Originally posted by Silent Masterwhy do you think no-one would survive their training.
Taking normal people on their missions might get the few that survive some good exp, but then it'll be Frank/Wolverine's 3 soldiers vs Cap's 50.BTW, setting traps, ambusing and using snipers aren't dirty tactics in regards to warfare, it's SOP.
Originally posted by Newjak
Yeah and anyone of those millions ways you could safely get there, bump your tow slip and fall.So you can end up at your destination in a number of ways. And where did I say this is about holding territory or resources. This is a battle and everything I said is still relative to that discussion.
Falling down the stars would indicate a lack of focus / dedication in my stair walking training. Cap's students will be "falling down the stairs" more than the rest because they won't be as well trained for this particular task.
You haven't, but its the only way to rectify what you are saying with the actual scenario laid out in this thread. None of the advantages you have attributed Captain America with will com into play here. The contest is simple and unless it branches out into the things I mentioned, Cap's superior strategic mind is completely inconsequential. I have several times outlined what the relevant tactics and strategies for this time of combat scenario are, and you haven't offered a single rebuttal other than to say "Captain America is the best." Purpose a single tactic that would trump what I have outlined. The soldiers most suited for this type of combat will win, and the reality is that several of Caps competitors are better trainers and better stealth / guerrilla style combatants.
Originally posted by Silent Master
You don't have to scar people for life in order to push their limits.
But you do need to push someone to their limits... which isn't something Cap will.
Punisher will break you down into nothing so he can rebuild you stronger. He will run you to the very edge and you'll need to improve because if you don't you will die. There will be no coddling because there is no coddling in war. Frank will groom men capable of anything, and they will go into war with a smile on their face because they know it will be a vacation compare to what they've already endured.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
But you do need to push someone to their limits... which isn't something Cap will.Punisher will break you down into nothing so he can rebuild you stronger. He will run you to the very edge and you'll need to improve or die. There will be no coddling because there is no coddling in war. Frank will groom men capable of anything, and they will go into war with a smile on their face because they know it will be a vacation compare to what they've already endured.
Why wouldn't Cap push them to their limits?
Originally posted by srankmissingninYOu assume Cap's are gonna be lesser skilled.
Falling down the stars would indicate a lack of focus / dedication in my stair walking training. Cap's students will be "falling down the stairs" more than the rest because they won't be as well trained for this particular task.You haven't, but its the only way to rectify what you are saying with the actual scenario laid out in this thread. None of the advantages you have attributed Captain America with will com into play here. The contest is simple and unless it branches out into the things I mentioned, Cap's superior strategic mind is completely inconsequential. I have several times outlined what the relevant tactics and strategies for this time of combat scenario are, and you haven't offered a single rebuttal other than to say "Captain America is the best." Purpose a single tactic that would trump what I have outlined. The soldiers most suited for this type of combat will win, and the reality is that several of Caps competitors are better trainers and better stealth / guerrilla style combatants.
You really can't understand how having a good strategic mind, and ability to adapt helps you on the battlefield?
Originally posted by Silent Master
Why wouldn't Cap push them to their limits?
Because he isn't hard enough. Normal people quite when things get hard, when they get tired they will stop and whine and complain and say "I need to go the bathroom" or "I'm going to throw up." or "I need water / food," and Cap won't be in their face screaming at them to keep going, to give 110% percent. If you gave Cap a group of already motivated Marines / SEALs and he trained them, that would be a different story, but he has 50 average guys here... people that resolve to lose 10 pounds every New Year and stop their work out routine a week later.
Originally posted by Newjakbeing strategic is all well and good. Does nothing if you don't have the quality of troops needed to accomplish the mission. Cap's troops will be less skilled. There is a reason why spec ops training is dehumanizing and brutal. Breaking down recruits is standard operating procedure. Frank will do it a hell of a lot easier than Cap would.
YOu assume Cap's are gonna be lesser skilled.You really can't understand how having a good strategic mind, and ability to adapt helps you on the battlefield?
