Mortal Kombat 9 vs. Twilight Princess

Started by quanchi11227 pages

Originally posted by The Scenario
So all Hylians can toss Gorons and giant ice masses? No, you're just overestimating the effects of Link's gear again, since Link's feats are clearly superhuman. You have no idea how armor works, do you? It's supposed to protect from sword, not get sliced off the second a sword hits it. Link cutting through armor is yet another example of his superhuman abilities.

Ah, so you''re trying to deny all of Link's feats with PIS. Destiny said he'd win, so none of Link's feats are valid? That seems desperate to me, seeing as Link wins through his skill, strength, and courage, with a bit of help from the Master Sword.

Do MK fighters have superhuman durability or something? A sword will kill a human, so unless you can prove MK fighters can resist sword strikes they're going down like a human.

That is such a ridiculous double standard. Link winning on his first isn't canon but not killing monsters in one hit somehow is? That's called game mechanic to preserve the challenge. Anyway, Bo is superhuman because he can wrestle Gorons, pretty simple. As was said before, Link doesn't need boots to lift, just to stop them.

The hit is also going to travel in the direction the horse is moving, not sideways. This is common physics. No, you not understanding that all the force from the Ball and Chain comes from Link throwing it. He's still applying the force needed, so it's still his strength throwing Blizzeta. To deny this is to deny how physics works.

No, it does make sense that being heavier will stop someone from moving you. Link needs the Iron Boots to stop Gorons as I've said, but see again the "stop vs. lift" thing I went over earlier. Link doesn't need the boots to lift Gorons. So he is still clearly superhuman.

'k, he looks a little slower than Zant, and teleports a little. Not quite as good as Zant, it looks like. Link shouldn't have too many problems with him.

I think not all but others can as well. I say this by seeing Link's combat strength in relation to his peers. Bo stated Link can best a goron with the boots which implies they are a necessary part in doing so. I have already said my piece on this countless times so let's move on because at this point it's just us repeating ourselves over and over again.

No, his feats are indeed valid but against the mk verse he isn't fated to win unlike in zelda.

In previous mk games characters have wielded weapons as does Quan Chi wield two swords. They can survive being struck by these in gameplay and in video it depends on where the strikes hit just like in real life. Scorpion also wields twin blades as does Sub with one blade in this game as well. In past games everyone had a weapon but now they all don't wield weapons like in the past.

Not a double standard but more or less like you trying to offer Link shooting an arrow and hitting a target hundreds of yards in the distance. Link will beat Bo but he doesn't have to beat him right away but eventually he does have to beat him. I already said I'd probably give Link a slight edge in strength due to his age.

Again if someone is on a horse they have more force at their disposal. In all of these scenarios Link is on a horse or using a weighted item. Link is strong enough to wield it barely but both of these feats I have already explained.

Link is stronger than any human just like any mk fighter. Glad we agree. Any of these guys can hurt each other with the weapons or powers they have. Glad we agree.

His speed looks a lot faster than Zant. Zant doesn't seem to move with anywhere near the speed and combined skill of Scorpion. That's just one fighter too and Link along with about 9 others is all you really have outside the armies both sides have. All mk fighters are skilled killers unlike in the zelda verse.

@Scenario

Yes, Raiden himself caused a castle to explode and later reformed under his own power.

This is a canon fight as well so you can see how these guys handle themselves in a fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvVtoVSzkJw

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I couldn't help but notice you ignored my post, and went on to repeat yourself about things we've already discussed.

Ganondorf could handle this trio [b]easily because they cannot hurt him. At all. Meanwhile, he can reduce them to paste with a punch.

Please name some of the monsters that have demonstrated the ability to hurt him? And among them, which are weaker than MK fighters? I can't think of any. You're attempting to use gameplay mechanics, by this logic, Stryker or Reptile can kill Shao Khan because it happens in gameplay. [/B]

Dude I'm kind of busy, so if I don't post, it's because I don't have the free time to do so. Or because I'm tired and would rather catch up on a tv show or play some light video game or something.

If Shao Khan was impaired by magic or fighting below his normal level, of courseStryker or Reptile could kill him. Both are not mere mortals. If Shao Khan didn't fight back or even defend himself they could kill him. The point is, everyone that graduates to the MK tournament is a highly skillful and dangerous warrior. Stryker doesn't have a fancy background, but much like Johnny Cage, he is highly skilled and deadly in his own right.

And of course Reptile is superhuman.

