Thor (without Mjolnir) VS Wolverine

Originally posted by Gorbag
Here are examples of Wolverine's strenght for Rewmac, I just want you to know Logan is capable of lifting far more than 180 kilos... 😄 About two tons is his max.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2964/treebatot7ud1.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1373/supportelevatorxa0jn4.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/29/steelshatterqv1tj3.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1030/shattersteel2po6ur1.jpg

Your lack of knowledge about Logan is terrifying, dude😮‍💨

Who cares how strong Wolverine is? It isn't going to keep him from being launched into orbit.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The tidal forces inside the sun cannot be compared in any way to piercing damage.

Who all has Thor been pierced by, and when I say pierced I mean fatally wounded?

Originally posted by Rewmac
If comics are how they are why do you call Wolvie wins low showings, bad writings and even PIS sometimes?? When they are how they are...Then Namor knocks Wolverine out...It is how the comic is.

See you're making a mistake here.. You think that just because I might call "low showing or PIS" on something that I'm automatically omitting it from the discussion entirely... I'm not... Where feats are concerned, I tend to look at a majority rules system. When something's usually considered PIS or a low showing, it's because it goes against the grain of the majority of material and proof that exists.
I have no problem with low showings being represented, what I have a problem with is them being brought up out of context and with the idea that they take precedence over the majority when they don't.

How they are, Namor doesn't knock Wolverine out, unless of course Wolverine's being cheap shoted after fighting Namor's royal guard and regenerating some 98% of his entire body. 😉

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't wolverine almost out on his feet when he took a straight shot from spider man.

In Secret Wars, Spiderman hit Wolverine and while it knocked Wolverine down, he was up again by the next panel.
In the Graveyard fight, Spiderman layed into Wolverine with "everything he had" and Wolverine smiled at him.
In the Marvel Comics Presents fight, Wolverine shrugged off Spiderman's punches.
In the Marvel Knights encounter, he did it again as if nothing happened.
During the Spiderman arch where Peter threw Logan out Tony Starks skyscraper, Wolverine came right back up and brushed himself off.
In terms of brute force, Spiderman's never posed much success against Wolverine.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Anyway my point his carrier hes generally been in the Street leveler class. Hes had several bouts with street class and each have given him a run.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
I don't see wolverine taking Ben Grimm let alone someone of Thor's caliber (please don't mentions EOTS)

Why shouldn't I bring up EOTS..

The fact of the matter is that facts discredit your opinion.
Wolverine's had the advantage over Thing several times in 616 and once in the ultimate universe.. Usually, NO, Wolverine wouldn't stand a chance against someone like Thor. But against THIS THOR? He has more than a fair chance of winning, in spite of what your opinion tells you, the facts say differently.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
even glads admits hes can't beat thor.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Where talking about a guy that throws a mallet at thre times the speed of light. Don't get me wrong I like wolverine (I am not just some hater) but he has had a piss filled career.

Originally posted by jinzin
When something's usually considered PIS or a low showing, it's because it goes against the grain of the majority of material and proof that exists.
I have no problem with low showings being represented, what I have a problem with is them being brought up out of context and with the idea that they take precedence over the majority when they don't.

😛

Originally posted by His Airness
It's fairly obvious you've been absent for a lot of Thor's continuity otherwise you'd place your fanboyisim behind you and realize Mjolnir or not, Wolverine has absolutely no chance against Thor. However I see this isn't going to happen.

Originally posted by His Airness
Yet at the same time, during the pinnacle of Thor's continuity he's consistently shown capable of fighting Surfer, Gladiator, etc on fairly even ground. Do Wolverines reflexes stack up? No.

Surfer, a guy with a 2 in the fighting ability department has not been fast enough to react to the carnage symbiote. He's been humilated by Spiderman, Daredevil, Black Panther. He wasn't fast enough to even react to the first half of his fight with Rhino. He's had trouble dealing with Sleepwalker (This means next to nothing, but in an alternate reality Wolverine killed him, and held off Gladiator for 6 days).

Why the comparisons? Well look no further than below.

Originally posted by His Airness
Would you use the same logic when debating against Superman? In all fights, Superman doesn't use his speed although it's obvious from previous showings that he's faster than his opponent. The same can be said for Thor, especially since it's been established on panel that both consistently hold back in fights.

Thor fighting characters doesn't really display to me any valuable proof of his speed or reflexes.. Which is why I... NEED... FEATS.... Something where his speed or reflexes can either be clearly seen or read stated upon.

Originally posted by His Airness
Now your assuming Mjolnir provides Thor with enhanced reflexes? More unnecessary speculation.

