Mortal Kombat 9 vs. Twilight Princess

Started by ScreamPaste27 pages

Ganon overpowered Link in his Ganon form,
Which is no different, and still means he's stronger than a character who chucked hundreds of tons with apparent ease.

So... Shao Khan's wrath hammer would do the same thing if it hit Link.
Not without a damn good feat it won't. Shao Khan and his hammer lack a feat good enough to disarm or even hurt Link.

Dorf doesn't have any actual TK feats.
Pardon? With a fraction of his power, Zant instantly defeated Midna, Link, and a light spirit. 😐 Shit, later in the game Midna is overpowered and tossed the side by Ganon as he possesses Zelda as soon as her eyes open.

Quan Chi, Shan Tsung and Shao Khan can soul steal a planet when working in tandem. Shao Khan alone can do it to thousands at a time.

To featless, unprotected humans.

Raiden did more than Dorf.
Negatory, nor did he do enough to even hurt Ganondorf. Did I mention that with the majority of his power sealed away, Ganon has destroyed an island?
Ganon slowly collapsed the place.
I'm referring to when Midna hits Ganon so hard the castle explodes due entirely to pure physical force. Raiden created an explosion, Ganon was kicked in the nuts so hard his house exploded, and he was unhurt.

And it is combat effective, since he used in combat.
While Shang Tsung and Quan Chi held Onaga back long enough for him to charge it.
Ganon even in his physically strongest form
Prove this part.
was hurt by weapons besides the Master Sword
Link knocked him over with the megaton hammer and got the master sword back so he actually could hurt him. Also, cutscenes say hello:
YouTube video
2:50, Ganon tanks a castle busting strike.

I don't see him taking Shao Khan's hammer to the face and smiling about it.
Not only do I not see him taking Shao Khan's hammer to the face at all, being faster and stronger, but he could crush it in his palm. 😐
And what cutsences have Sub Zero hitting people with his cryomancy and failing?
Any scene where he fights another MKer, basically. 😬 They get encased in ice and hit and it shatters off of them, they are not flash frozen.

Also the master sword doesn't protect Link from every kind of magical attack. Ermac or Shang Tsung's TK would work on him for instance, he has no defense.
Prove this claim, plx? The sword is as powerful as the combined triforce, why would they be able to overcome its' protection?

Originally posted by Allankles
I was thinking about the Moblins as I wrote this. But he never personally oversaw the Moblins. They were working independent of Ganon's presence in Hyrule. So.. I already thought of that guy.
He leads Zant.

Who leads the Moblins.

Therefore, he leads the Moblins.

This isn't hard.

Originally posted by Allankles
Ganon doesn't have an army. Hexed temples and unsealed monsters in temples and other places does not an army make.

Ganondorf does control Zant, however, and he does have an army. He overran Hyrule with it.

A small one, yes, but one that is resistant to explosives and capable of transforming those they kill into more of them. Not to mention, if you don't kill them all at the same time, one can revive the others.


And Link hasn't fought Hyrule's army, not that it would be relevant here against what MK have for an army.

A Link to the Past featured Link fighting against the hylian military after they were mind controlled by Ganon. He stormed Hyrule Castle, took Zelda, and excaped, and continued to elude their search efforts. Call it what you want, the soldiers couldn't stop him.


Didn't say they weren't dangerous but they're not smart. And unlike me, MK characters have magic, mysticism and super human stats.

Zant and Ganon's main military force can pull zombie apocalypse and revive themselves, and feature large amounts of undead and heavily armored knights, a small army of bandits (and their shadow counterparts,) and skilled lizards in armor, with shadowy birds and flying armored lizards. They're all skilled in weapons, at the very least, and Shadow Beasts in particular commonly ambush via dropping a barrier and coming in through portals.


No he hasn't. That's like saying the the Elder Scrolls heroes have fought armies. They have fought more enemies per game than Link but they haven't fought armies. Again clearing dungeons of monsters that are not anything like an organized force isn't like facing an army.

Perhaps not, but again he's stormed several castles and taken care of all guards and monsters therein. Though he is much better with one-on-one or one-on-five.


I've read those feats. And outside of using the full triforce they really don't.

In what way? The best I've currently seen is Raiden killing himself to blow up a castle, something Midna also tried and was beaten down for. Only Onaga so far can match that, if I'm seeing right.


What are you talking about? I'm talking about teleportation allowing Outworld's army to overrun Hyrule in a matter of minutes and you're talking about how Link has faced teleportation.

Can every soldier in the army teleport? Note that Shadow Beasts also do this, often throwing down a barrier to trap the target. However, there are defenses against this, such as twilight and the various barriers shown.


What's Link going to do when his Kingdom is easily overrun by a portion of Outworld's army. About half a million warriors landing on all the key military zones in Hyrule and the place is under Shao Khan's control in minutes. If Ganondorf puts up his resistance. The elite guys teleport to his location to face him down.

