Silver Surfer & Thanos vs Flash & Zoom

Originally posted by leonidas
the analogy is totally inappropriate. everyone (my 5yr daughter included) knows the earth doesn't weigh 5 pounds. not everyone knows that if you take all those numbers they gave, throw them in an equation and work it out that they will reveal that the feat is far beyond ftl. it's nowhere near the same thing.

That goes back to the point that people want to reject the claim because it is "too complex" something common on these forums, and probably on others as well.

You have a daughter? Aww...

The book said how fast he was moving, what's the argument?

I agree, they gave the exact numbers too...

If the narration can’t be trusted in regards to the level of speed used in the feat, why can it be trusted in regards to the time the feat took?

Because it was the authors intent to have the feat performed under that time limit, below C.

He knew what he intended, but his math is wrong.. Therefore, the feat triumphs his intentions.

Again, it's the same as Captain America on panel outracing a bullet, and subsequently claiming he can't outrace a bullet.. The author may have intended Cap to be slower than a bullet, and outpace the shooter, but if the art makes it look like he's outrunning the bullet, that trumps Caps words or any narration..

Bingo.

Originally posted by cdtm
Again, it's the same as Captain America on panel outracing a bullet, and subsequently claiming he can't outrace a bullet.. The author may have intended Cap to be slower than a bullet, and outpace the shooter, but if the art makes it look like he's outrunning the bullet, that trumps Caps words or any narration..

really? so you have a scan showing where the writer/narrator SPECIFICALLY said--TWICE--that cap was moving BELOW bullet speed, yet still ran faster than a bullet? because THAT is what would be a nearly equal analogy. i await the scan eagerly.

Are you all STILL talking about that ft? Let it go...if its this much trouble getting people to accept a contradicting feat, why even use it?

Here's another way to look at it. If Flash was doing the feat, and the narration said he was only running 60 miles per hour, nobody would believe he did that in that case either.

Originally posted by leonidas
really? so you have a scan showing where the writer/narrator SPECIFICALLY said--TWICE--that cap was moving BELOW bullet speed, yet still ran faster than a bullet? because THAT is what would be a nearly equal analogy. i await the scan eagerly.

I have scans of Cap and DD claiming they can't move faster then a bullet.

In DD's case in particular, we know that's hogwash, since he'd need to keep pace with a bullet just to deflect one with precision.we've seen him keep pace with bullets before, and deflect them with precision.

Originally posted by cdtm
Because it was the authors intent to have the feat performed under that time limit, below C.

He knew what he intended, but his math is wrong.. Therefore, the feat triumphs his intentions.

Again, it's the same as Captain America on panel outracing a bullet, and subsequently claiming he can't outrace a bullet.. The author may have intended Cap to be slower than a bullet, and outpace the shooter, but if the art makes it look like he's outrunning the bullet, that trumps Caps words or any narration..

You can't pick and choose which part of the narration is wrong.

Because, I can use the same argument to say that the time frame part of the narration is the part that's wrong.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I think people would if they look at the numbers and didn't skim over them. The scale of 5 lbs to the Earth's weight, and light speed to 13 trillion times light speed is vast.

That goes back to the point that people want to reject the claim because it is "too complex" something common on these forums, and probably on others as well.

You have a daughter? Aww...

you seriously believe that the bulk of people who read that and looked at the numbers would conclude the feat was ftl??? you, my friend, are losing it. i wonder if you polled the US and canada how many people would actually know the speed of light? i wonder how many would know velocity equations? now, factor in that most comic readers are young kids--have loads of kids in my gr5 class who read comics and i GUARANTEE none of them would have a clue. how many young highschoolers reading in their room would know? an incredibly small amount imo.

you act like i'm rejecting the conclusion you came to. i've already said--repeatedly--the feat should be tossed from the forum as both sides can lay equal claim to it. since it can be used to support both, it should be used for neither. ever.

and actually, i have TWO daughters... 😉

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Here's another way to look at it. If Flash was doing the feat, and the narration said he was only running 60 miles per hour, nobody would believe he did that in that case either.

but it didn't say that. nor would it. ever. he said near light speed, which, to most, is really really fast. fast enough for people to beleive he could have done it without having a much firmer grasp on what actually took place.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Here's another way to look at it. If Flash was doing the feat, and the narration said he was only running 60 miles per hour, nobody would believe he did that in that case either.

