And his defenses have been breached by Ventress and Dooku on several occasions. Typically when we discuss Kenobi vs ______, his "impenetrable" defenses are brought up. I think the point centers on the fact that the line of thinking regarding his saber skills needs to be adjusted somewhat. For instance, Kenobi vs Windu for instance; There were many who argued that because of Kenobi's Soresu, Windu would not be able to penetrate his defenses. Well, if his duels with Ventress tell us anything, it's that he has been FAR too overated in this area.
Originally posted by RE: BlaxicanAgreed. I think what was being argued is that if you have a master of Soresu and a master of Juyo (both near the same level), the latter will be able to breach the defenses of the former. That is something that certainly cannot be said about every form.
Anyone's defenses are "impenetrable" when they fight someone who is less skilled than them.Obi-Wan's defenses have been penetrated by people who were fighting better than him, for whatever reason.
The styles they used weren't factors.
Of course Power, Connection to the Force, and Level of Mastery within the chosen form makes a huge difference. Yoda's Ataro will of course get past Obi-Wan's defences.
But the style will make a difference when we are considering 2 duelists on a similar power/mastery level.
In those cases Juyo/Vapaad (and Makashi for that matter) are simply better fencing styles than Soresu, and should hold the advantage in a Saber duel.
Im not even convinced he gets through 1..
Qui-Gon was no pushover. People tend to think of him as one because he fought Maul and got killed.
But loosing to a guy chosen and trained by Sidious is nothing to be ashamed of.
He was actually said to have been one of the best swordsmen of his era. An era that included Yoda, Dooku, Mace, Plo Koon, Fisto e.t.c.
And I believe in the novel it is stated his lightsaber instructor believed Qui-Gon to be the best swordsman he trained in over 200 years.
Also young Obi-Wan was still a force to be reckoned with. Though not yet Qui-Gon's equal, his training was complete and he clearly put up a decent brawl against a Sith lord.
And Darth Maul had a dual saber designed to take on multiple opponents. Im not sure how well Obi-Wan with his single blade and defensive style will hold against 2 formidable Jedi.
TPM Qui-Gon was a practitioner of Ataru - a very physically intensive and tiring form (especially for an older man.) Imo, he'd be worn out before he ever put a dent in RotS Kenobi's defenses... And I personally don't think TPM Obi-Wan's skills were refined enough to breach said defenses either.
But it would still be a very good fight regardless.
Originally posted by Galan007
TPM Qui-Gon was a practitioner of Ataru - a very physically intensive and tiring form (especially for an older man.) Imo, he'd be worn out before he ever put a dent in RotS Kenobi's defenses... And I personally don't think TPM Obi-Wan's skills were refined enough to breach said defenses either.But it would still be a very good fight regardless.
We've discussed the fact that Kenobi's defenses have been FAR overated in this forum. I see no reason why Qui-Gon would not (absolutely) be able to penetrate Kenobi's defense or at the very least disarm him, given Kenobi's track record against Ventress.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Considering Ventress would wipe the floor with Qui-Gon, I'm going to have to disagree with that.
Ah but its not just Qui-Gon. Its Qui-Gon plus TPM Obi-Wan.
Im not convinced of Obi-Wan's defences with one lightsaber being uber enough to hold off 2 jedi. Especially not when one of those Jedi is considered one of the best swordsmen of TPM era.
Originally posted by Galan007
This.Also, TCW Kenobi =/= RotS Kenobi. There may not be much of a time gap between the two, but there is a time gap none the less.
Any proof of a significant difference??
Originally posted by DARTH POWERHis defenses not being overwhelmed (in sabers) by the likes of Dooku, Grievous, and Anakin during RotS?
Any proof of a significant difference??
Also, during the yearS-long span in which The Clone Wars took place, Kenobi was almost continuously engaging in lightsaber combat. If you are constantly utilizing a particular form, it stands to reason that your overall prowess with that form would increase.
Originally posted by Galan007
His defenses not being overwhelmed (in sabers) by the likes of Dooku, Grievous, and Anakin during RotS?
Dooku didnt fight him in Sabers very long at all, and was mostly doing so at the same time he was fighting off Anakin.
Beating Greivous in a duel does not make him any better CW Kit Fisto.
As for Anakin, we've been through this time and again, he wasn't on form in that fight. Far from it. Plus Anakin vs. Obi-Wan was a very different fight. They knew each others moves inside out, so actually neither of them could get through each other's defences.
Originally posted by Galan007
Also, during the yearS-long span in which The Clone Wars took place, Kenobi was almost continuously engaging in lightsaber combat. If you are constantly utilizing a particular form, it stands to reason that your overall prowess with that form would increase.
Considering Anakin has his scar, CW series has to be in the last year of the Clone Wars.
Add this to the fact that Obi-Wan is already on the council, I dnt think theres really much room for significant improvement.
There might have been, but I think proof is required before we believe that.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Any proof of a significant difference??
As of AOTC he used Ataru. As of ROTS he is the greatest master of Soresu in the Jedi Order. As well as his constant fighting in the CW's and the fact that Dooku flat out is surprised at his prowess in ROTS as opposed to the way he toyed with him in AOTC.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERLove the low-balling here. srsly
Dooku didnt fight him in Sabers very long at all, and was mostly doing so at the same time he was fighting off Anakin.Beating Greivous in a duel does not make him any better CW Kit Fisto.
As for Anakin, we've been through this time and again, he wasn't on form in that fight. Far from it. Plus Anakin vs. Obi-Wan was a very different fight. They knew each others moves inside out, so actually neither of them could get through each other's defences.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERAnakin got his scar during the last year of The Clone Wars? Nah.
Considering Anakin has his scar, CW series has to be in the last year of the Clone Wars.
Fact is, there are quite a few continuity errors regarding when TCW takes place - but from what I've read, it is supposed to be set in 21 BBY (so the year after AotC concluded.) Thus there is currently a two year gap between the animated show, and the RotS film.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERLike I said: Dooku didn't disarm him, Grievous didn't disarm him, and Anakin didn't disarm him (all of whom are =/> Asajj in the saber department.) I'm not saying Kenobi has a defense that just cannot be breached (obviously it can) - but making remarks like, "TCW Kenobi was disarmed, therefore RotS Kenobi would be disarmed just as easily" is kind of faulty, all things (ie. time gaps) considered. Imo.
Add this to the fact that Obi-Wan is already on the council, I dnt think theres really much room for significant improvement.There might have been, but I think proof is required before we believe that.
Originally posted by Nephthys👆
As of AOTC he used Ataru. As of ROTS he is the greatest master of Soresu in the Jedi Order. As well as his constant fighting in the CW's and the fact that Dooku flat out is surprised at his prowess in ROTS as opposed to the way he toyed with him in AOTC.
Originally posted by Nephthys
As of AOTC he used Ataru. As of ROTS he is the greatest master of Soresu in the Jedi Order. As well as his constant fighting in the CW's and the fact that Dooku flat out is surprised at his prowess in ROTS as opposed to the way he toyed with him in AOTC.
🤨 Uhm... NO! As of TPM, he used Ataru... as of AotC, he used Soresu.