Originally posted by His Airness
Never claimed Thor couldn't be cut, only that no fatal wounds would be inflicted upon him. The sun feat should support this as it would take extreme durability to withstand the trillion upon trillions of tons of ripping pressure the core produces.

Originally posted by His Airness
With the exception of Thanos, Thor is superior to all the characters you mentioned. The Thanos feat is PIS as is and holds no credibility on these forums.

Originally posted by His Airness
So all the characters you mentioned are able to stand in the core of the sun, take shots from Zeus, take shots from Celestials, etc? 😐

Originally posted by His Airness
The sun feat, and the Viking feat aren't considered evidence? 😐

No one said that.

Originally posted by His Airness
You still haven't explained how Wolverine's going to keep Thor from punting him into orbit.... 😕

Umm yes I have, several times infact.

Originally posted by Badabing
Does that mean the deer kick doesn't count? dur

😛

Umm I'm pretty sure I just explained that it does count, but if it only counts 10% compared to the other 90% of the evidence out there.. well how much weight does it hold here? 😬

Originally posted by His Airness
Thor has stalemated Hulk in strength a few times, once completely owning him, once killing him. Feat wise their pretty much equals, however on paper Hulk should be stronger.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk3.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk4.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorowninghulk5.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorvseverybody6.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/Thorvseverybody7.jpg

Also, shouldn't that shield throw from Cap be similar to a strike from Wolverine?

Thor has almost always done so, with the use of odinforce and his hammer.
In terms of BRUTE STRENGTH, which is what we're discussing, I've seen Hulk perform better feats.

Originally posted by His Airness
Also this fight could play out similar to the Wolverine Sentry feat considering Thor is stronger, more durable, more experienced, more skilled, and arguably faster than Sentry.

Ummm no it couldn't... First off Wolverine probably wouldn't have had to heal from having his throat garroted, second, he can cut Thor, he couldn't cut Sentry. 😬

Originally posted by His Airness
You've never seen Thor augment his speed through magic, at least not Classic Thor.

Do you honestly believe an artist has to visibly show character fighting at super speeds? I hope not, because in the same breath you'd be asking to see every page as blurs. Thor's fought characters that fight at multiples of the speed of light, it's obvious he's out of Wolverines league.

Thor's done it in a spiderman comic.

And thor fights character's that FLY at the speed of light, no one's debating his flight speed.. I need to see prove of his fighting speed.

YES, ARTISTS CAN DEPICT CHARACTER'S FIGHTING AT SUPER SPEEDS...

I've seen them do it with Speed Demon, Quick Silver, underwater Namor, and Spiderman from Marvel. I've seen it from Wonder Woman, Superman, and Flash from DC. I've seen it from basically every character ever drawn in DBZ. I've even seen speed displayed by the art in fights with PEAK HUMAN CHARACTERS like Daredevil, Batman, Storm Shadow, and Snake Eyes. Implying that I haven't seen Thor fight at super speeds because artists can't draw it is the biggest copout you could pull here.. ESPECIALLY in a comic book where the art is supplemented by a narrative that EMBELISHES the story of the art. 😬

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The tidal forces inside the sun cannot be compared in any way to piercing damage.

THANK YOU.

Originally posted by jinzin
Umm I'm pretty sure I just explained that it does count, but if it only counts 10% compared to the other 90% of the evidence out there.. well how much weight does it hold here? 😬

Originally posted by Badabing
Damn dude, I put a dur and a 😛 in my post and you still took it serious. Lighten up or you'll start hating this place. 🙁

Bit too late for that...

Listen; its just that it doesn't let up with you.. whether you know us or not the relentless badgering does get one's patience.

Originally posted by jinzin
Bit too late for that...

Listen; its just that it doesn't let up with you.. whether you know us or not the relentless badgering does get one's patience.

Okay, cool, I mean I'm not trying to burn bridges with you, it's just that there's enough Wolvie resentment on here to go around without friends putting more fuel into the fire.
Being a Wolverine fan I have to cover my tracks and walk on eggshells just to have any sort of credibility here, trying to explain away one of your pesterings or jokes isn't so much something that needs to be addressed to you as it does "them". But I'd really rather not have to all, the, time.

Originally posted by jinzin
Physically? sure.. No one said Spiderman lacks the strength to knock Wolverine over. But Spiderman has NEVER been successful in knocking Wolverine out, or anywhere near it.

In Secret Wars, Spiderman hit Wolverine and while it knocked Wolverine down, he was up again by the next panel.
In the Graveyard fight, Spiderman layed into Wolverine with "everything he had" and Wolverine smiled at him.
In the Marvel Comics Presents fight, Wolverine shrugged off Spiderman's punches.
In the Marvel Knights encounter, he did it again as if nothing happened.
During the Spiderman arch where Peter threw Logan out Tony Starks skyscraper, Wolverine came right back up and brushed himself off.
In terms of brute force, Spiderman's never posed much success against Wolverine.