Besides, didn't the feat take place after Wally was able to tap into the speed force, and had feats exceeding light speed?

So it's not like he has a ceiling of sub light..

Originally posted by cdtm
I have scans of Cap and DD claiming they can't move faster then a bullet.

In DD's case in particular, we know that's hogwash, since he'd need to keep pace with a bullet just to deflect one with precision.we've seen him keep pace with bullets before, and deflect them with precision.

i can hit a baseball moving at 80mph. can i run 80mph?

your analogy is still not even close to what we're talking about. show a scan where the narrator said he is moving SLOWER than a bullet while he's outrunning one. that would be a similar comparison.

Originally posted by leonidas
but it didn't say that. nor would it. ever. he said near light speed, which, to most, is really really fast. fast enough for people to beleive he could have done it without having a much firmer grasp on what actually took place.

Most of the best speed feats get crunched by fans. This isn't any different.

Writers aren't known for their math skills, so why place so much emphasis on his faulty match, instead of on what the feat shows?

Between the feat and the math, something has to give.. And imo, on panel feats trump all, providing a character proves he has the capability to perform such a feat. And Flash has that proven capability..

If this was Wonder Woman, I'd be arguing against the feat with you, because she's certainly below light speed.

Originally posted by cdtm
Most of the best speed feats get crunched by fans. This isn't any different.

Writers aren't known for their math skills, so why place so much emphasis on his faulty match, instead of on what the feat shows?

Between the feat and the math, something has to give.. And imo, on panel feats trump all, providing a character proves he has the capability to perform such a feat. And Flash has that proven capability..

If this was Wonder Woman, I'd be arguing against the feat with you, because she's certainly below light speed.

it has nothing to do with his 'cap'. at all. it SAYS he was moving below c. in order to understand he was NOT, in order to disregard what was said by the writer--twice--you need to do MATTH EQUATIONS. you honestly feel that the writer intended for readers to perform math? to come to a conclusion OTHER than the one he intended?

your perogative.

i am arguing NOTHING about the feat, other than what i feel the writer intended. i feel safe in saying he did not intend us to use math to disprove his words.

Originally posted by cdtm
Most of the best speed feats get crunched by fans. This isn't any different.

Writers aren't known for their math skills, so why place so much emphasis on his faulty match, instead of on what the feat shows?

Between the feat and the math, something has to give.. And imo, on panel feats trump all, providing a character proves he has the capability to perform such a feat. And Flash has that proven capability..

If this was Wonder Woman, I'd be arguing against the feat with you, because she's certainly below light speed.

Because the same feat has the writer--on two occasions--saying that Flash was moving sub-C when Flash performed it. Should that be discounted in favor of the math? IMO, one really isn't that much more reasonable than the other here, given the circumstances.

Just because a character has done something in the past doesn't mean that he/she always does it. Supes has moved FTL before during both flight and in battle. Doesn't mean that he always travels FTL, or that he always moves FTL in battles, though. Capability does not equate to "always being done."

Also, given that Diana's moved FTL before, and even entered the Speed Force under her own power, I'm not sure that's the best example to use.

EDIT: Or, simply what leo said above me.

Originally posted by leonidas
i it SAYS he was moving below c. in order to understand he was NOT, in order to disregard what was said by the writer--twice--you need to do MATTH EQUATIONS. you honestly feel that the writer intended for readers to perform math? to come to a conclusion OTHER than the one he intended?

But dude..

That's what happens on comic book sites, all the time. It's not like this is some special case with Flash to crib in a feat that otherwise wouldn't make it.. Fans crunch numbers and use equations constantly to promote feats. Hell, under the board rules we have a figure given for the "speed of thought". What's the point of that, if not for the number crunchers to plug into their equations..?

Except this time, the comic gives us a speed.