Darkseid, Thor, Silver Surfer vs Thanos, Superman, Blue Marvel.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Darkseid wasn't weakened he just got his powers back.

The comparison of Black Adam to Darkseid's performance against the Spectre speaks volumes to me. Every character varies from writer to writer it's just another thing you want to ignore. I just wanted to illustrate the point it isn't just Superman who makes darkseid look bad.

Darkseid wasn't weakend? He wasn't even in his own body. I don't know what part of that makes him seem 100% normal to you.

Spectre's power doesn't just vary from writer to writer. I realize that happens with every character and we all accept that as a fact. But Spectre's powerset by definition is variable. And even if this were a valid comparison, and believe me it's not..

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
👆 Yes, though it will be completly ignored by the pro-Thanos fraction, it's their only way to put him over Darkseid. Lowball Darkseid with Superman, lowball Superman with other Heralds...

Originally posted by carver9
To bad Darkseid is low to mid Herald.

Congratulations.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So, basically, what I hear is:

Darkseid's losses to Superman are PIS

and/or

It's okay for Superman to beat Darkseid occasionally due to Superman's status and power level. No other high herald can replicate the same victories though because they clearly aren't Superman.

You'd have to ante up and provide more evidence of any given Herald's ability to beat Darkseid than just saying "Superman did it, ergo X can too"

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm not going to say Surfer or Thor can't possibly beat Darkseid, just that given how different their powersets are (neither Thor nor Surfer are the super fast physical powerhouse that Superman is in a close-in fight) its fallacious to take Superman's victories over Darkseid as proof in of itself that any other Herald can beat Darkseid.

You'd have to ante up and provide more evidence of any given Herald's ability to beat Darkseid than just saying "Superman did it, ergo X can too"

Of course, which is what I said a while ago.

I just have issues with the questionable logic others are putting up concerning Darkseid and Superman. People are writing off Superman's legit victories over Darkseid as PIS (to save face for Darkseid, I guess) and in the same breath also saying "Well, it's okay for Superman to beat Darkseid eventually, anyway, because he's > high heralds and Superman rises above to win in the end".

Just seems funny to me. especially the idea that Darkseid is supposed to be portrayed as > high herald, yet a high herald can oppose him and beat him...only that said high herald isn't a high herald when he does such a thing. By that same logic, when Thor goes into skyfather and beyond battling mode, he evolves into High-Herald + Thor. Or when Surfer does the same. And they both have feats on par or superior to beating Darkseid as how he's portrayed in his fights with Superman.

It just seems like an attempt to try and paint both characters as something more than they are, imo.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Of course, which is what I said a while ago.

I just have issues with the questionable logic others are putting up concerning Darkseid and Superman. People are writing off Superman's legit victories over Darkseid as PIS (to save face for Darkseid, I guess) and in the same breath also saying "Well, it's okay for Superman to beat Darkseid eventually, anyway, because he's > high heralds and Superman rises above to win in the end".

Just seems funny to me. especially the idea that Darkseid is supposed to be portrayed as > high herald, yet a high herald can oppose him and beat him...only that said high herald isn't a high herald when he does such a thing. By that same logic, when Thor goes into skyfather and beyond battling mode, he evolves into High-Herald + Thor. Or when Surfer does the same. And they both have feats on par or superior to beating Darkseid as how he's portrayed in his fights with Superman.

It just seems like an attempt to try and paint both characters as something more than they are, imo.

Superman/Batman is a much safer example, we don't have Superman defeating Darkseid in a manner that he should given his powerset be capable of easily overcoming, there we have a sunamped Superman just wrecking Darkseid across the Cosmos and then sticking him into the Source Wall.

I think if Superman in that state (amped, pissed, and going all out) caught either Surfer or Thor on his proverbial horns they'd end up in the same state as Darkseid, or worse.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
👆

That's the problem. People still think Superman is just another Herald, while he is portrayed often enough to be above herald level, and is treated like a cosmic being. He is a cosmic being, a nexus being. Any other Herald would get stomped by Darkseid.

but serisously, DS has been watered down and is frequently crippled by pis or cis when dealing with SM, he really shouldnt be defeated by any herald

Originally posted by 753
😆

but serisously, DS has been watered down and is frequently crippled by pis or cis when dealing with SM, he really shouldnt be defeated by any herald

He is a nexus being, even a cosmic one. Stated on panel. 😕

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
He is a nexus being, even a cosmic one. Stated on panel. 😕

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Those were the main two I was thinking of. Given their feats and how they rank in power and versatility, they could each give Darkseid an ass kicking, imo.

Agreed

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Of course, which is what I said a while ago.