Probably nothing, since Zant can handle that. Twilight itself forms a barrier that you can't enter or exit without the help of a Twili. If you're inside when the twilight drops, you tend to turn into a harmless little spirit. Perhaps someone's magic can get though, but that's a huge delay and will serve as a pretty big deterrent to any army. Not to mention Ganondorf putting up further layers of resistance via more barriers. If Hyrule's in twilight, it's hard to get in, and Hyrule Castle itself will pretty darn hard to take.

I don't think MK getting in, personally.


Logistically Hyrule has no chance. MK has too much man power and too many resources. They can take over planets, a single Kingdom like Hyrule would be overrun in moments.

Ah, but if Ganondorf doesn't want to give it up, his magic can make it absolute hell trying to get in. I mean, the guy has frozen over Zora's Domain, the source of Hyrule's water. He has some reach.


Except take over a planet filled with WMDs, powerful warriors and millions of fighting men and

Try taking over an area covered by a magical barrier that only lets certain species pass, and transforms you into a harmless soul if you have no protection, or shapeshifts you if you do. Plus the main army is capable of transforming you into more of itself, and every single soldier can revive the others with a scream. In addition to the other barriers that can be thrown up at will, will addition forces including giant monsters and undead.

Originally posted by Allankles
EDIT: And what cutsences have Sub Zero hitting people with his cryomancy and failing? Outside of gameplay, getting hit by Sub Zero's cryomancy usually means instant death.

quanchi112 showed me this, wherein Scorpion is frozen multiple times to non-lethal effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtDYfZ2wuqA

I don't know how many of these others already responded to, but imma get them all anyway.

Originally posted by Allankles
Ganon doesn't have an army. Hexed temples and unsealed monsters in temples and other places does not an army make.

Yeah, he does. There isn't a single game where he doesn't command the vast majority of enemies Link faces.

Originally posted by Allankles
And Link hasn't fought Hyrule's army, not that it would be relevant here against what MK have for an army.

A Link to the Past. Agahnim has mind controlled every soldier in the land, and they're all after Link. Hell, he even storms the castle five minutes after first touching a sword and shield and fights his way into the dungeon, and out of the castle.

Originally posted by Allankles
Didn't say they weren't dangerous but they're not smart. And unlike me, MK characters have magic, mysticism and super human stats.

Not being smart doesn't make them worse or less impressive either. Not to mention even some of the least intelligent animals learn.

All things had by enemies in Zelda, and characters in Zelda.

Originally posted by Allankles
No he hasn't. That's like saying the the Elder Scrolls heroes have fought armies. They have fought more enemies per game than Link but they haven't fought armies. Again clearing dungeons of monsters that are not anything like an organized force isn't like facing an army.

By definition, fighting a large number of enemies is fighting a large number of enemies. As I mentioned, you want Link to fight them all at once, which would imply Dynasty Warriors > Mortal Kombat.

In general, this argument is poor logic.

Originally posted by Allankles
I've read those feats. And outside of using the full triforce they really don't.

Then I must ask you once more to cease ignoring evidence/being biased.

Originally posted by Allankles
What are you talking about? I'm talking about teleportation allowing Outworld's army to overrun Hyrule in a matter of minutes and you're talking about how Link has faced teleportation.

Perhaps you should have actually said that then.

Useless ability is useless. It doesn't matter how many soldiers there are bro, they're all gonna get defeated anyway. The only variables are who goes first and who does the deed.

Originally posted by Allankles
What's Link going to do when his Kingdom is easily overrun by a portion of Outworld's army. About half a million warriors landing on all the key military zones in Hyrule and the place is under Shao Khan's control in minutes. If Ganondorf puts up his resistance. The elite guys teleport to his location to face him down.

Hack through them like the butter they are.

Ganon uses Twilight Field. The foe's soldiers have been mutated and changed sides!

Originally posted by Allankles
Logistically Hyrule has no chance. MK has too much man power and too many resources. They can take over planets, a single Kingdom like Hyrule would be overrun in moments.

Hyrule > MK planets.

Originally posted by Allankles
Except take over a planet filled with WMDs, powerful warriors and millions of fighting men and Shao Khan is leading MK. Shao Khan commands man power measured in the billions. I don't see how Dynasty Warriors compares at all.

Feats above anything I've seen out of MK. Which isn't saying a whole lot, actually, mostly because I haven't seen a whole lot. There's the Raiden castle thing, but I hear he almost killed himself making that happen. Xu Zhu, for example, has thrown a rock larger than any automobile short of an eighteen wheeler.

The dudes in Dynasty Warriors regularly slice through thousands of men with ease. The only challenge they get is from one another.

Originally posted by Allankles
Strenghts against what. Bow's and arrows, a hookshot, a sword? These are the tools at Link's disposal. MK have those plus better ranged weapons, better technology, and mystical and margical arsenals. You really don't see how MK characters have more versatility?

Being incapable of being hurt except by one thing is a pretty damn good advantage in most fights.

Not really, no. Versatility is also something Link is pretty damn good at. Just so you know, I'm pretty sure Link's arrows would pack more force than most, if not all, bullets.