So my point is all those monsters had the capacity to kill Link. And no one is saying they're weaker than MK fighters. The truth is most of them are too dumb to bother an elite MK for more than a few minutes, since thinks like necromancy, pyromancy and cryomancy would make short work of most of those monsters.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Dark Link and Ganondorf are much, much more dangerous than the MK fighters according to the feats I've seen.

Neither are as skillful as the top MK guys, you also forget plenty of MK guys have mystical and magical powers, the kind of which Dark Link doesn't have. And Ganondorf while more than good enough to compete in an MK tournament, the powers he's displayed in combat wouldn't put him above Shinnok, Raiden, Quan-Chi or Shang Tsung.

Again what combat displays make you think Ganondorf would overwhelm such sorcerers/magicians/demigods? You keep talking about twilight, polymoprhing and some kind of castle explosion. But even if we take the most impressive thing there (castle exploding) how does it put him above the aforementioned guys? Who have stood up to people who can do that and more? I hope this isn't the OOT feat again, since that was stock end game sequence, and caused by his link to the castle.

Polymorphing wouldn't work on beings that have mastered morphing magic.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Low level mystical powers. Consider that Link is always carrying the master sword, a weapon that operates on a higher scale than any of the MK fighters, which can reflect their magic, protect Link from them, and [b]kill them so hard. He's physically stronger than any of them, and I see no indication any are more skilled than he is. Link could probably kill 90% of them with his bow before he'd even need to draw his sword. He can peg an inch thick pole with his bow at around a half mile's distance. [/B]

Who denies that Master Sword can deflect magic? MK character would use those mystical powers to destroy a lot of the monster Link faces. A guy like Sub Zero or Ermac would be a nightmare for many monsters.

He pushes big cages and blocks, he doesn't lift them. Most of the stuff he does wouldn't be beyond the MK guys truth be told. The only things that give me pause about his strength in relation to most of the MK cast are stuff like lifting Dangoro which I don't see anyone but Shao Khan or Goro type guys replicating.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You ignore that even were they particularly dangerous compared to things like Morpheel, or Fyrus, Link [b]beat Ganondorf. A character who dwarfs the entire MK cast in power. Need I remind you he can literally turn them into fish? None of them have any defense againse his TK, or his ability to simply punch them. Chunky Salsa Rule in play. 😐[/B]

And MK guys can soul steal a planet, which dwarfs turning a few regular mortals into fish.

And of course Morpheel and Fyrus are powerful but they have easily exploitable weakness. A Sub Zero could break their bodies whole sale. And guys like Ermac have actual combat effective pure TK which works better than a hook shot with extracting the monsters vulnerable parts.

You don't seem to rate the mystical and magical talents that many MK characters possess. Which would allow them to make minced meat of a lot of creatures and without the complications Link endures to defeat them.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Feats, plx. More mobile, sure, since many can teleport, faster? You'll need feats. Not that it matters, since Ganondorf can kill everyone in MK on his own.

You'll need better feats than the ones you keep repeating to convince anyone that Ganondorf can survive MK let alone defeat the entire Outworld empire. These a guys with enough juice to merge entire planets and realms together. They grow more powerful with each soul the consume, they can through magic ritual consume the souls of an entire planet. Again you've yet to show anything conclusive with Dorf. Who's scope and ability are far less than what it takes to rule planets like Outworld or take merge Earth realm or Edenia.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Link's no stranger to fast moving enemies or teleporters, and he's pretty fast himself. How fast are MK fighters, because from I've seen they don't appear that fast.

Yeah their teleporting makes them fast and guys like Liu Kang have tremendous hand and foot speed. They also have mobility, many of them can hover or glide or shoot flying kicks from long jump distances. Some of course can outright fly.

Originally posted by quanchi112
@Scenario

Yes, Raiden himself caused a castle to explode and later reformed under his own power.

This is a canon fight as well so you can see how these guys handle themselves in a fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvVtoVSzkJw

Onaga kind ofhas a similiar feat to Ganon, difference being is that I assume thats Onaga's combat form and we see everything happen, with little room if any for speculation.

on base value i would say the building Raiden destroyed was bigger as well by a fair margin but its not clear for sure.

And to add to that the only reason Onaga was unfased by Quan Chi's, Shang Tsung's and Raiden's magic is because he had the Kamidogu (sp?) from Shujinko.

It was linked to all the realms, making him immune to magic. After an amped Shujinko stripped him of the amulet he was able to pummel Onaga to physical death.

