Iron Fist vs Slade

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I can see either winning.

Yeah it's a pretty good fight. Danny can be cocky and over confident, which will allow Slade some advantages he wouldn't be afforded if say someone like Daredevil had the Iron Fist. I still see Danny taking the slight majority, but it would be a good fight.

of course you do

Srank has been very open and honest about his belief that Marvel MAers (and characters in general) are just plain better in every way than DC MAers.

I think he grudgingly accepts that the best in DC beat the worst in Marvel...but again only grudgingly.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Srank has been very open and honest about his belief that Marvel MAers (and characters in general) are just plain better in every way than DC MAers.

I think he grudgingly accepts that the best in DC beat the worst in Marvel...but again only grudgingly.

What I believe is that by nature of Marvel having a much larger and more diverse street level "universe" then DC, where a larger number of character are allowed shine rather then just one, that Marvel innately have a handful of character that are operating on a higher tier then what we have seen in DC proper. I believe that in pure h2h skill more or less Batman = Daredevil, that Shang-Chi = Shiva, that Iron Fist = Richard, and that Captain America and Wolverine are above all of them, as they have been shown consistently to be. What do you believe? That Batman = Captain America? That Shiva > Captain America, and Shiva > Shang-Chi? Why. Based on what? I didn't formulate my hierarchy trying to work around the feelings of butt hurt sad sack Batman fans, I simply considered all the data and formulated and accurate and impartial order. I'm not going to compromise the truth to placate a bunch of Batman fanboys who are teary-eyed over the fact that he isn't as skilled as Captain America. At least my opinion is based off data more substantial the trite idea that"Batman and Captain America are the main street level heroes... so they must be equal!" dur

I believe Batman is the equal of Daredevil. Soooooooooooooooo unreasonable, because Daredevil is a f_cking noob, am I right? Christ, Batman fanboys. Maybe try not thinking about Batman long enough for you boners to die down so some blood can get back to your brain? But I don't know why I expect more from collective group of people who can only muster "lol Batkick!!!!" as their singular thought.

Not this BS again.

KK

Everyone else.

KK isn't part of DC proper and is as irrelevant as Batman 1Million, obviously they are the best.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What I believe is that by nature of Marvel having a much larger and more diverse street level "universe" then DC, where a larger number of character are allowed shine rather then just one, that Marvel innately have a handful of character that are operating on a higher tier then what we have seen in DC proper. I believe that in pure h2h skill more or less Batman = Daredevil, that Shang-Chi = Shiva, that Iron Fist = Richard, and that Captain America and Wolverine are above all of them, as they have been shown consistently to be. What do you believe? That Batman = Captain America? That Shiva > Captain America, and Shiva > Shang-Chi? Why. Based on what? I didn't formulate my hierarchy trying to work around the feelings of butt hurt sad sack Batman fans, I simply considered all the data and formulated and accurate and impartial order. I'm not going to compromise the truth to placate a bunch of Batman fanboys who are teary-eyed over the fact that he isn't as skilled as Captain America. At least my opinion is based off data more substantial the trite idea that"Batman and Captain America are the main street level heroes... so they must be equal!" dur

I believe Batman is the equal of Daredevil. Soooooooooooooooo unreasonable, because Daredevil is a f_cking noob, am I right? Christ, Batman fanboys. Maybe try not thinking about Batman long enough for you boners to die down so some blood can get back to your brain? But I don't know why I expect more from collective group of people who can only muster "lol Batkick!!!!" as their singular thought.

i honestly dont see how anyone can really judge whether a marvel ma is better than a dc ma based on most ma showings or vice versa. Theyre two diffirent universes.

I just go off how many forms they actually know.

Originally posted by Srankthenoob
See this is why no one can take you seriously on this site or on Comicvine. Vance Astro pretty much PROVED it to you that Daredevil and Batman are not equals and explained this to you. You stopped passing that BS off on Comicvine but chose to pass it off here instead. Daredevil was never Batman's equal. As far as Captain America goes, Iron Fist already stated that Captain America has a basic form and that he's stronger and faster then most opponents. I find it funny how you think Captain America is superior even though he's gotten his ass kicked by the likes of Wilson Fisk. The same Wilson Fisk that has never defeated Daredevil in a fair fight, the same Daredevil who you claim is Batman's equal.

lol

Vance Astro tried, unsuccessfully, to "prove" that Batman and Daredevil were not equal, but he was unable to. His incredibly well thought out, and thought provoking "Zomg Batman trained with more people!" argument, just wasn't quite enough to prove anything. 🙄

Captain America does have a basic style, but he has a basic style because that is what works. It's called efficiency and economy of movement. Iron Fist jumps around like Bruce Lee, Captain America fights like a mixed martial artist. Have you wondered why you don't see any Kung-Fu in the octagon? Because it's useless. Captain America told Iron Fist he was more skilled, he's beaten Shang-Chi, Shang-Chi said Captain America was better, so did his rogues. There isn't a whole lot of discrepancy. Captain America is more skilled than Danny or Shang-Chi.