Originally posted by Allankles
We've already been over this. Things like lifting Dangoro, ball and chain feats, pushing metal cages are all gameplay and counted as feats for Link. Why should the way he tackles those supposedly impressive monsters be exempted from the same assessment?

I didn't say they should?

Originally posted by Allankles
When I said obvious, I mean relatively. Someone might find them more obvious than another, obviously Link finds the loopholes. Point is Link needs those exploitations, he's not as versatile as many of the MK elites.

Link needs the exploitations not because he is weak, bro. It's because his enemies are 2gud.

Originally posted by Allankles
You seem to be ignoring the fact that MKers are more versatile overall, and would have more ways of defeating such monsters. Not to mention by demonstrated ability they are the more skillful combatants overall.

Highly doubtful. When Link's level of strength is not capable of busting through say, Dangoro's rocky hide, Sub Zero won't be capable of doing it on his own strength.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Precise, skillful thrusts do not cause metal armor to fly off. At best, the skill required would be to get past the armor, going between the metal bits to strike at more vulnerable inner sections. Contrary to what you seem to be saying, most knights die with their armor on, while whatever killed them either pierced it or hit a gap. That is not what happens with Darknuts. With Darknuts, Link demonstrably cuts through the armor, knocking pieces of it off. He is not maneuvering his sword into holes in the armor, he is cutting right through it.

No, that is not the point. This is strength feat, not a "match up" feat. All I'm proving is that Link has massive amounts of strength via the lifting of Dangoro. We're arguing different things here, you're saying Link needs the boots to fight, while I'm saying he doesn't need them to lift. By proving Link can lift, I'm establishing that Link has superhuman strength, and that has nothing to with how he fight Dangoro. Forget the fight, Dangoro is effectively a weight, and Link lifting and throwing that weight puts Link at levels of strength above MK.

You saw it, Ganondorf was separated into tiny particles before being BFR'd. He was BFR'd, yes, but he was clearly disintegrated beforehand. And he survived, good job. But, you are forgetting that Ganondorf was not at full power to begin with, so why are you treating him as if he was? He just came back to life, and had only gotten the power seconds before, so he didn't even know how to use it. Plus, you still haven't proved it was a hundreds years.

In and out of the room? Out of the room to where? Ganon is not just crossing the room, he actually disappears for upwards of 15 seconds at a time, having gone somewhere else through a twilight portal. He uses the same portals anyone who crosses dimensions uses, and has crossed dimension in several other games. Heck, remember Ocarina of Time (Forest Temple) he opens portals to the gap between dimensions. A Link to the Past features Ganon moving through the Dark World. The guy has escaped every sealing and BFR he's ever been put through, including in Twilight Princess, where he uses Twilight power for it rather his usual styles.

Why is Link beating Ganondorf unimpressive when there was the Master Sword? Where is it said he needs outside emotions, since I've shown you Ganondorf just used it to get strong. He's not even dependant on Zant since, in case you forget, Zant died and Ganondorf was fine. Why is the Mirror being shattered not important? It no longer works on Ganondorf, and that proved it.

Why is being unconscious from a disintegration not impressive? Heck, it means he survived being separated into particles after coming back to life from an impalement. The Mirror is a powerful artifact, if you remember, capable of transforming and corrupting the minds of other creatures, and that was just the fragments, while Ganondorf's banishing tore him to pieces and left him in a spiritual form. Sounds impressive to me.

That's is a major stretch that's not even slightly indicated. "Used hate to regain his strength" somehow became "completely dependent on others" to you? He still has the Triforce of Power, which allowed him too revive after death and survive a disintegration in spirit form, then recovered his strength, so you're just grasping at straws here. The Sages did nt even fight Ganondorf, they just activate a massively powerful artifact to disintegrate him and send him away. In actual combat, the Sages were slaughtered.

He has crossed other dimensions, too, you know, not just the Twilight Realm. It's one of his most common powers, and how he escaped every sealing or banishment placed on him. One of the rather integral parts of his character is that it never works. And then, what's preventing, say, the Sages from BFRing Quan Chi or someone?

That never works, as proven by every Zelda game ever. Also, yes it does, Ganondorf came back to life from both an impaling and having his entire body destroyed twice. He just makes a new one. Again, keeping him dead is the problem here.

Where is it stated that it was a hundred years? I recall seeing it nowhere in the game at any point. In any case, he did not just resist a sword through the chest, though he came back to life from that. He resisted a castle exploding on him and having his entire body destroyed twice, so a decapitation would be nothing to him.

Ganondorf is proven to come back multiple times, and can teleport and cross dimensions as well. He just drops twilight all over Raiden and watches his helpless soul wander around. By the way, "god" means nothing, since it's just a title with no feats. Ganondorf actually survived a castle busting, and the same killed Raiden, so Ganondorf is clearly more powerful, too.

