Originally posted by h1a8
It's called common sense. Why would a writer choose to not sell comics?
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
That is fine, but most people who read comics don't know offhand most appearances of any character, or the exact lifting strength of Spider-Man, or how strong Wolverine is. They just know they are guys in costumes who do cool stuff. Casual readers probably think Wolverine would beat Superman up close (if they like him more).In a casual reading session that's fine, but in a debate we have to look at things closer if we are not used to doing so.
using myself again as the example i would disagree. i've always known the characters very well. that is a far cry different from recognizing by looking at a set of numbers, that that we should ignore narration because if we use a formula it is clear that the numbers mean he moves faster than light.
a FAR cry different.
and i've said already in the forum, this scene should be inadmissible in any debate. my point was the authors intent and what he figured most readers would get from it.
Originally posted by King Kandy
So you're basically telling me that the flash-rescuing-city storyline was the only possible storyline the writer could have thought up? If I am writing a character who I hold to clearly established limits (sub-c), I am not going to suddenly have him go a quintillion times faster because gosh, an issue without that just wouldn't sell as well. When I write stories, I try and get internal consistency not just making things up as I go along (let alone get my math wrong; and then have people tell me that the mistake was right and my story was wrong).
Flash has exceeded light speed many times. The writer knows this, so he knows that the comic is still going to sell if he decides to let flash go above light speed. Who in the hell wouldn't buy a flash comic only because he went above the speed of light? You make no sense.
I don't know about you but it is common sense that flash saving all those people when a nuclear bomb went off is awesome as hell and will sell a lot of comics no matter how fast flash was going. The writer is not going to do double work and rewrite the story when the original is excellent enough and will sell (the main purpose of why the writer was hired).
Originally posted by King Kandy
Under c = sub c.
But his speed was close enough to call it C..
The speed of sound is 330 miles/sec (I think).. If something is travelling at 329.99 miles per sec are we going to call that Sub speed of sound??
I think it would be close enough to round it off to the speed of sound.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
Chill dude.
Originally posted by leonidas
using myself again as the example i would disagree. i've always known the characters very well. that is a far cry different from recognizing by looking at a set of numbers, that that we should ignore narration because if we use a formula it is clear that the numbers mean he moves faster than light.a FAR cry different.
and i've said already in the forum, this scene should be inadmissible in any debate. my point was the authors intent and what he figured most readers would get from it.
👆
The authors intent in that scene is pretty clear and just by "looking" at the set of numbers given, not many people would assume FTL as opposed to what is clearly written there. (heck even the author himself didnt and he made the numbers). Furthermore ,authorial intent is a pretty important principle of mainstream hermeneutics and can absolutely not be seperated from a debate about the meaning of a piece of literature . Sadly, this happens pretty often but seeing that this is a forum where everyone is supporting their favorite characters and with few having any sort of knowledge of interpretation theory, I suppose this is to be expected.
Best make it inadmissible and be done with it.
Originally posted by leonidasYea but it's such a big difference. Which begs the question. How complex is too complex?
using myself again as the example i would disagree. i've always known the characters very well. that is a far cry different from recognizing by looking at a set of numbers, that that we should ignore narration because if we use a formula it is clear that the numbers mean he moves faster than light.a FAR cry different.
and i've said already in the forum, this scene should be inadmissible in any debate. my point was the authors intent and what he figured most readers would get from it.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Yea but it's such a big difference. Which begs the question. How complex is too complex?
not sure it begs that question. at least not in this case. i'd feel safe in saying that in ANY case where some form of 'math' is needed to show direct contradiction with the written word--that's too complex. the forum is different.
as i said--i feel most word simply take the writer at his word in this case and in fact in MOST cases. why? because most would never feel the NEED to know different.
Originally posted by leonidasBut there are many inconsistencies and wrong things said in comics, countless examples. People reading that would notice that it is at least past light. If they read it sensibly (most people skim through boring numbers and math anyways though).
not sure it begs that question. at least not in this case. i'd feel safe in saying that in ANY case where some form of 'math' is needed to show direct contradiction with the written word--that's too complex. the forum is different.as i said--i feel most word simply take the writer at his word in this case and in fact in MOST cases. why? because most would never feel the NEED to know different.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
But there are many inconsistencies and wrong things said in comics, countless examples.
yep, i said that earlier. there are ALWAYS ambiguities or out-right nonsense. authors don't seem to let nonsense get in the way of a good story though (the whole 'plank length' with nate is another example).
People reading that would notice that it is at least past light.
disagree. strongly. it would mean most people knew what the speed of light was in the first place.
If they read it sensibly (most people skim through boring numbers and math anyways though).
yep.
most ambiguities only come up in the forum. and that makes sense. when comics are broken down enough they will almost always fall apart. from a simple punch that sends someone through a wall without killing them, to someone lifting a supercarrier without is snapping in the center, to hulk's pants. we're simply not meant to look at them the way we do here.