I don't like what's still being said in here. I don't think anybody has denied that MK characters are superhuman. Each one has an ability to jump to a height that's probably good enough to qualify as superhuman. And most have more than that, like the capability to shoost lightning or whatnot.

Ganon has plenty of power to rule a planet. And he can merge dimensions just as well as anyone in MK. I know this because he's done it.

To say a Sub Zero could just break through Fyrus or Morpheel's bodies will take a damage feat.

I didn't even cover all that I could. You're just being biased, bro. You gotta stop that. 😬

Originally posted by Allankles
And to add to that the only reason Onaga was unfased by Quan Chi's, Shang Tsung's and Raiden's magic is because he had the Kamidogu (sp?) from Shujinko.

It was linked to all the realms, making him immune to magic. After an amped Shujinko stripped him of the amulet he was able to pummel Onaga to physical death.

Ah so theres context reasons. Wouldnt he have this object (or access to it) in this vs?

But still, Raiden can blow up buildings, arguably larger than the castle Ganon may have been inside when it blew.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I don't like what's still being said in here. I don't think anybody has denied that MK characters are superhuman. Each one has an ability to jump to a height that's probably good enough to qualify as superhuman. And most have more than that, like the capability to shoost lightning or whatnot.

Ganon has plenty of power to rule a planet. And he can merge dimensions just as well as anyone in MK. I know this because he's done it.

To say a Sub Zero could just break through Fyrus or Morpheel's bodies will take a damage feat.

I didn't even cover all that I could. You're just being biased, bro. You gotta stop that. 😬

Cryomancy is a potent ability. Shutting down those monsters molcules won't be difficult. Unlike simply cryokinesis it is actually a magic based ability. It instantly flash freezes whatever it comes into contact with. So yeah, he'd be an absolute nightmare for those guys.

And I actually like LoZ, I was addicted to OOT for a couple years in the late 90's. And loved TWW. TP not so much, as some of the Zelda series staples started to seem outdated to me. But overall I'm a fan of the Zelda universe.

I just don't think the Zelda universe is equipped for the kind of threat an empire like Outworld presents. Every major crisis has been thwarted by the actions of a single competent warrior. There are no organized armies in Zelda for Link or Ganondorf to face. No great tradition of superhumans and sorcerers.

It's a barren universe when it comes to super humans imo. Twinrova, Zelda, Dorf, the Sages (barely) and... No notable armies. If Link had to save Hyrule from Outworld how would he do it? Unlike Earth realm he doesn't even have a competent military of any kind of note to back him up. And unlike Dorf and his monsters, beating Outworld would take more than finding devices and purifying temples of monsters with easily exploitable vulnerabilities.

Your opinion is not based on fact sir. Ignoring the facts is the only possible way you can say the Zelda universe could not handle MK.

And don't tell me there are no organized armies. ALttP had them, Ganon had them in OoT, Wind Waker, and Zant commanded one in TP. That's just how good Link is. A fact you overlook.

Link doesn't fight armies, so I don't see what I overlooked. And Ganon commands hexes and monsters, not armies.

Clearing temples of mostly non sentient monsters is not equivalent to actually fighting armies, let alone an army of planet conquerors.

If he hasn't even faced kingdom spanning empires, how is he supposed to fight one that has taken over planets?

And LoZ doesn't have the means to take on something like MK. I'd match them against the Dragon Age kingdoms or something before I'd match Hyrule with MK.

The only hope they have is that if Zelda and Link entrust their triforce pieces to Dorf. Otherwise that kingdom will get overrun in a matter of minutes. Teleportation ftw.

You're arguing as if Link is the only character around that has defeated enemy after enemy. In games like Dragon Age, Elder Scrolls etc you have heroes who fight giant monsters without the benefit of exploitations alot of the time, just shear magical prowess and weapon proficiency.

But even there they're not really fighting an army. Pockets of enemies here and there doesn't equate to fighting an army.

Sometimes the only reason those monsters are even vulnerable to Link is because they have an obvious exploitable weakness somewhere and Link has the device to exploit that weakness.

Since Link doesn't have the wealth of offensive magic etc of some other heroes, these weakness are often absolutely essential to his success. Without them, it doesn't appear he has the firepower to hurt those monsters.

Originally posted by Allankles
Link doesn't fight armies, so I don't see what I overlooked. And Ganon commands hexes and monsters, not armies.

Yes, he does. It's either Ganon's army, Hyrule's army, or some other massive collection of monsters.