There you go again with "relies on emotions" stuff. No. Ganondorf has been proven to have revived from impalement and bodily destruction through the Triforce of Power alone, he just used emotions to recover from one disintegration before he could fully use the Triforce of Power. Ganondorf can revive Zant an unlimited number of times and is unkillable himself as long as he has the Triforce of Power, so he'll keep coming back anyway. He can kill Quan Chi as many times as he likes.

He is cutting right through it due to weaker armor and his superior sword as well. You trying to act like it's all his strength is ridiculous and ignoring times when he doesn't do so against other knights. Like I said if Link hits an mk fighter it depends on where just like if Scorpion spears him it depends on where on the body.

Link's lifting of them doesn't put him above mk feats of strength which is the point as a) we don't know exactly how much the goron weighs
b)Link can't stop a resisting force only lift an immobile goron after the boots have given him the weight needed for the feat.

Against mk fighters they can rip Link's head off so it doesn't matter as all here have the strength to hurt the other.

No, he wasn't disintegrated he was bfr'd his molceules were just like when he changes forms he isn't disintegrated that's just his molecules changing shape or moving.

It states it in the dialogue about how much times passes and he had the triforce which was just used so him being unconscious proves actions other than the master sword can still hurt him even in hyrule.

Oot isn't applicable to this thread because it isn't the same Dorf. So please quit using feats outside this game. Also I already stated if for argument's sake he learned how to cross twilight to hyrule not cross any dimensional pathway he wants.

The mirror is outside this thread anyways and it being shattered later doesn't pertain to how mk fights against them. The point was made this bfr along with the injuries he sustained shows he can take damage and be ko'd from it. Thanks for making this very clear to all.

The sages did fight him with the mirror. Prior to they easily chained him up. Dor fthen used the triforce of power so the sages quickly out thought Dorf and used the twilight mirror to still beat him. That's what happened in combat.

The rest has already been explained I am not going to keep addressing the same points over and over again.

Wrong. Raiden also reformed under his own power and destroyed the castle, an army, and two sorcerers under just his own power on the video. Dorf's battle with Midna happened off screen and there's no proof it was all him just probably a combination of the two's battle. Dorf was also killed by far less a sword while Raiden can come back after being completely destroyed. Raiden's combat also seems much more fluid and faster than Dorf's slow actions. The guy only managed to attack one sage and was easily defeated. Stick to mk fighters on Dorf and he will get pummeled on due to his slow reaction and will probably be ko'd like after the bfr.

You also haven't proven raiden cannot adapt to twilight. It's like me saying they steal all of hyrule's souls via Quan Chi/Shao Kahn's magic.

Raiden's on screen feat is clearly more powerful than Dorf's who you can't even prove did it completely on his own.

He was revived after impalement like an adrenaline rush because after the bfr he was unconscious. Without outside emotions he can't reach his all time high power levels which were still defeated by Link.

Quan Chi also revived Shao Kahn after Liu Kang punched through his body and supposedly killed him. Quan Chi can revive Shao Kahn one of the most elite warriors in all of mk. So outside of zant you can't rez any big guns like Dorf or Link just Zant. To stop that process they just take out Dorf which Quan Chi himself can easily do.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Ganondorf, Zant , and Midna can all teleport and create portals. Midna and Ganondorf can become intangible and Midna's TK can lift a huge section of a bridge so it's clearly much more powerful than Ermac's (and Zant/Ganondof have overpower Midna's TK.) Midna can teleport multiple people against their will, too. She'll just TK crush anyone that tries something and transform into her Fused Shadow form if needed for giants.

Stallord is neither weak nor nameless, and Ganondorf effectively created Zant, who can merge two dimensions at will or just transform them and take their powers away. They've also made the Shadow Beast, which turn anyone they kill into another Shadow Beast and Zant can transform people into Shadow Beasts as well. They're all killers, too, if you hadn't noticed.

That's still not what I'm saying, however. Best and Lift are not the same thing, I'm just proving that Link is strong enough to lift the Gorons' weight, and that makes him stronger than MK characters I've seen.

So it means nothing, got it.

Link survives swords in gameplay and takes an axe to the face/sky cannon without damage, too, so not sure what you're getting at. Link is strong enough to cut people in half, so depending on where it hits he can kill them.

Then you can't say. There's no evidence either way, but it is implied Link won pretty easily, since Bo comments on how strong has become in such a short time. Similarly, the Goron Elder fight is implied to be just one bout since he says mostly the same thing as if Link wasn't wearing the boots.

The horse is moving this way --->

Link hits King Bulblin and he flies this way ^

What you're saying is Link's sidewise force was increased despite the fact that he was moving forward, when this simply isn't true.

Except that Link is also demonstrably stronger than MK characters as well. Pretty sure we don't agree there. Sure MK can hurt Link, though.

I've seen no one in MK move this fast, so pretty sure Zant outspeeds them. Zelda characters are also skilled killers, though, and I'm not sure why you would say they aren't.

Midna tking an immense structure isn't the same thing as actively using it in combat against multiple foes. Ermac's tk has been used in combat to tk off an arm which he could do easily to Dorf I might add.