Wolverine's generally accepted as being a class above most street levels. Hell, his first appearance was against not only the Hulk but Wendigo as well.
No one's saying that street levels can't give Logan a run for his money, all we're saying is that he has more than enough to give bricks a run for their money.

Why shouldn't I bring up EOTS..

The fact of the matter is that facts discredit your opinion.
Wolverine's had the advantage over Thing several times in 616 and once in the ultimate universe.. Usually, NO, Wolverine wouldn't stand a chance against someone like Thor. But against THIS THOR? He has more than a fair chance of winning, in spite of what your opinion tells you, the facts say differently.

Irrelivent.. Thor vs. Glads wasn't depowered as he is here.

Who hasn't?

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Reason why I spoke against EOTS is because that some of the dumbest PIS I've seen.

Like what? In particular?

I mean I thought the writing was pretty terrible but what PIS are YOU reffering to?

Originally posted by jinzin
Like what? In particular?

I mean I thought the writing was pretty terrible but what PIS are YOU reffering to?

Not in any order
1. Wolverine threatens Rachel with a bomb 🙁 . This is the same girl who has blocked a blast that could level a city.
2. Some odd reason Wolverine could go through a legion of ninjas stabbing him in one scene and then in another one a single blade puts him down.
3. He can smacked with pieces of building from Thing to no avail but a weight from Dardevil puts him down.
4. I'm to believe he couldn't take out Electra but he could enter the FF4 headquarters and put down the thing and give Johnny storm any sort of trouble.
5. He could sneak up on Daredevil (The man that can hear heartbeats over thirty feet away)

New pic. Finally updated.
http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0455tb3.jpg

Originally posted by Big Sexy
A couple of things on both sides. That book went which ever way the wind blows.

Not in any order
1. Wolverine threatens Rachel with a bomb 🙁 . This is the same girl who has blocked a blast that could level a city.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
2. Some odd reason Wolverine could go through a legion of ninjas stabbing him in one scene and then in another one a single blade puts him down.
3. He can smacked with pieces of building from Thing to no avail but a weight from Dardevil puts him down.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
4. I'm to believe he couldn't take out Electra but he could enter the FF4 headquarters and put down the thing and give Johnny storm any sort of trouble.

She sneak attacked him after he got done recovering from being hamburger meat, she's far more agile than Thing, a better fighter, faster, and blasted Wolverine while engaged with a dozen shield agents.

Human torch actually had Wolverine's number after Thing launched that car at him. It's Wolverine's prep that saved him there, and later on his unpredictability in spearing HT head on.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
5. He could sneak up on Daredevil (The man that can hear heartbeats over thirty feet away)

Originally posted by jinzin
Fanboy? Riiiiight, because why again?
Because I didn't know that Thor survived in the sun and because I think that Wolverine can beat him in this fight with these stipulations? OF COURSE! Thinking a character can win in a fight against another severly depowered character! 😱 The OBVIOUS sign of a fanboy. 🙄
As for the change of an opinion, yeah you're right.
It's not going to happen if the debate on Thor's side doesn't evolve past the point of "he's a god" or "he's way stronger", because those simply are not good enough reasons for him to win.
I'm not being a fanboy. I've not yet stated one unreasonable thing that would put me into the category of a fanboy.. I've been stating facts.
And while I readily admit I'm no Thor expert, I don't collect his comics habitually, I DO however think I've seen enough of him from team books, crossovers, guest appearances, and two handfuls of his own books to have a decent understanding of the character... However, I also realize that it's easy to miss loads about a character with such a rich history.. Which is WHY I've been repeatedly asking for proof on behalf of the Thor supporters.. So far that proof has not been given, so there's been no reason for me to change my opinion on the battle.

Gladiator didn't have the reflexes to deal with Cannon Ball, where Wolverine has. Gladiator couldn't use his reflexes to keep from getting completely bludgened by Hulk.. Wolverine has.

Surfer, a guy with a 2 in the fighting ability department has not been fast enough to react to the carnage symbiote. He's been humilated by Spiderman, Daredevil, Black Panther. He wasn't fast enough to even react to the first half of his fight with Rhino. He's had trouble dealing with Sleepwalker (This means next to nothing, but in an alternate reality Wolverine killed him, and held off Gladiator for 6 days).

Why the comparisons? Well look no further than below.

The ideal that one character is brought up while the other is brought down to make an ideal or entertaining fight being your copout, kind of makes the whole using Silver Surfer and Gladiator as your standard for Thor's reflexes a bit... shall we say hypocritical...