Originally posted by Allankles
Clearing temples of mostly non sentient monsters is not equivalent to actually fighting armies, let alone an army of planet conquerors.

Not being sentient does not make them less dangerous. A lion is not sentient, and it is a better fighter than you.

Originally posted by Allankles
If he hasn't even faced kingdom spanning empires, how is he supposed to fight one that has taken over planets?

But he has

Originally posted by Allankles
And LoZ doesn't have the means to take on something like MK. I'd match them against the Dragon Age kingdoms or something before I'd match Hyrule with MK.

I don't care what you'd do. But Zelda has the means to match MK, and best them. See the feats and information previously provided in this thread. Those facts that I said you're ignoring. You know the ones.

Originally posted by Allankles
The only hope they have is that if Zelda and Link entrust their triforce pieces to Dorf. Otherwise that kingdom will get overrun in a matter of minutes. Teleportation ftw.

Teleportation is something Link has faced before, bro. Numerous times. It's also something he himself can do in many games.

Seriously. Stop ignoring things.

Originally posted by Allankles
You're arguing as if Link is the only character around that has defeated enemy after enemy. In games like Dragon Age, Elder Scrolls etc you have heroes who fight giant monsters without the benefit of exploitations alot of the time, just shear magical prowess and weapon proficiency.

Actually, the army crap is totally your point. I'm just arguing it for Link to, at least, stalemate you by proving that everything MK can do, Zelda can do.

You meant "sheer" by the way. Shear involves sheep.

Originally posted by Allankles
But even there they're not really fighting an army. Pockets of enemies here and there doesn't equate to fighting an army.

So you want him to fight the entire army at the same time? Does this mean Dynasty Warriors > Mortal Kombat? 'cause that's what it looks like you're saying.

Originally posted by Allankles
Sometimes the only reason those monsters are even vulnerable to Link is because they have an obvious exploitable weakness somewhere and Link has the device to exploit that weakness.

Which speaks only for their strengths, not their weakness, as you would like me to believe.

Originally posted by Allankles
Since Link doesn't have the wealth of offensive magic etc of some other heroes, these weakness are often absolutely essential to his success. Without them, it doesn't appear he has the firepower to hurt those monsters.

I think you're stepping dangerously close to the other side of the gameplay/canon boundary here. There's bound to be more than one way to slay these monsters, because there's more than one way to die for anything that dies.

The weaknesses are also commonly tied into circumstances like the location of the battle. Hell, loads of times the weaknesses you say are essential have to be created, which is something Link does on his own. It's not always obvious.

Cryomancy is a potent ability. Shutting down those monsters molcules won't be difficult. Unlike simply cryokinesis it is actually a magic based ability. It instantly flash freezes whatever it comes into contact with. So yeah, he'd be an absolute nightmare for those guys.
Which is why it fails to kill multiple characters in cutscenes? 😐

Since Link doesn't have the wealth of offensive magic etc of some other heroes, these weakness are often absolutely essential to his success. Without them, it doesn't appear he has the firepower to hurt those monsters.
You're sorta ignoring feats here, using Link's pragmatic way of fighting as if it somehow overrides that he and Ganon have far superior feats to the MK cast.

Raiden managed to blow up a castle, sure, he also killed the hell out of himself in the process and it took too long to be a combat viable feat. We also know castle busting damage is not enough to hurt Ganondorf.

Ganon has stronger TK than any of the MK cast has shown, Zant can handle multiple powerful opponents with a fraction of his power. Ermac can rip off arms. Midna can levitate and teleport massive stone structures. Ganon's TK > Midna's > Ermac's.

Subzero can encase you in ice. Ganon can encase the entire Zora city in ice. Ganon's cryomancy >

Shang Tsung can feed on souls and the like. Ganon can cover an entire country in twilight and reduce everyone to helpless souls. Ganon's soul rape >

A lot of MKers can teleport, and shit... Ganondorf can become completely intangible.

Some MKers have displayed superhuman strength of around 5-10 tons? Ganondorf has displayed strength above what it takes to toss a pillar weighing hundreds of tons. He overpowered OoT Link.
Ganon's strength > MK's

Ganon's durability > MK's strength, too.

They can't hurt him.

The only people in MK who have ever been soul-raped have either been utterly defenseless humans, or already dead. That's not an argument against the Zelda characters who have protection.

Ganon can legitimately solo this fight. 😐

Originally posted by quanchi112
My argument is Link can cut through armor just like anyone with above human strength with precise/skillful thrusts. You are overexaggerating it once again. If he was so much stronger he'd simply overpower the knight or he'd be at a loss to take him head on but he's not it all comes down to skill level.