Too many giants for her to overcome and Raiden can easily self destruct defeat her since it's been proven to best her before.

The skeletons they create are weak compared to mk elite fighters. that's the point and Quan Chi can create skeletal warriors as well as unkillable specters who keep coming back.

You act as if Mk verse despite their powerful magic can't resist shadow magic who defeated who besides a pathetic, quivering hyrulian army with how many feats ? Mk easily pwned modern day earth. Yeah, jets, tanks, and the army of just the united states would hammer hyrule within an hour.Drop one bomb and bye bye hyrule.

Lifting strength also doesn't pertain to hitting strength. it's like saying Ronnie Coleman can punch harder than Mike Tyson. It doesn't take a genius to understand lifting strength doesn't mean who is a better fighter or hits harder. Mk fighters have combat strength feats while Link has lifting feats and his combat feats are gear induced without a reliance on his fists like the mk fighters can kill you with.

When has Link ever cut someone in half ? Mkers can do so with their strength alone not on a reliance on a weapon.

Still in the same strength class either way. Link isn't some genetic freak no matter how insane you want to play this.

Like I said Link can't do so without the horse so irrelevant to Link on his own.

No, he isn't you just want to pretend he can win a lift a thon but irl punching power is different than lifting power.

What ? Outspeeds them what are you even watching ? he moves around awkwardly and without any real sense of combat but you think he outspeeds everyone in mk. You don't even realize how quickly Kabal is or any of the moves especially if you think Zant who lacks any real type of excelled skill in terms of reflexes, etc. on par with mk's standard fighters.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Which is no different, and still means he's stronger than a character who chucked hundreds of tons with apparent ease.

Not without a damn good feat it won't. Shao Khan and his hammer lack a feat good enough to disarm or even hurt Link.

Pardon? With a [b]fraction of his power, Zant instantly defeated Midna, Link, and a light spirit. 😐 Shit, later in the game Midna is overpowered and tossed the side by Ganon as he possesses Zelda as soon as her eyes open.

To featless, unprotected humans.

Negatory, nor did he do enough to even hurt Ganondorf. Did I mention that with the majority of his power sealed away, Ganon has destroyed an island?
I'm referring to when Midna hits Ganon so hard the castle explodes due entirely to pure physical force. Raiden created an explosion, Ganon was kicked in the nuts so hard his house exploded, and he was unhurt.

While Shang Tsung and Quan Chi held Onaga back long enough for him to charge it.
Prove this part.
Link knocked him over with the megaton hammer and got the master sword back so he actually could hurt him. Also, cutscenes say hello:
YouTube video
2:50, Ganon tanks a castle busting strike.

Not only do I not see him taking Shao Khan's hammer to the face at all, being faster and stronger, but he could crush it in his palm. 😐
Any scene where he fights another MKer, basically. 😬 They get encased in ice and hit and it shatters off of them, they are not flash frozen.

Prove this claim, plx? The sword is as powerful as the combined triforce, why would they be able to overcome its' protection? [/B]

I had to pick you up on this one, because if your talking about OoT Ganon, he had shown enough strength to knock a light sword a few meters+, this was not a physical collide/wrestle of strength.

What feats of protection do you even have for Link? also i think he was hinting at the fact it would knock him flying, hence why he brought up weight.

Zant overpowered, Zant displays a lot of feats Ganon does not, the logic that anyone who uses the same power source as another portrays the feats the former can also use is illogical. A similiar power source can be a catalyst for different powers.

Which is funny because thats what Zant did to Hyrule in TP, only he did not steal anything, just layered an already excistent dimension over Hyrule which affects them through its nature.

😆 entirely pure physical force? we dont even know if Midna caused the explosion, for all you know that was the counter attack made by Ganon that destroyed Midna.

Also your taking things out of context, the master sword is never stated to protect againt anything other than evil, and without feats you would be comitting no limits fallacy even on that claim. This whole "more powerful" thing is unfounded, it was simply designed as a precaution to it which does not mean its more powerful, simply has a capability to nullify it (which I have yet to see).

I had to pick you up on this one, because if your talking about OoT Ganon, he had shown enough strength to knock a light sword a few meters+, this was not a physical collide/wrestle of strength.

In the battle with him he can destroy huge pillers and boulders with sword swings. I'm not sure if it counts as Gameplay mechanics (personally I'd say no) but there you go.

he had shown enough strength to knock a light sword a few meters+

No, he displayed enough strength to knock a sword from the hand of a character who can toss hundreds of tons with apparent ease. The fact you have to be able to go get the sword back to finish the game needs to be taken into account, boyo.

A similiar power source can be a catalyst for different powers.
Kindly prove this speculative bullshit. We have direct statements throoughout TP Zant's power comes from Ganon and we see Ganon use TK.

You speculating Ganon can give powers he doesn't even have ofcourse makes this even easier for the Zelda team. 😬 A shame he's never displayed that. (I'm also having a hard time thinking of useful powers he doesn't already have.)