Originally posted by leonidasIf people don't know what light really is, how would they know what the implications were, and it wouldn't make a difference at that point.
yep, i said that earlier. there are ALWAYS ambiguities or out-right nonsense. authors don't seem to let nonsense get in the way of a good story though (the whole 'plank length' with nate is another example).disagree. strongly. it would mean most people knew what the speed of light was in the first place.
yep.
most ambiguities only come up in the forum. and that makes sense. when comics are broken down enough they will almost always fall apart. from a simple punch that sends someone through a wall without killing them, to someone lifting a supercarrier without is snapping in the center, to hulk's pants. we're simply not meant to look at them the way we do here.
If the calc was done and the difference was say 5%, nobody would make a big deal, but since it is such a large difference. People dislike it. That and the fact that the means to find it were "complex".
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
If people don't know what light really is, how would they know what the implications were, and it wouldn't make a difference at that point.If the calc was done and the difference was say 5%, nobody would make a big deal, but since it is such a large difference. People dislike it. That and the fact that the means to find it were "complex".
assuming people don't know that the speed of light=really fast is, again, VASTLY different from them (a) knowing exactly what it is, and (b) being able to look at numbers and understand the numbers are saying the narration is wrong and should be ignored. c'mon bro.... not even CLOSE to the same thing.....
Originally posted by leonidasI've pointed this out before in regards to the flash that honestly I don't think people are really trying to beat the character himself but more the force behind him. A bit like a more reliable Phoenix force because honestly as long as the Flash's using it are in the proper mindset and "grounded" as it has been stated then they really can use it to it's fullest extent. at least Barry and Wally can. So for me them fighting at their fullest extent in character would be to use the Speedforce to the fullest in a fight to basically dodge whatever incoming attack is coming at them making them nigh impossible to hit. It is a dimension that only speedsters (and Gorflack) have been shown to be able to access and the flash can drop people like Mongul seemingly with relative ease. Speedsteal and its implications are shoe on head retarded. Also for people saying Flash seems to have problems with ftl... wow. just wow. Considering he smokes supes in races when serious with negligible ease and because of his abilities his top speed for all intents and purposes is his fight speed when shown against characters like Zolomon or Thrawne. Thats really slower than light there... mmhmmm I pat you on the shoulder for confirming that Flash's lightspeed abilities are limited. Outracing death was also definitely an authors mistake. My bad in thinking Black racer was so fast.
assuming people don't know that the speed of light=really fast is, again, VASTLY different from them (a) knowing exactly what it is, and (b) being able to look at numbers and understand the numbers are saying the narration is wrong and should be ignored. c'mon bro.... not even CLOSE to the same thing.....
Originally posted by h1a8
If Superman is seen lifting a real world Abrams tank (65 tons), as said by the narration, and yet the author thought the actual tank was 10 tons and thus said in the narration, "The 10 ton tank was nothing for the man of steel". So did Superman lift 10 tons or 65 tons? He lifted the 65 tons of course. The writer didn't mean for Superman to lift 10 tons but rather he THOUGHT that Superman lifted 10 tons. His mistake was not knowing the facts about an Abrams tank. In the same vein, the writer didn't mean for flash to go under light speed, but rather HE THOUGHT flash was going under light speed.There are many feats (like CA supposedly outrunning bullets) where the writer had characters doing things they really don't know the facts about. But if they knew the facts then they would have revised their narration or art. For example, if the writer KNEW Flash had to be going far faster than light to save all those people then he would have said that Flash was moving at countless multiples of the speed of light INSTEAD of just under the speed of light.
Originally posted by Uriel005
..............I pat you on the shoulder for confirming that Flash's lightspeed abilities are limited. Outracing death was also definitely an authors mistake. My bad in thinking Black racer was so fast.
as opposed to what the writer of that nuke scene intended, i literally have no clue what this jumble of idiocy was intended to prove.
author says flash is going ftl=flash going ftl. author says flash NOT going ftl=flash not going ftl. you bringing up instances where flash was both said AND shown to be going ftl makes your post assinine.
i'm not saying anything about the force. did you actually read anything i said or the people with whom i was conversing said? WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE INTENT OF THAT PARTICULAR SCENE. not any other feat, not the speedforce you seem to worship and hold as invincible. seriously, go away, preach elsewhere. your stupidity regarding the flash and the speedforce have rendered it a forum joke, and your own opinions are echoed in those jokes. you've done far more harm than good regrading flash and his powers. and ffs, if you want to call me out for something, at least make sure you're calling me out for the right thing.
Originally posted by leonidasThey may not know the exact number. But this is on the scale of Superman lifting the Earth and saying it weighs 5 lbs. Do we believe that the Earth actually weighs 5 lbs?
assuming people don't know that the speed of light=really fast is, again, VASTLY different from them (a) knowing exactly what it is, and (b) being able to look at numbers and understand the numbers are saying the narration is wrong and should be ignored. c'mon bro.... not even CLOSE to the same thing.....
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They may not know the exact number. But this is on the scale of Superman lifting the Earth and saying it weighs 5 lbs. Do we believe that the Earth actually weighs 5 lbs?
the analogy is totally inappropriate. everyone (my 5yr daughter included) knows the earth doesn't weigh 5 pounds. not everyone knows that if you take all those numbers they gave, throw them in an equation and work it out that they will reveal that the feat is far beyond ftl. it's nowhere near the same thing.