Precise, skillful thrusts do not cause metal armor to fly off. At best, the skill required would be to get past the armor, going between the metal bits to strike at more vulnerable inner sections. Contrary to what you seem to be saying, most knights die with their armor on, while whatever killed them either pierced it or hit a gap. That is not what happens with Darknuts. With Darknuts, Link demonstrably cuts through the armor, knocking pieces of it off. He is not maneuvering his sword into holes in the armor, he is cutting right through it.


I agree he needs them to match up with him but has the strength to lift him. Without the boots he can't match up with Dangoro though which is the point.

No, that is not the point. This is strength feat, not a "match up" feat. All I'm proving is that Link has massive amounts of strength via the lifting of Dangoro. We're arguing different things here, you're saying Link needs the boots to fight, while I'm saying he doesn't need them to lift. By proving Link can lift, I'm establishing that Link has superhuman strength, and that has nothing to with how he fight Dangoro. Forget the fight, Dangoro is effectively a weight, and Link lifting and throwing that weight puts Link at levels of strength above MK.


He wasn't completely disintegrated his molecules were bfr'd. There's a huge difference but if it benefited a zelda character I'd imagine you'd throw theories around for the sky being red. Dorf has the power of the triforce so of course he is going to make this tiny world more powerful based off of the triforce. Him needing a few hundred years and Zant to get back shows a need for someone else to help him achieve his objectives.

You saw it, Ganondorf was separated into tiny particles before being BFR'd. He was BFR'd, yes, but he was clearly disintegrated beforehand. And he survived, good job. But, you are forgetting that Ganondorf was not at full power to begin with, so why are you treating him as if he was? He just came back to life, and had only gotten the power seconds before, so he didn't even know how to use it. Plus, you still haven't proved it was a hundreds years.


I understood it as Dorf piggybacked through Zant to come back to Hyrule and while there could go in and out of the room through teleportation. He never teleported across dimensions or to other worlds on his own without Zant.

In and out of the room? Out of the room to where? Ganon is not just crossing the room, he actually disappears for upwards of 15 seconds at a time, having gone somewhere else through a twilight portal. He uses the same portals anyone who crosses dimensions uses, and has crossed dimension in several other games. Heck, remember Ocarina of Time (Forest Temple) he opens portals to the gap between dimensions. A Link to the Past features Ganon moving through the Dark World. The guy has escaped every sealing and BFR he's ever been put through, including in Twilight Princess, where he uses Twilight power for it rather his usual styles.


Dorf was beaten by Link at his most powerful so color me unimpressed. He also needs outside emotions to be at his best thus showing a real dependence not only on Zant but other people to increase his powers. The mirror wasn't completely destroyed and who cares i fit was it did the job of successfully bfring Dorf.

Why is Link beating Ganondorf unimpressive when there was the Master Sword? Where is it said he needs outside emotions, since I've shown you Ganondorf just used it to get strong. He's not even dependant on Zant since, in case you forget, Zant died and Ganondorf was fine. Why is the Mirror being shattered not important? It no longer works on Ganondorf, and that proved it.


If he awoke it means he was unconcious. If you won't honor the videos you yourself put up don't put them up. I don't replay the game just to debate with you but since you put it up it stated it clearly. Awoke means you were unconscious prior to awaking.

Why is being unconscious from a disintegration not impressive? Heck, it means he survived being separated into particles after coming back to life from an impalement. The Mirror is a powerful artifact, if you remember, capable of transforming and corrupting the minds of other creatures, and that was just the fragments, while Ganondorf's banishing tore him to pieces and left him in a spiritual form. Sounds impressive to me.


This still doesn't change the fact his power is dependent on the emotions of others and despite being at an all time power high Link still beat him anyways. Dorf being inexperienced still doesn't excuse him losing to seven sages despite bing far more powerful than they were.

That's is a major stretch that's not even slightly indicated. "Used hate to regain his strength" somehow became "completely dependent on others" to you? He still has the Triforce of Power, which allowed him too revive after death and survive a disintegration in spirit form, then recovered his strength, so you're just grasping at straws here. The Sages did nt even fight Ganondorf, they just activate a massively powerful artifact to disintegrate him and send him away. In actual combat, the Sages were slaughtered.


Dorf can create portals in a room reappearing in that said room. Even if I were for the sake of argument going to say he can do so on his own it's only due to his familiarity between these two worlds and wouldn't 'apply to a foreign land like outworld or the nether realm.