Which is funny because thats what Zant did to Hyrule in TP, only he did not steal anything, just layered an already excistent dimension over Hyrule which affects them through its nature.
The way he achieves it is still more effective, being able to force Link into wolf form when he doesn't have the master sword.

entirely pure physical force? we dont even know if Midna caused the explosion, for all you know that was the counter attack made by Ganon that destroyed Midna.
We don't see anyone but Midna attack, but if it had been Ganon who decided to destroy the castle, rather than simply defeat her, we probably wouldn't have seen her alive at the end. 😬

Also your taking things out of context, the master sword is never stated to protect againt anything other than evil
While not true, also moot, the characters listed are evil. And the sword is sentient, to boot.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In the battle with him he can destroy huge pillers and boulders with sword swings. I'm not sure if it counts as Gameplay mechanics (personally I'd say no) but there you go.

True enough, but my point was that hundreds of tonnes was not in the strike.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No, he displayed enough strength to knock a sword from the hand of a character who can toss hundreds of tons with apparent ease. The fact you have to be able to go get the sword back to finish the game needs to be taken into account, boyo.

Kindly prove this speculative bullshit. We have direct statements throoughout TP Zant's power comes from Ganon and we see Ganon use TK.

You speculating Ganon can give powers he doesn't even have ofcourse makes this even easier for the Zelda team. 😬 A shame he's never displayed that. (I'm also having a hard time thinking of useful powers he doesn't already have.)

The way he achieves it is still more effective, being able to force Link into wolf form when he doesn't have the master sword.

We don't see anyone but Midna attack, but if it had been Ganon who decided to destroy the castle, rather than simply defeat her, we [b]probably wouldn't have seen her alive at the end. 😬

While not true, also moot, the characters listed are evil. And the sword is sentient, to boot. [/B]

Not really, theres more than one way of getting the sword back. Iirc you cannot jsut go and get the sword anyway since theres a fire wall preventing this, it was still only a light sword knocked a few meters, if there were thousands of tonnes in that strike link would have gone flying along with the sword.

Electricity, a power source used to power a hundred different things to do a hundred different things. We know his "power" comes from Ganon but since hes the conduit for said power you cannot claim theres nothing Zant can do that Ganon cannot do. Then why are you using Zants Tk rather than Ganons TK if Ganon has done it?

Your making the claim here now that Ganon chose each specific power he gave Zant, rather than the statement from the game that he gained "power" from Ganon, Zant is more general.

Arguable, since we dont know 100% how he achieves it.

"probably", even I would argue Midna has more resistance than stone walls.

I am not sure that even answers this part of my post, when has it stopped directly all these powers the MK side have, such as TK and soul devouring?

True enough, but my point was that hundreds of tonnes was not in the strike.

Yeah, I definately agree with you that knocking a sword out of his hand doesn't = overpowering him. Arm muscles don't come into play with grip strength.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I definately agree with you that knocking a sword out of his hand doesn't = overpowering him. Arm muscles don't come into play with grip strength.
mariofacepalm
You realize the muscles that power your grip ARE INFACT IN YOUR ARM, RIGHT? Are you legitimately arguing Link's strength does not apply to holding onto his weapon? 😐

I did not realise that. It seems non-sensical to me that the arms would come into play with anything to do with the fingers. Grip strength being your ability to keep your fingers closed around something as tightly as possible.

But I'm researching so I'll see if I'm wrong.

I would like confirmation of that as well, not that it would change anything. Clearly Link was not prepared with full strength for the blow, otherwise he would have gone flying into the air along with his sword.

Also the feat concerning the pillar toss=all of Links body, including his legs, back etc, not just his hands/forearms. So overpowering Links hands may only be a few tons at best even using SP's reasoning.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I did not realise that. It seems non-sensical to me that the arms would come into play with anything to do with the fingers. Grip strength being your ability to keep your fingers closed around something as tightly as possible.

But I'm researching so I'll see if I'm wrong.

Simple test, run your thumb along the underside of your forearm with your fingers relaxed, watch them move. The tendons attached to your fingers are anchored to muscles in your forearm, this is where we get the strength to support our own weight when we do things like chin-ups. Did you think we had really tiny biceps in our fingers? 😛

I would like confirmation of that as well, not that it would change anything. Clearly Link was not prepared with full strength for the blow
Clearly not prepared or holding on tightly while assuming a defensive stance and trying to block? Righto.

If he was holding on tightly he would have either kept his sword (since the force used knocked it only a short distance) OR he would have gone with the sword since hes not heavy enough to weigh the force down.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He is cutting right through it due to weaker armor and his superior sword as well. You trying to act like it's all his strength is ridiculous and ignoring times when he doesn't do so against other knights. Like I said if Link hits an mk fighter it depends on where just like if Scorpion spears him it depends on where on the body.

Weak armor? There's nothing at to indicate this, please show me your source. Superior sword I'll give you, as that one is stated multiple times. However, knocking armor off is still super strong, and if Link cuts through metal that easily what do you think he'll do to flesh?


