually wield swords and such. Darknuts, Stalfos, and Lizalfos tend to be skilled with weapons, while Zant loves to shoot blasts of magic absolutely everywhere. Similarly, Ganondorf uses magic blasts and Area of Effect attacks, opens portals, and has made a barrier to prevent interference.
Many of these MK guys are faster and more mobile than even Link in combat.
Link's no stranger to fast moving enemies or teleporters, and he's pretty fast himself. How fast are MK fighters, because from I've seen they don't appear that fast.
Originally posted by AllanklesI couldn't help but notice you ignored my post, and went on to repeat yourself about things we've already discussed.
Quan does make a fair point here about how to assess these guys. I don't think Ganondorf would have the juice to stand up to team up of Quan-Chi, Shang Tsung and Shao Khan on his own.And while Link does have impressive victories, look at his rogues gallery. Plenty of those monsters can hurt him and non are as skilled or even as dangerous (because a lot of them lack the intelligence) as the MK elite warriors.
Most of his rogues gallery consists of lower scale monsters, that's who threatens him and that's who he fights. The MK fighters are threatened by each other, certainly a more dangerous arena.
That would be equivalent to Link fighting people on the level of Dark Link or Ganondorf constantly, tournament after tournament. I guarantee you under those circumstances you won't see any strength feats, just death and carnage.
Many of these MK fighters are magically and mystically gifted in ways that Link isn't. Even brutes like Baraka have mystical offensive powers.
So while these humanoids in MK don't immediately look as impressive as Dangoro, Volvaggia (sp?) and the rest, they're more intelligent and have more skill and combat tools than anyone Link has faced, save Ganondorf (and he doesn't really use much of the impressive power people attribute to him in their battles).
Many of these MK guys are faster and more mobile than even Link in combat.
Ganondorf could handle this trio easily because they cannot hurt him. At all. Meanwhile, he can reduce them to paste with a punch.
Please name some of the monsters that have demonstrated the ability to hurt him? And among them, which are weaker than MK fighters? I can't think of any. You're attempting to use gameplay mechanics, by this logic, Stryker or Reptile can kill Shao Khan because it happens in gameplay.
Dark Link and Ganondorf are much, much more dangerous than the MK fighters according to the feats I've seen.
Low level mystical powers. Consider that Link is always carrying the master sword, a weapon that operates on a higher scale than any of the MK fighters, which can reflect their magic, protect Link from them, and kill them so hard. He's physically stronger than any of them, and I see no indication any are more skilled than he is. Link could probably kill 90% of them with his bow before he'd even need to draw his sword. He can peg an inch thick pole with his bow at around a half mile's distance.
You ignore that even were they particularly dangerous compared to things like Morpheel, or Fyrus, Link beat Ganondorf. A character who dwarfs the entire MK cast in power. Need I remind you he can literally turn them into fish? None of them have any defense againse his TK, or his ability to simply punch them. Chunky Salsa Rule in play. 😐
Feats, plx. More mobile, sure, since many can teleport, faster? You'll need feats. Not that it matters, since Ganondorf can kill everyone in MK on his own.
Originally posted by The ScenarioOk, this always happens when we debate this topic. Let's keep the responses not as drawn out. I hate devoting 30 minutes just to respond when we've had these same arguments countless times or so it feels.
Just because Legend of Zelda isn't a gorefest, it doesn't mean Link is weak. By you're argument, Link can make monsters explode with a sword. In any case I've shown he cuts right through armor with ease, which is a great indicator of strength.I think you're over estimating the effect that Link's gear has. Look, let's try something.
0:54, Dangoro rolls at Link, but is unable to move him due to the Iron Boots. Do you agree?
0:56, Dangoro has stopped, so the Iron Boots aren't needed anymore. Link then lifts and throws him. Do you agree?
My point here is that for 0:54, Link does need the Iron Boots, and they help him [b]stop
Dangoro. For 0:56, however, Dangoro is no longer rolling towards Link, and he does not need the boots in order to lift him. You are correct in that Link needs the boots in order to halt Dangoro's momentum, but if you try to claim that Link needs the boots to lift Dangoro, you'd be wrong. Yes, I agree that the boots make the feat possible, by letting Link stop Dangoro. However, he does not need the boots for the lifting and throwing.No. Watch the cutscene again. He was perfectly fine with a sword through his chest, and if anything would injure him it would be the disintegration effect of the Mirror of Twilight. Hey, Quanchi, you just proved that Ganondorf survived being disintegrated completely. Congratulations. And before you forget, Ganondorf presence in the Twilight Realm corrupted it, and it made him stronger. Oops.
Ganondorf gave power to Zant. Zant, using Ganondorf's power, can create portals to cross dimensions. Ganondorf, using his own power, can create portals to cross dimensions. What's so hard to understand about this?
Quote where I said the Mirror of Twilight is unfair. I never said
anything of the sort, and if you remember, Ganondorf's power broke the Mirror of Twilight, proving that he is stronger than it. What you are doing, however, is trying to use something has been proven to not work anymore, and using Ganondorf at his weakest, ignoring the fact that he is stronger now. Do you understand that Ganondorf grows in power, too?Prove it was a hundred years, and prove he was unconscious for the entire time. Ganondorf, after being banished to the Twilight Realm, corrupted it and got stronger from feeding on the hate. The Sages regard banishing him as a terrible mistake. Still, I'd advise you to stop lowballing Past Ganondorf and ignoring the fact he is stronger than he was when stuff like that actually fazed him.