He has crossed other dimensions, too, you know, not just the Twilight Realm. It's one of his most common powers, and how he escaped every sealing or banishment placed on him. One of the rather integral parts of his character is that it never works. And then, what's preventing, say, the Sages from BFRing Quan Chi or someone?


You don't need to kill Dorf to beat him as proven by the mirror of twilight. Also you just need to be more powerful than Dorf as well to kill him. Him resisting death once doesn't mean he can resist having his head ripped off and mounted on a spike.

That never works, as proven by every Zelda game ever. Also, yes it does, Ganondorf came back to life from both an impaling and having his entire body destroyed twice. He just makes a new one. Again, keeping him dead is the problem here.


Dorf came back a hundred years later or so. This wouldn't help him against the mkers and in the nether realm he'd be outmanned and overwhelmed by the residents of said realm. Him resisting a sword through his chest doesn't mean he can survive decapitation or his limbs hacked from his body.

Where is it stated that it was a hundred years? I recall seeing it nowhere in the game at any point. In any case, he did not just resist a sword through the chest, though he came back to life from that. He resisted a castle exploding on him and having his entire body destroyed twice, so a decapitation would be nothing to him.


The same can be said for Raiden then. If you want to play the plot device game Raiden can keep coming back himself, can teleport, unlike Dorf is an actual god, etc. Plus unlike Raiden they can bfr Dorf to a foreign dimension.

Ganondorf is proven to come back multiple times, and can teleport and cross dimensions as well. He just drops twilight all over Raiden and watches his helpless soul wander around. By the way, "god" means nothing, since it's just a title with no feats. Ganondorf actually survived a castle busting, and the same killed Raiden, so Ganondorf is clearly more powerful, too.


Dorf may have some power over the dead but so does Quan Chi as well. Dorf also unlike Quan Chi relies on the emotions of others to be at his best. Quan Chi has already made an unkillable spectre in Scorpion. He can't die either and anyone in mk who dies goes to the netherealm. For the sake of the argument I don't want to be unfair and make you have to kill them twice. I do have a heart.

There you go again with "relies on emotions" stuff. No. Ganondorf has been proven to have revived from impalement and bodily destruction through the Triforce of Power alone, he just used emotions to recover from one disintegration before he could fully use the Triforce of Power. Ganondorf can revive Zant an unlimited number of times and is unkillable himself as long as he has the Triforce of Power, so he'll keep coming back anyway. He can kill Quan Chi as many times as he likes.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Many characters in mk can teleport, Shang Tsung can shapeshift as well. Midna feels pain when attacked and does have powerful tk but so does Ermac who is an mk character and has tk exploded Jax's arms off before. It isn't just Sub either Sektor has the ability to shoot heat seeking missiles, is a highly skilled ninja cybernetic ninja along with Cyrax on top of other cybernetic ninjas. Sub can freeze her as well and there's no way she has shown the speed or skill to take on as many enemies at once. There's also dragons in mk along with giant monsters.

Ganondorf, Zant , and Midna can all teleport and create portals. Midna and Ganondorf can become intangible and Midna's TK can lift a huge section of a bridge so it's clearly much more powerful than Ermac's (and Zant/Ganondof have overpower Midna's TK.) Midna can teleport multiple people against their will, too. She'll just TK crush anyone that tries something and transform into her Fused Shadow form if needed for giants.


Yes, they have created nameless, weak enemies but Quan Chi has created an undead specter who can keep coming back along with Noob Saibot. These are highly trained skilled killers that won't show a bit of mercy.

Stallord is neither weak nor nameless, and Ganondorf effectively created Zant, who can merge two dimensions at will or just transform them and take their powers away. They've also made the Shadow Beast, which turn anyone they kill into another Shadow Beast and Zant can transform people into Shadow Beasts as well. They're all killers, too, if you hadn't noticed.


I think not all but others can as well. I say this by seeing Link's combat strength in relation to his peers. Bo stated Link can best a goron with the boots which implies they are a necessary part in doing so. I have already said my piece on this countless times so let's move on because at this point it's just us repeating ourselves over and over again.

That's still not what I'm saying, however. Best and Lift are not the same thing, I'm just proving that Link is strong enough to lift the Gorons' weight, and that makes him stronger than MK characters I've seen.


No, his feats are indeed valid but against the mk verse he isn't fated to win unlike in zelda.

So it means nothing, got it.