Kingpin has beaten Daredevil. With one punch. In the dark. After eating an ambush.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
KK isn't part of DC proper and is as irrelevant as Batman 1Million, obviously they are the best.

He's apart of DC comics and that's all that matters. Same as Batman 1M and now the WS characters. Deal.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
He's apart of DC comics and that's all that matters. Same as Batman 1M and now the WS characters. Deal.

The WS characters are part of standard DC continuity now so they matter, Karate Kid and Batman 1Million are not, and don't. You might as well be talking about Else Worlds or Earth 1, characters. If I asked you who the strongest character in DC was, and you told me Allstar Superman, I would call you an idiot.

KK is just from the future and has interacted with DC proper, but that's not why I included him. It's just that he's apart of the DCU. Whether that be an alternate reality/future.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
KK is just from the future and has interacted with DC proper, but that's not why I included him. It's just that he's apart of the DCU. Whether that be an alternate reality/future.

Ultimate Fantastic Four have interacted with Marvel proper, Old Man Logan has interacted with Marvel proper. If character aren't part of standard continuity, bringing them up in conversations about standard continuity is retarded.

I never said it was apart of standard DC, just that Val falls under the DCU. And he's the KING of streets.

He is the king of MAs, not streets, and still completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Just pointing out who's the king in any universe.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
At least my opinion is based off data more substantial the trite idea that"Batman and Captain America are the main street level heroes... so they must be equal!" dur

I see no data, evidence, or anything other than opinions coming from you.

If you've got data, cough it up. I see no reason to believe Captain America is a greater martial artist than Batman. Or vice-versa.

Oh, and...

KK (Who is part of DC "proper". WTF is that shit?)
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Everyone else

Srank and Philo were supposed to do a Batman/Wolvie (Or Cap) battle, but it never fell through.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The WS characters are part of standard DC continuity now so they matter, Karate Kid and Batman 1Million are not, and don't. You might as well be talking about Else Worlds or Earth 1, characters. If I asked you who the strongest character in DC was, and you told me Allstar Superman, I would call you an idiot.

Legion of Super Heroes history keeps changing, but it's usually considered a little more relevant than an Elseworlds.

The Fatal Five being an example of their general acceptance on just about any board.

Originally posted by Cogito
I see no data, evidence, or anything other than opinions coming from you.

If you've got data, cough it up. I see no reason to believe Captain America is a greater martial artist than Batman. Or vice-versa.

Oh, and...

KK (Who is part of DC "proper". WTF is that shit?)
...

...

...

Everyone else

My reasoning on this subject is well documented on KMC. I'm sure a quick search would award you with many long posts analyzing the skill hierarchies in Marvel and DC and where they intersect.

Captain America is considered by his Marvel peers (and himself, but you can decide how much weight you put on Steve saying he is the greatest fighter who ever lived) to be one of the, if not the, forerunners for the coveted top spot on the "most skilled street" list. Batman is not a contender for the top DC spot and frankly he is lucky to crack the top five. There is evidence, anecdotal and otherwise, that Captain America is more skilled then Iron Fist and Shang-Chi. You might not agree with that evidence, and that is certainly your prerogative, but it exists. Is there any evidence that Batman is more skilled than Dragon, Bronze Tiger or Shiva? No, and not only is there no evidence that he is more skilled, but there are several narrative statements from Batman's friends / colleges that those characters (and several others) are more skilled then Bruce. Both of these universe have established - if flimsily so - skill hierarchies, we know where Captain America's peers place him, and we know where Batman's peers place him. On a top 10 list Captain America is vying for the top spot, while Batman is hovering around the middle. Captain America is just a bigger fish in a bigger pond.

If we decided arbitrarily that Batman = Captain America, then because of the established hierarchy that also concludes that Batman > Shang-Chi, Batman > Iron Fist, and Bronze Tiger >> Shang-Chi, and Dragon >> Iron Fist, which is absurd. Chi-amp aside, Shang-Chi, and Danny are all more or less analogous of Richard Dragon, and Bronze Tiger. Captain America is established in his universe as being more skilled then his uber kung-fu fighters, Batman is established as being less skilled then his. Of course, we aren't talking about an insurmountable skill gab here, all the characters on a top ten list of Martial Artists are within spiting distance of one another. Batman could still conceivably take Dragon or Tiger for close to the majority in a fight, but there is still a measurable - however slight it may be - difference between him and his peers. Batman and Daredevil are an intersection point on Marvel / DC skill comparison chart, Captain America is more skilled then either of them.

KK is not part of DC proper. He is an alternate history character that exists in a continuity separate from normal DC U. It has been said that it is the "true future" but there is like four different Legion continuities so I doubt that.