Kreia runs the gauntlet!

Started by Korto Vos9 pages

Well I'd say Dooku > Malak...

....but Star Forge/Jedi-fueled Malak > Dooku.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Well I'd say Dooku > Malak...

....but Star Forge/Jedi-fueled Malak > Dooku.

That's kinda what I'm leaning towards.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
That's kinda what I'm leaning towards.

So, after all the discussion on this thread, where do you say Kreia falls?

Definitely Vader. Perhaps a credible case could be made for Dooku or Malak, but definitely Vader. In addition to possessing a raw strength in the Force well beyond what she can deal with, he also possesses the means by which to negate the potential advantages afforded by her drain.

There are others, such as Dooku and perhaps Malak, who I'd say possess skills above hers as well.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Definitely Vader. Perhaps a credible case could be made for Dooku or Malak, but definitely Vader. In addition to possessing a raw strength in the Force well beyond what she can deal with, he also possesses the means by which to negate the potential advantages afforded by her drain.

There are others, such as Dooku and perhaps Malak, who I'd say possess skills above hers as well.

The drain wouldn't work on Grievous and the 3 Magna-Guards, right?

Because I say she could die against them.

Good point, but she still has a powerful command of the Force.

Well, the 3 Magna-Guards would be keep her triple lightsabers at bay.

But Grievous might evade her Force attacks and finish her.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Definitely Vader. Perhaps a credible case could be made for Dooku or Malak, but definitely Vader. In addition to possessing a raw strength in the Force well beyond what she can deal with, he also possesses the means by which to negate the potential advantages afforded by her drain.

There are others, such as Dooku and perhaps Malak, who I'd say possess skills above hers as well.


👆

Also, I think it's highly probable that Dooku's mastery and knowledge of the Force will allow him to negate any advantage that Kreia might possess over him (drain). Force-wise he is definitely top-tier.

Admittedly I am not sure how Kreia will perform in the midst of combat, still I think most would agree that Dooku would trash her in saber-to-saber.

Oh yeah, I can totally see Grievous and three Magna-guards getting the jump on Kreia.

No wait, I can't. She can just TK them in a wave, send them flying about like garden gnomes caught in a hurricane, and then choose to either lightning them or send in her sabers to keep them occupied while she lightnings them.

Grievous excels against Jedi mainly because they seldom use the Force to conclusively end battles, preferring disarming and capturing foes or disabling them. Sith do not care. Fry em, shove em, crush the semi-exposed heart with a TK grip. Whatever. Grievous and his minions have ZERO Force defense.

axel_jovan
👆

Also, I think it's highly probable that Dooku's mastery and knowledge of the Force will allow him to negate any advantage that Kreia might possess over him (drain). Force-wise he is definitely top-tier.

His skills as a swordsman and general abilities with the Force certainly seem to be beyond hers, yes.

axel_jovan
Admittedly I am not sure how Kreia will perform in the midst of combat, still I think most would agree that Dooku would trash her in saber-to-saber.

Kreia's drain is not instantaneous, as depicted in the cutscene. It is entirely possible that the good Count, a highly refined telekinetic and potent master of Force lightning, could interrupt the attack before it's complete.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Kreia's drain is not instantaneous, as depicted in the cutscene. It is entirely possible that the good Count, a highly refined telekinetic and potent master of Force lightning, could interrupt the attack before it's complete.

Where did you prove it's not instantaneous, using KotOR II or its own supplementary materials as proof?

Furthermore, as per Kreias description, the technique first severs then drains the target, so I don't think Dooku will be able to interrupt anything unless he chucks a rock at her.

SM
Where did you prove it's not instantaneous, using KotOR II or its own supplementary materials as proof?
Me
Kreia's drain is not instantaneous, as depicted in the cutscene.

As depicted here, around the 4:50 mark. Kreia's attack lasts a full four seconds, which I'd argue is plenty of time for a Force user of Dooku's caliber to respond.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
As depicted here, around the 4:50 mark. Kreia's attack lasts a full four seconds, which I'd argue is plenty of time for a Force user of Dooku's caliber to respond.

Do you not see the three Jedi Masters writhing in pain, unable to respond? The effects are seemingly instantaneous, given that the "beam" or "wave" strikes them instantly, and they become basically helpless until they die.

To add to Kreia's prowess, before she enters, two Jedi masters apply Force stun to the Exile (you see it first freeze her in one spot, and the second freezes her entirely). She instantly overcomes it, then TK's them into a wall.

SM
Do you not see the three Jedi Masters writhing in pain, unable to respond?

Between the Council's dialogue with the Exile and Kreia's words to the Council themselves, we can deduce that this attack was something that they've never had any sort of personal experience with before. That they were helpless and unprepared for such an attack would be an adequate reason for their lack of response, would it not? Vader, however, is intimately familiar with this sort of Force drain and has an obscenely high pain threshold steeped in canon sources. Why should he suffer the same fate as three random nobodies?

SM
The effects are seemingly instantaneous, given that the "beam" or "wave" strikes them instantly, and they become basically helpless until they die.

The effects, by definition, aren't instantaneous otherwise it would last one second instead of four. That's ample time for someone of Vader's caliber to mete out the appropriate response.