In previous mk games characters have wielded weapons as does Quan Chi wield two swords. They can survive being struck by these in gameplay and in video it depends on where the strikes hit just like in real life. Scorpion also wields twin blades as does Sub with one blade in this game as well. In past games everyone had a weapon but now they all don't wield weapons like in the past.

Link survives swords in gameplay and takes an axe to the face/sky cannon without damage, too, so not sure what you're getting at. Link is strong enough to cut people in half, so depending on where it hits he can kill them.


Not a double standard but more or less like you trying to offer Link shooting an arrow and hitting a target hundreds of yards in the distance. Link will beat Bo but he doesn't have to beat him right away but eventually he does have to beat him. I already said I'd probably give Link a slight edge in strength due to his age.

Then you can't say. There's no evidence either way, but it is implied Link won pretty easily, since Bo comments on how strong has become in such a short time. Similarly, the Goron Elder fight is implied to be just one bout since he says mostly the same thing as if Link wasn't wearing the boots.


Again if someone is on a horse they have more force at their disposal. In all of these scenarios Link is on a horse or using a weighted item. Link is strong enough to wield it barely but both of these feats I have already explained.

The horse is moving this way --->

Link hits King Bulblin and he flies this way ^

What you're saying is Link's sidewise force was increased despite the fact that he was moving forward, when this simply isn't true.


Link is stronger than any human just like any mk fighter. Glad we agree. Any of these guys can hurt each other with the weapons or powers they have. Glad we agree.

Except that Link is also demonstrably stronger than MK characters as well. Pretty sure we don't agree there. Sure MK can hurt Link, though.


His speed looks a lot faster than Zant. Zant doesn't seem to move with anywhere near the speed and combined skill of Scorpion. That's just one fighter too and Link along with about 9 others is all you really have outside the armies both sides have. All mk fighters are skilled killers unlike in the zelda verse.

I've seen no one in MK move this fast, so pretty sure Zant outspeeds them. Zelda characters are also skilled killers, though, and I'm not sure why you would say they aren't.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Yes, he does. It's either Ganon's army, Hyrule's army, or some other massive collection of monsters.

Ganon doesn't have an army. Hexed temples and unsealed monsters in temples and other places does not an army make.

And Link hasn't fought Hyrule's army, not that it would be relevant here against what MK have for an army.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Not being sentient does not make them less dangerous. A lion is not sentient, and it is a better fighter than you.

Didn't say they weren't dangerous but they're not smart. And unlike me, MK characters have magic, mysticism and super human stats.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
But he has

No he hasn't. That's like saying the the Elder Scrolls heroes have fought armies. They have fought more enemies per game than Link but they haven't fought armies. Again clearing dungeons of monsters that are not anything like an organized force isn't like facing an army.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I don't care what you'd do. But Zelda has the means to match MK, and best them. See the feats and information previously provided in this thread. Those facts that I said you're ignoring. You know the ones.

I've read those feats. And outside of using the full triforce they really don't.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Teleportation is something Link has faced before, bro. Numerous times. It's also something he himself can do in many games.

Seriously. Stop ignoring things.

What are you talking about? I'm talking about teleportation allowing Outworld's army to overrun Hyrule in a matter of minutes and you're talking about how Link has faced teleportation.

What's Link going to do when his Kingdom is easily overrun by a portion of Outworld's army. About half a million warriors landing on all the key military zones in Hyrule and the place is under Shao Khan's control in minutes. If Ganondorf puts up his resistance. The elite guys teleport to his location to face him down.

Logistically Hyrule has no chance. MK has too much man power and too many resources. They can take over planets, a single Kingdom like Hyrule would be overrun in moments.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Actually, the army crap is totally your point. I'm just arguing it for Link to, at least, stalemate you by proving that everything MK can do, Zelda can do.

Except take over a planet filled with WMDs, powerful warriors and millions of fighting men and

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
So you want him to fight the entire army at the same time? Does this mean Dynasty Warriors > Mortal Kombat? 'cause that's what it looks like you're saying.

Shao Khan is leading MK. Shao Khan commands man power measured in the billions. I don't see how Dynasty Warriors compares at all.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Which speaks only for their strengths, not their weakness, as you would like me to believe.

Strenghts against what. Bow's and arrows, a hookshot, a sword? These are the tools at Link's disposal. MK have those plus better ranged weapons, better technology, and mystical and margical arsenals. You really don't see how MK characters have more versatility?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I think you're stepping dangerously close to the other side of the gameplay/canon boundary here. There's bound to be more than one way to slay these monsters, because there's more than one way to die for anything that dies.