I just have issues with the questionable logic others are putting up concerning Darkseid and Superman. People are writing off Superman's legit victories over Darkseid as PIS (to save face for Darkseid, I guess) and in the same breath also saying "Well, it's okay for Superman to beat Darkseid eventually, anyway, because he's > high heralds and Superman rises above to win in the end".

Just seems funny to me. especially the idea that Darkseid is supposed to be portrayed as > high herald, yet a high herald can oppose him and beat him...only that said high herald isn't a high herald when he does such a thing. By that same logic, when Thor goes into skyfather and beyond battling mode, he evolves into High-Herald + Thor. Or when Surfer does the same. And they both have feats on par or superior to beating Darkseid as how he's portrayed in his fights with Superman.

It just seems like an attempt to try and paint both characters as something more than they are, imo.

Don't let this forums bullshit regarding Darkseid fool you. Posters on here have been blowing his low showings out of proportion since the beginning of time. I remember when some idiots were trying to low ball him when he fell down steps, like it had any relevance to the threads they where posting in. 🙄

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
[B I remember when some idiots were trying to low ball him when he fell down steps, like it had any relevance to the threads they where posting in. 🙄 [/B]

Darkseid vs Colossus would be a good thread to make.

Originally posted by 753
that just a forum injoke, nobody uses that as a serious display

Originally posted by Cogito
Darkseid wasn't weakend? He wasn't even in his own body. I don't know what part of that makes him seem 100% normal to you.

Spectre's power doesn't just vary from writer to writer. I realize that happens with every character and we all accept that as a fact. But Spectre's powerset by definition is variable. And even if this were a valid comparison, and believe me it's not..

So you admit everyone's character varies from writer to writer so thus me bringing up Black Adam against a dov Spectre is actually a better example since imo he was more powerful than the Hal Jordan Spectre.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Of course, which is what I said a while ago.

I just have issues with the questionable logic others are putting up concerning Darkseid and Superman. People are writing off Superman's legit victories over Darkseid as PIS (to save face for Darkseid, I guess) and in the same breath also saying "Well, it's okay for Superman to beat Darkseid eventually, anyway, because he's > high heralds and Superman rises above to win in the end".

Just seems funny to me. especially the idea that Darkseid is supposed to be portrayed as > high herald, yet a high herald can oppose him and beat him...only that said high herald isn't a high herald when he does such a thing. By that same logic, when Thor goes into skyfather and beyond battling mode, he evolves into High-Herald + Thor. Or when Surfer does the same. And they both have feats on par or superior to beating Darkseid as how he's portrayed in his fights with Superman.

It just seems like an attempt to try and paint both characters as something more than they are, imo.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm really not sure how anyone with any sense and any knowledge of Darkseid as a character and his abilities could read Apokolips Now and not call it PIS.

Superman/Batman is a much safer example, we don't have Superman defeating Darkseid in a manner that he should given his powerset be capable of easily overcoming, there we have a sunamped Superman just wrecking Darkseid across the Cosmos and then sticking him into the Source Wall.

I think if Superman in that state (amped, pissed, and going all out) caught either Surfer or Thor on his proverbial horns they'd end up in the same state as Darkseid, or worse.

What we do know is Superman has broken Darkseid on panel and that Darkseid isn't beyond high herald since Orion also has done the same. You can't dismiss everything just because you believe Darkseid shouldn't lose in this manner. Your opinion is irrelevant when viewing the evidence the writers decide what the evidence is not you.

The funniest thing is it just isn't one writer who has chosen to put Superman and Darkseid as capable of beating the other and in the same league.

Originally posted by carver9
Darkseid vs Colossus would be a good thread to make.

You are now trolling Carver, seriously.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
He is a nexus being, even a cosmic one. Stated on panel. 😕

Every being step above and beyond their tier "every now and then". Jubilee even steps above her tier sometimes. Its called "high showings" and out of all of the Heralds, Thor has the best and consistent high showings out of the bunch.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
You are now trolling Carver, seriously.

I'm just messin with ya. I was foreal on my previous post though.

If Superman had been able to beat Darkseid because of some unique ability that only he possessed then I could understand someone arguing that Surfer or Thor couldn't do the same, even though I may disagree. But it wasn't a unique ability, it was speed and brute force plain and simple. There is no evidence that Superman is significantly stronger than Thor or significantly faster than Silver Surfer. That being said, Blue Marvel could sit this one out. Thanos takes out Surfer and Thor, Superman takes out Darkseid, game over.

Originally posted by carver9
To bad Darkseid is low to mid Herald.

Originally posted by carver9
Mid Meta? 😕

Darkseid is arguably greater than High Father - A sky father.

If he (DS) uses all of his abilities, he should defeat Superman. But when he fights like Zeus did against the Hullk, he loses.