CISless Zoom vs Odin

Originally posted by Galan007
As extreme as he sounds, h1 really does understand speed to a better degree than most.

I disagree with him applying feats to characters FAR beyond what they've ever done on panel - but his theories really are pretty accurate.

I don't have issues with the math. I have issues with him trying to have his cake and eat it, too, though. Real world logic and fact =/= the comic book universe. And formulas, while nice and all, don't even begin to show anything close to what we're offered in the comics themselves. Even the attempts of "hard science" in comics don't really do "real science" justice. It just doesn't work that way.

Futhermore, Geoff Johns, Mark Waid, and pretty much every noticeable DC writer responsible for handling the Flash Mythos and Zoom has never even once hinted at something as astronomically absurd as "galactic force striking power". It's obvious to most that their intent for handling these characters is to "make them move fast and hit really hard when they do". Anything beyond hitting with high herald force ala Superman is a massive leap in faith in their abilities with no on panel proof or even allusion toward that kind of display.

Originally posted by Galan007
The word 'logic' doesn't apply to speedsters at all. Ever.

Galactus can be injured by physical attacks.

Originally posted by Wodenson
Galactus can be injured by physical attacks.

Originally posted by SasuOna
I see your set on derailing this thread 🙄

Yes he has a shot at winning because he can launch a multitude of offenses against Galactus or any abstract just like with any other character he has a massive speed advantage over.

However none of those tactics would be effective against a pure energy being like Galactus.
You can't steal speed from energy and you can't dump him into the speed force because he would just come back.
Physical attacks are even more unlikely to work
The only way I could see Zoom getting a win is if he tried to overload Galactus with kinetic energy.

As it stands CISless Zoom could stalemate but he'd lost a lot more often
Now this has nothing to do with the fight with Odin back on topic

😂

Because he's a Cosmic Entity. If Galactus gets punched in the face with sufficient force, it hurts, it's as simple as that I'm afraid. You can steal speed from an energy being, Wally West did exactly that during the Cosmic Teleportator arc.

A side question that you don't have to answer, do you think Odin could lose through a Speed Force dumb? I'm just curious.

This the criteria you set out earlier on:

Originally posted by SasuOna
Can Odin survive getting punched nonstop from Supes for a day? Nope
Can Zoom replicate that type of feat based on his powerset instantly? Yes
Can Odin get an attack off before he is killed? No

Unfortunately, the only one that could be placed in favor of the Devourer is the first, and that would most likely require him being fed.

So once again, how does Galactus beat an all out Zoom or Flash? He'd get blitzed into unconsciousness before he knows what's happening as he has no feats to support reacting to that level of speed and being hit with that level of physical punching power in a short amount of time.

Reply back in this thread:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t551795.html

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I don't have issues with the math. I have issues with him trying to have his cake and eat it, too, though. Real world logic and fact =/= the comic book universe. And formulas, while nice and all, don't even begin to show anything close to what we're offered in the comics themselves. Even the attempts of "hard science" in comics don't really do "real science" justice. It just doesn't work that way.

Futhermore, Geoff Johns, Mark Waid, and pretty much every noticeable DC writer responsible for handling the Flash Mythos and Zoom has never even once hinted at something as astronomically absurd as "galactic force striking power". It's obvious to most that their intent for handling these characters is to "make them move fast and hit really hard when they do". Anything beyond hitting with high herald force ala Superman is a massive leap in faith in their abilities with no on panel proof or even allusion toward that kind of display.

Originally posted by Wodenson
Galactus can be injured by physical attacks.

edit* and i think aegis and tenebrous

Remember the time Thor caused him pain with a hammer throw? Shit, Galactus is pretty much f*cked.

We also know that when blitzing with "millions" of punches, those punches aren't very powerful. See the Powergirl fight.

So it's more like, I know the comics disagree....but this is how I think it should work.

I've said a long long time ago that Galactus durability is not all that...it is below juggernauts

Originally posted by psycho gundam
iirc all you have are his fights with the unrestrained in-betweener and full-power tyrant to go on

edit* and i think aegis and tenebrous

Originally posted by Starscream M
I've said a long long time ago that Galactus durability is not all that...it is below juggernauts

Originally posted by psycho gundam
everyone's durability is below juggernaut's, that's the point of the juggernaut

Originally posted by Harbinger
Didn't Chaos King-amped Zeus knock him down?

Tyrant was drawing blood from Galactus...

and?

Originally posted by Galan007
As extreme as he sounds, h1 really does understand speed to a better degree than most.

I disagree with him applying feats to characters FAR beyond what they've ever done on panel - but his theories really are pretty accurate.

h1a8 doesn't even get behind his own numbers. He spits them out after he's cajoled, and then when he's asked to stand behind them in different situations, he runs away trying to deflect back onto Odin's durability, the theory of relativity, etc. I would have thought his predilection for spewing out numbers would blunt the evasiveness that is characteristic of all superspeed proponents. It doesn't. Par for the course.

Zoom with infinite mass can knock out Odin in a single punch? Fine, let's take your quantifications for granted. Odin hasn't shown any increased speeds so he wouldn't react before a single real-time second passes, much less an attosecond? That's fair from an evidentiary standpoint, let's run with it. Zoom with attosecond speeds throwing one punch a day (in his relativistic timeframe, i.e., a Zoom day) could still throw 31.71 billion punches in the real-time second it takes for Odin to react? Fine, but why stop there?

It only takes one punch per Odin, so how about 31.71 billion Odins? He knock them all out before any of them can react in a single real-time second? Silence.

That's how your math bears out, but you won't answer... so how many Supermans does he knocked out with that speed? Silence.

Wait, why are we lowballing Zoom and limiting his ability to throwing just one punch in an accelerated Zoom day... phuck it, he can throw at least one punch/sec in his own relativistic time-frame. That's 86,400 punches per Zoom day (24 hrs x 60 min x 60 sec). Multiply that by 31.71 billion Odins. That's 2.74 quadrillion Odins in a single real-time second.

So Zoom, going all out and not being limited to one punch per accelerated Zoom day, can knock out 2.74 quadrillion Odins by the time a single real-time second passes? Silence.

Illogical extrapolation =/= understanding. Laying down and then immediately retreating from the absurd results =/= comprehension. Conveniently lowballing Zoom's own speed when passing your arbitrary mathematics =/= accuracy.

It's retarded.

Originally posted by Galan007
As extreme as he sounds, h1 really does understand speed to a better degree than most.

I disagree with him applying feats to characters FAR beyond what they've ever done on panel - but his theories really are pretty accurate.

Actually, he's already said he used a math program to get the numbers...so it's not like he figured this out on his own.

I can run French newspaper stories through a translation program...that doesn't mean I understand French.

a calculator maybe...?

let's get some scans in here. this zoom/odin stuff is all talk at this point

Originally posted by h1a8
I suggest one use a math software like Mathematica or just go to Wolfram alpha to do these types of calculations for normal calculators don't hold enough digits to spit out these numbers.