Link's lifting of them doesn't put him above mk feats of strength which is the point as a) we don't know exactly how much the goron weighs
b)Link can't stop a resisting force only lift an immobile goron after the boots have given him the weight needed for the feat.

A) Show me a Mortal Kombat character lifting something bigger than Dangoro. If you can't do this, Link is stronger.

B) Lifting that Goron proves Link is strong enough to put multiple tons (calc'd at around 60, but still obviously superhuman without that number) behind his sword strikes. Nothing else really matters.


Against mk fighters they can rip Link's head off so it doesn't matter as all here have the strength to hurt the other.

Link's been fired out of a cannon at water, he's a bit more durable than you give him credit for.


No, he wasn't disintegrated he was bfr'd his molceules were just like when he changes forms he isn't disintegrated that's just his molecules changing shape or moving.

That was before he had any twilight power, though, so he'd never been in particle form. Heck, the fact that he was reduced to his
"god" form should show you that his body was destroyed. That he survived is highly impressive.


It states it in the dialogue about how much times passes and he had the triforce which was just used so him being unconscious proves actions other than the master sword can still hurt him even in hyrule.

Where in dialogue? And yes, Quanchi, I have never denied that enough power can hurt Ganondorf, though it would have to be above an exploding castle. The problem I've repeatedly told you is actually killing and keeping him dead. Ganondorf can survive without a body, so hurting his body really doesn't affect him much, unless the Master Sword is used.


Oot isn't applicable to this thread because it isn't the same Dorf. So please quit using feats outside this game. Also I already stated if for argument's sake he learned how to cross twilight to hyrule not cross any dimensional pathway he wants.

It is the same Ganondorf, though, and you would know this if you would finish the game. Twilight Princess's Ganondorf was just captured before OoT's Ganondorf could get the Triforce. Later feats would not be applicable, but early ones like creating Ghoma and reviving the Dodongo species would count. Then later he become ALttP Ganon.


The mirror is outside this thread anyways and it being shattered later doesn't pertain to how mk fights against them. The point was made this bfr along with the injuries he sustained shows he can take damage and be ko'd from it. Thanks for making this very clear to all.

Why isn't the Mirror in this thread? It's clearly put back together in the game, and the Sages have used it. My point, however, is that Ganondorf escapes BFRs and I never said he could not be hurt. However, Ganondorf was undamaged by an exploding castle, so you're going to need suicide Raiden levels of power to fail to harm him.


The sages did fight him with the mirror. Prior to they easily chained him up. Dor fthen used the triforce of power so the sages quickly out thought Dorf and used the twilight mirror to still beat him. That's what happened in combat.

They captured him because he did not have the Triforce of Power at that point. Then they executed him via impalement, and he received the Triforce of Power, coming back to life and breaking his chains. The combat consisted of Ganondorf making the Sage of Water explode. Then the Sages activated the Mirror while Ganondorf was standing there, yes. In direct combat, though, Ganondorf was more than capable of killing them in one hit.


Wrong. Raiden also reformed under his own power and destroyed the castle, an army, and two sorcerers under just his own power on the video. Dorf's battle with Midna happened off screen and there's no proof it was all him just probably a combination of the two's battle. Dorf was also killed by far less a sword while Raiden can come back after being completely destroyed. Raiden's combat also seems much more fluid and faster than Dorf's slow actions. The guy only managed to attack one sage and was easily defeated. Stick to mk fighters on Dorf and he will get pummeled on due to his slow reaction and will probably be ko'd like after the bfr.

Stop underestimating the Master Sword. Seriously, stop it. Anyway, Ganondorf tanked a castle, and the same exact thing killed Raiden, and according to you, Quan Chi and Shang Tsung as well? Raiden came back from having his body destroyed, yes, but please don't forget that the Ganondorf has done the same exact thing. Ganondorf has made a new body on at least two occasions. Still looking more powerful than Raiden, and the castle explosion puts him at or above Onaga's durability. Against MK fighters, Ganondorf grabs them and they explode, or possesses one of them, or heck, just drop a castle exploder or half on them, since that is shown to kill them.


You also haven't proven raiden cannot adapt to twilight. It's like me saying they steal all of hyrule's souls via Quan Chi/Shao Kahn's magic.

I don't have to prove a negative, you have to prove that Raiden [b]can[/i] adapt to twilight. Has he done similar before? Besides, Quan Chi and Shao Khan's magic can't take Link, Ganondorf, or Zelda's souls because of their shown resistance. Zant and Midna, too, have shown resistance to soul based effects. In fact, most Twili have.


Raiden's on screen feat is clearly more powerful than Dorf's who you can't even prove did it completely on his own.

He was killed by it, Ganondorf wasn't. Therefore, Ganondorf is much more durable than all MK fighters save maybe Onaga. Ganondorf doing even half of it is still much faster than Raiden, too.


He was revived after impalement like an adrenaline rush because after the bfr he was unconscious. Without outside emotions he can't reach his all time high power levels which were still defeated by Link.