Originally posted by srankmissingninDo you honestly think Cap won't push his men to be their best?
Because he isn't hard enough. Normal people quite when things get hard, when they get tired they will stop and whine and complain and say "I need to go the bathroom" or "I'm going to throw up." or "I need water / food," and Cap won't be in their face screaming at them to keep going, to give 110% percent. If you gave Cap a group of already motivated Marines / SEALs and he trained them, that would be a different story, but he has 50 average guys here... people that resolve to lose 10 pounds every New Year and stop their work out routine a week later.
Guess what he will know why because Steve knows that anything less and you're going to die and Steve cares too much to let that happen. So Cap will push them as hard as anyone else will.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Because he isn't hard enough. Normal people quite when things get hard, when they get tired they will stop and whine and complain and say "I need to go the bathroom" or "I'm going to throw up." or "I need water / food," and Cap won't be in their face screaming at them to keep going, to give 110% percent. If you gave Cap a group of already motivated Marines / SEALs and he trained them, that would be a different story, but he has 50 average guys here... people that resolve to lose 10 pounds every New Year and stop their work out routine a week later.
Now try answering my question, why wouldn't Cap puch them to their limits?
Originally posted by Newjak
YOu assume Cap's are gonna be lesser skilled.You really can't understand how having a good strategic mind, and ability to adapt helps you on the battlefield?
I know his team is going to be less skilled because Captain America is a less experience teacher, and is himself less adept at the skills his students need to implement in order to win this scenario.
Again: It would help him if he was maneuvering troops to take territory, resources, none which is germane to this discussion. What's he going to adapt to? His men getting stealth killed? What's he going to say? Be stealthier and stop getting killed? Or run away? Wow... thanks Cap! What sort of strategic assistance is Captain America going to offer his troops? This type of combat is fought in a specific way and his opponents are better and more experienced at it than he is.
Originally posted by Uriel005
It's all hypotheticals and i don't think we're going to convince them otherwise./thread
Apparently.
Captain America is too nice. He'll want his troops to give their best, but he won't force, and if you ask him for a break he is going to give you one. Steve doesn't have what it takes to be a drill instructor, it's out of character. The other teams will be pushed harder than his, and have more to show for it by the end of the two years.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Apparently.Captain America is too nice. He'll want his troops to give their best, but he won't force, and if you ask him for a break he is going to give you won. Steve doesn't have what it takes to be a drill instructor, it's out of character. The other teams will be pushed harder than his, and have more to show for it by the end of the two years.
Cap caring about his troops is what will make him push them to their limits.
Originally posted by Silent Master
No, you didn't...all you said was that they'd be lazy, which is also true of the people Wolverine and Punisher are training.
Captain America will facility their laziness, Wolverine and Punisher won't because they are in your face hardasses that will force their men to go until the exercise is finished or they pass out from sheer exhaustion.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Cap caring about his troops is what will make him push them to their limits.
That's a beautiful fairy tale. Unfortunately it's out of character for Cap. The meanest thing he has ever done is make Hawkeye briefly train without a bow.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Captain America will facility their laziness, Wolverine and Punisher won't because they are in your face hardasses that will force their men to go until the exercise is finished or they pass out from sheer exhaustion.That's a beautiful fairy tale. Unfortunately it's out of character for Cap. The meanest thing he has ever done is make Hawkeye briefly train without a bow.
What color is the sky in your world?
Originally posted by Silent Master
What color is the sky in your world?
Blue, I'm assuming it's - what - red in what ever ass backwards dimension you were squeezed out in?
There is a reason drill instructors and fitness trainers are all assholes, shouting about how 13 year old girls and their grandma can do the training better / longer / more efficiently than you can... because that is what works, that is what people respond to. Cap won't ride a person's ass screaming in their face that they are soft and insinuating they are gay if they can't do one more set, until they collapse form utter exhaustion. That just isn't who he is.