Thor fighting characters doesn't really display to me any valuable proof of his speed or reflexes.. Which is why I... NEED... FEATS.... Something where his speed or reflexes can either be clearly seen or read stated upon.

😕
He's done it before.

It's a baseless claim. Wolverine has cut people and stabbed people who've proven better durability than Thor..
While he might be able to take the Sun, it's not the same as him taking a bullet or a knife or an admantium claw... Most of those other characters have better durability to a bullet than Thor as proven. I don't get what's so hard about that.
Sun's a nice feat, different durability.

PIS is totally and utterly subjective.
And that's the thing, as long as evidence exists, if you don't like it, you ignore it with a claim to PIS. I'll ask you as I've asked so many others, give me proof that discredits it. Show me where admantium blades have failed to cut Thanos.. Not energy, or black holes, or class 100 punches, but something comparible.

Maybe not, but almost all of them are able to deflect bullets with their epidermis. 😬

No one said that.

Umm yes I have, several times infact.

Yes, Thats exactly why I consider you a fanboy. Because for some odd reason, although Wolverine literally has no way of defeating Thor you still claim Wolverine wins. Good debater, yes but imo your still a fanboy.

Why do you use low showings to try and boost the case for your fav character? Gladiator has the reflexes to navigate at many multiples of the speed of light. The low showings don't matter as they aren't valid to use in debates.

Surfer was actually on his board flying, and blasting when he and Thor were fighting. Thor was able to fight him on even grounds. Again I say read up on Thor.

So when characters are depicted as blurs(Surfer) and Thor is still able to react and battle them, you don't consider those examples of good reflexes? How then do you determine Wolverines speed?

No he hasn't, at least not in his own comic. I'd like to see proof of this.

Baseless claim. Thor is more durable than every character you mentioned with the exception of Thanos. Also, Thor has never been gutted, or stabbed. He's been cut, but never to the point where he was fatally wounded. Wolverine may get one ineffective shot on Thor, but then he's making a trip to the moon.

Also the bullet never went through Thor's skin, just knocked him out. Low showing, should be thrown out but it seems you've made a habit of using lesser showings to support the case of your fav character.

No it was pis, no question about it. At least in the eyes of those who aren't Wolverine fans.

Thor too has shown capable of deflecting bullets, he's done so by simply moving his arm.

You've actually stated as much many times in this debate. "Ive asked for proof and it's not been given to me".

I haven't seen them, explain. Because I see Wolverine being knocked into orbit with a single clean shot.

Originally posted by jinzin
Thor has almost always done so, with the use of odinforce and his hammer.
In terms of BRUTE STRENGTH, which is what we're discussing, I've seen Hulk perform better feats.

Ummm no it couldn't... First off Wolverine probably wouldn't have had to heal from having his throat garroted, second, he can cut Thor, he couldn't cut Sentry. 😬

Thor's done it in a spiderman comic.

And thor fights character's that FLY at the speed of light, no one's debating his flight speed.. I need to see prove of his fighting speed.

YES, ARTISTS CAN DEPICT CHARACTER'S FIGHTING AT SUPER SPEEDS...

I've seen them do it with Speed Demon, Quick Silver, underwater Namor, and Spiderman from Marvel. I've seen it from Wonder Woman, Superman, and Flash from DC. I've seen it from basically every character ever drawn in DBZ. I've even seen speed displayed by the art in fights with PEAK HUMAN CHARACTERS like Daredevil, Batman, Storm Shadow, and Snake Eyes. Implying that I haven't seen Thor fight at super speeds because artists can't draw it is the biggest copout you could pull here.. ESPECIALLY in a comic book where the art is supplemented by a narrative that EMBELISHES the story of the art. 😬

Thor didn't have use of the Odin force when fighting Thor, and in the scans I provided Thor was engaging Hulk in a h2h fight. You assessment is useless.

Such as? Because I've seen Thor in a arm wrestling match that was knocking earth out of orbit, crushing Exitars dome twice, shaking planets with his blows, clearing out mountain ranges and cities with single blows, closing dimensional tears with his bare hands, etc.

Meh, Thor grabs hold of Wolverine's claws and forces Wolverine to stab himself or sends Wolverine into orbit.

I wanna see it.

Yes, he's battled Surfer while Surfer was flying around blasting in every which direction. Thor stood there ad countered Surfers attacks.

Throughout the whole comic? No they can't. The Artist usually just draws some streaks behind them. Very rarely if ever do you see a whole comic or fight drawn in blurs. Flash is the only character thats consistently drawn in blurs, most top tiers with Super speed aren't.