He was revived after impalement because that's when the Triforce of Power activated. The BFR used a massively powerful artifact that destroyed Ganondorf's body. When he recovered he proved he could now recover much faster, since his body was destroyed twice in his boss fight, and he tanked an exploding castle. Link won thanks to the Master Sword, so stop ignoring that one.


Quan Chi also revived Shao Kahn after Liu Kang punched through his body and supposedly killed him. Quan Chi can revive Shao Kahn one of the most elite warriors in all of mk. So outside of zant you can't rez any big guns like Dorf or Link just Zant. To stop that process they just take out Dorf which Quan Chi himself can easily do.

Ganondorf ca revive Zant an unlimited number of times, though, and Ganondorf can and has revived himself multiple times over a few minutes. The Light Spirits likely revived Midna, so there's that, too. Has Quan Chi shown he can revive anyone else? After Ganondorf kills him that'll stop, though.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Midna tking an immense structure isn't the same thing as actively using it in combat against multiple foes. Ermac's tk has been used in combat to tk off an arm which he could do easily to Dorf I might add.

It shows her TK is much more powerful than Ermac's, and she could easily use it in combat. Heck, she could drop a bridge on them or hit them with a huge volcanic rock. She could also just teleport them somewhere else. Whereas Zant's TK overpowers Midna's and throws her around. Both are easily strong enough to rip Ermac apart.


Too many giants for her to overcome and Raiden can easily self destruct defeat her since it's been proven to best her before.

I doubt those giants can take like Midna. Raiden's castle buster is way too slow to work before Midna kills him.


The skeletons they create are weak compared to mk elite fighters. that's the point and Quan Chi can create skeletal warriors as well as unkillable specters who keep coming back.

Same exact thing. The difference being that Ganondorf can create skeletons that put themselves back together and has Zant, who can be revived instantly. Not to mention the Shadow Beasts that create more of themselves and revive each other. Plus stuff like Stallord.


You act as if Mk verse despite their powerful magic can't resist shadow magic who defeated who besides a pathetic, quivering hyrulian army with how many feats ? Mk easily pwned modern day earth. Yeah, jets, tanks, and the army of just the united states would hammer hyrule within an hour.Drop one bomb and bye bye hyrule.

I have seen nothing to indicate that they can resist it, an "powerful magic" doesn't cut it. Show me every MK fighter resisting something similar to twilight or they have no resistance. Now, can you prove any of those jets, tanks, or bombs were actually used against MK?


Lifting strength also doesn't pertain to hitting strength. it's like saying Ronnie Coleman can punch harder than Mike Tyson. It doesn't take a genius to understand lifting strength doesn't mean who is a better fighter or hits harder. Mk fighters have combat strength feats while Link has lifting feats and his combat feats are gear induced without a reliance on his fists like the mk fighters can kill you with.

It kinda does; the stronger you are, the more force you can put behind your blows, and Link has strength in the tons. Link can easily cut through metal armor, and toss giant rock monstrs and ice masses, he's clearly stronger than they are. One hit with a sword is all it would really take.


When has Link ever cut someone in half ? Mkers can do so with their strength alone not on a reliance on a weapon.

As if Legend of Zelda would actually do that. No, when Link hits someone with a sword, they explode. Can you show me an MK character making someone explode with a punch?


Still in the same strength class either way. Link isn't some genetic freak no matter how insane you want to play this.

He lifts and throws multiple tons, that way, way past human.


Like I said Link can't do so without the horse so irrelevant to Link on his own.

Come on, at least try to listen to what I'm saying. The forces are acting in different directions, so the fact that King Bulblin went sideways instead of forward means he overpowered the horse's momentum, which should have made King Bulblin go forwards, but didn't. That's how physics works.


No, he isn't you just want to pretend he can win a lift a thon but irl punching power is different than lifting power.

To a certain point, but that doesn't really matter when you get into the multiple ton range. Humans just can't do that, hence the "superhuman" title.


What ? Outspeeds them what are you even watching ? he moves around awkwardly and without any real sense of combat but you think he outspeeds everyone in mk. You don't even realize how quickly Kabal is or any of the moves especially if you think Zant who lacks any real type of excelled skill in terms of reflexes, etc. on par with mk's standard fighters.

Obviously I do, since Zant in that one scene moved faster than I've seen anyone in Mortal Kombat ever move. Show me someone moving faster and I'll change my mind, but at the moment Zant's speed outstrips that of every MK character I've seen.

and the castle explosion puts him at or above Onaga's durability.

Onaga only survived because he had an artifact that made him immune to magic, hence him walking through their blasts in that cutscene. He was beaten by hand later in the game. 😛 The artifact was also taken from him.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Onaga only survived because he had an artifact that made him immune to magic, hence him walking through their blasts in that cutscene. He was beaten by hand later in the game. 😛 The artifact was also taken from him.

Then never mind, Ganondorf currently stomps Onaga into the ground durability wise.