What? Again, Past Ganondorf < Present Ganondorf, and as you continued to ignore, Ganondorf received the Triforce of Power not five seconds before. He was inexperienced, weaker than normal, and came back from the dead once already. You are lowballing horrendously, try using the Present Ganondorf, 'k?
Please prove that. Did you forget that the BFR made him stronger? And that it no longer works since Ganondorf can make portals? I never said that only Master Sword was required to defeat Ganondorf, I said that it could kill him, and that something with similar properties could do the same. Evil's Bane, capable of canceling powers, etc. is what you need.
No, I said the opposite. You may not need holy to necessarily kill him, but as evidenced you need it to make him stay dead. You need Evil's Bane or canceling the Triforce to make not come back to life. Yes, he could be killed with enough power, but he will come back in a few seconds if you don't have the stuff to make him stay down.
I did no such thing. I proved that Ganondorf survived a sword through the chest and disintegration, and came back from a BFR, gaining the ability make portals in the process. Maybe they can beat him, maybe they can't, but keeping him dead is a bigger problem.
Don't see why it wouldn't, since it's an explicit ability. Unless you have some ability that makes Ganondorf stay dead or can get past his castle exploding durability, he's not going down permanently.
That could work, to make him stay, for example. However, Ganondorf does have power over the dead, and can come back from the dead as he has shown. He can create undead and revive people, that's enough.
What can they do? I've seen Sub-Zero, and Midna would stomp him into the ground. Midna can shapeshift, go intangible, teleport herself and others, and has massively powerful TK. Not to mention her Fused Shadow monster form. She's more powerful than Zant.
Temporary? That would last until the sword had been destroyed, as you remember Stallord kept going after his spine and body were destroyed. He and Ganondorf have also created skeletal warriors, not mention zombies and ghosts. He can transform people into Shadow Beasts or into imps and take away their powers. [/B]
My argument is Link can cut through armor just like anyone with above human strength with precise/skillful thrusts. You are overexaggerating it once again. If he was so much stronger he'd simply overpower the knight or he'd be at a loss to take him head on but he's not it all comes down to skill level.
I agree he needs them to match up with him but has the strength to lift him. Without the boots he can't match up with Dangoro though which is the point.
He wasn't completely disintegrated his molecules were bfr'd. There's a huge difference but if it benefited a zelda character I'd imagine you'd throw theories around for the sky being red. Dorf has the power of the triforce so of course he is going to make this tiny world more powerful based off of the triforce. Him needing a few hundred years and Zant to get back shows a need for someone else to help him achieve his objectives.
I understood it as Dorf piggybacked through Zant to come back to Hyrule and while there could go in and out of the room through teleportation. He never teleported across dimensions or to other worlds on his own without Zant.
Dorf was beaten by Link at his most powerful so color me unimpressed. He also needs outside emotions to be at his best thus showing a real dependence not only on Zant but other people to increase his powers. The mirror wasn't completely destroyed and who cares i fit was it did the job of successfully bfring Dorf.
If he awoke it means he was unconcious. If you won't honor the videos you yourself put up don't put them up. I don't replay the game just to debate with you but since you put it up it stated it clearly. Awoke means you were unconscious prior to awaking.
This still doesn't change the fact his power is dependent on the emotions of others and despite being at an all time power high Link still beat him anyways. Dorf being inexperienced still doesn't excuse him losing to seven sages despite bing far more powerful than they were.
Dorf can create portals in a room reappearing in that said room. Even if I were for the sake of argument going to say he can do so on his own it's only due to his familiarity between these two worlds and wouldn't 'apply to a foreign land like outworld or the nether realm.
You don't need to kill Dorf to beat him as proven by the mirror of twilight. Also you just need to be more powerful than Dorf as well to kill him. Him resisting death once doesn't mean he can resist having his head ripped off and mounted on a spike.
Dorf came back a hundred years later or so. This wouldn't help him against the mkers and in the nether realm he'd be outmanned and overwhelmed by the residents of said realm. Him resisting a sword through his chest doesn't mean he can survive decapitation or his limbs hacked from his body.
The same can be said for Raiden then. If you want to play the plot device game Raiden can keep coming back himself, can teleport, unlike Dorf is an actual god, etc. Plus unlike Raiden they can bfr Dorf to a foreign dimension.
Dorf may have some power over the dead but so does Quan Chi as well. Dorf also unlike Quan Chi relies on the emotions of others to be at his best. Quan Chi has already made an unkillable spectre in Scorpion. He can't die either and anyone in mk who dies goes to the netherealm. For the sake of the argument I don't want to be unfair and make you have to kill them twice. I do have a heart.
Many characters in mk can teleport, Shang Tsung can shapeshift as well. Midna feels pain when attacked and does have powerful tk but so does Ermac who is an mk character and has tk exploded Jax's arms off before. It isn't just Sub either Sektor has the ability to shoot heat seeking missiles, is a highly skilled ninja cybernetic ninja along with Cyrax on top of other cybernetic ninjas. Sub can freeze her as well and there's no way she has shown the speed or skill to take on as many enemies at once. There's also dragons in mk along with giant monsters.
Yes, they have created nameless, weak enemies but Quan Chi has created an undead specter who can keep coming back along with Noob Saibot. These are highly trained skilled killers that won't show a bit of mercy.