We've already been over this. Things like lifting Dangoro, ball and chain feats, pushing metal cages are all gameplay and counted as feats for Link. Why should the way he tackles those supposedly impressive monsters be exempted from the same assessment?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
The weaknesses are also commonly tied into circumstances like the location of the battle. Hell, loads of times the weaknesses you say are essential have to be created, which is something Link does on his own. It's not always obvious.

When I said obvious, I mean relatively. Someone might find them more obvious than another, obviously Link finds the loopholes. Point is Link needs those exploitations, he's not as versatile as many of the MK elites.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that MKers are more versatile overall, and would have more ways of defeating such monsters. Not to mention by demonstrated ability they are the more skillful combatants overall.

Originally posted by Allankles
Ganon doesn't have an army.
Only he does.

He has consistently shown the ability to create, and in TP he wields the Twili-Beasts through Zant, not to mention all those Moblins who for some reason in TP are not referred to as Moblins.

So he does have an army.

Shut up and lern2Zelda.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Which is why it fails to kill multiple characters in cutscenes? 😐

You're sorta ignoring feats here, using Link's pragmatic way of fighting as if it somehow overrides that he and Ganon have far superior feats to the MK cast.

Raiden managed to blow up a castle, sure, he also killed the hell out of himself in the process and it took too long to be a combat viable feat. We also know castle busting damage is not enough to hurt Ganondorf.

Ganon has stronger TK than any of the MK cast has shown, Zant can handle multiple powerful opponents with a fraction of his power. Ermac can rip off arms. Midna can levitate and teleport massive stone structures. Ganon's TK > Midna's > Ermac's.

Subzero can encase you in ice. Ganon can encase the entire Zora city in ice. Ganon's cryomancy >

Shang Tsung can feed on souls and the like. Ganon can cover an entire country in twilight and reduce everyone to helpless souls. Ganon's soul rape >

A lot of MKers can teleport, and shit... Ganondorf can become completely intangible.

Some MKers have displayed superhuman strength of around 5-10 tons? Ganondorf has displayed strength above what it takes to toss a pillar weighing hundreds of tons. He overpowered OoT Link.
Ganon's strength > MK's

Ganon's durability > MK's strength, too.

They can't hurt him.

The only people in MK who have ever been soul-raped have either been utterly defenseless humans, or already dead. That's not an argument against the Zelda characters who have protection.

Ganon can legitimately solo this fight. 😐

Ganon overpowered Link in his Ganon form, and he outweighed Link. There are plenty of characters that overpowered Link in OOT, he's only 140 pounds or so despite what the silver or golden gauntlets let him do. So... Shao Khan's wrath hammer would do the same thing if it hit Link. We've already seen how weight can affect Link despite whatever higher end strength feats he's displayed.

Dorf doesn't have any actual TK feats. And he has no combat effective TK shown. So I don't see how that's relevant. Also the master sword doesn't protect Link from every kind of magical attack. Ermac or Shang Tsung's TK would work on him for instance, he has no defense.

Quan Chi, Shan Tsung and Shao Khan can soul steal a planet when working in tandem. Shao Khan alone can do it to thousands at a time. Ganon bringing twilight to Hyrule is context specific, and he had to use someone else to plot and betray to even accomplish in the first place. Furthermore it doesn't compare to merging a planet or a realm. So again, MK can replicate and then surpass.

Raiden did more than Dorf. He absolutely nuked the place. Ganon slowly collapsed the place. A whole world of difference in power. Also Raiden corporealized again after that attack. And it is combat effective, since he used in combat. Ganon has never done anything close in combat.

Ganon even in his physically strongest form was hurt by weapons besides the Master Sword, he's not that durable. Based on cutscenes swords and magic can hurt him.

I don't see him taking Shao Khan's hammer to the face and smiling about it.

EDIT: And what cutsences have Sub Zero hitting people with his cryomancy and failing? Outside of gameplay, getting hit by Sub Zero's cryomancy usually means instant death.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Only he does.

He has consistently shown the ability to create, and in TP he wields the Twili-Beasts through Zant, not to mention all those Moblins who for some reason in TP are not referred to as Moblins.

So he does have an army.

Shut up and lern2Zelda.

I was thinking about the Moblins as I wrote this. But he never personally oversaw the Moblins. They were working independent of Ganon's presence in Hyrule. So.. I already thought of that guy.