Originally posted by Silent Master
Speaking as someone that has actually gone through basic(including having a Navy Seal as a DI), your statement is wrong.
And here you are now, molded into an unstoppable war-machine... on the internet debating the finer points of which comic book characters are the toughest 24 hours a day. Mission accomplished? Did your DI get a medal after he created such a beast?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And here you are now, molded into an unstoppable war-machine... on the internet debating the finer points of which comic book characters are the toughest 24 hours a day. Mission accomplished? Did your DI get a medal after he created such a beast?
Are you going to cry now?
Originally posted by srankmissingninThat's a poor argument. Just because he is on here does not mean he didn't complete Navy Seal training nor does it make your points any less or more valid.
And here you are now, molded into an unstoppable war-machine... on the internet debating the finer points of which comic book characters are the toughest 24 hours a day. Mission accomplished? Did you DI get a medal after he created such a beast?
The fact is Steve knows what it takes to Survive in a fight and you're idea he is somehow going to prepare his men less than anyone else for that purpose is asinine.
Steve will push them because he knows if he doesn't they die, Steve isn't the kind of guy who will let that happen. He is not going to send a man into battle unless he knows for sure they can handle it to level they need to.
Originally posted by Newjak
That's a poor argument. Just because he is on here does not mean he didn't complete Navy Seal training nor does it make your points any less or more valid.The fact is Steve knows what it takes to Survive in a fight and you're idea he is somehow going to prepare his men less than anyone else for that purpose is asinine.
Steve will push them because he knows if he doesn't they die, Steve isn't the kind of guy who will let that happen. He is not going to send a man into battle unless he knows for sure they can handle it to level they need to.
I didn't go through Seal training, one of my regular boot camp DIs was a Seal.
srank has just seen Full Metal Jacket one to many times.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Are you going to cry now?
No, I didn't laugh hard enough at your post to start crying. Close though.
But your comparison is actually apt. Captain America will train his men with kid gloves like your basic training DI did, and Punisher will train his men like Navy SEALs, a training program that has a 80 washout rate...
Originally posted by Newjak
The fact is Steve knows what it takes to Survive in a fight and you're idea he is somehow going to prepare his men less than anyone else for that purpose is asinine.Steve will push them because he knows if he doesn't they die, Steve isn't the kind of guy who will let that happen. He is not going to send a man into battle unless he knows for sure they can handle it to level they need to.
The difference between basic Army Infantry and Marines and Navy SEALS. They are all combat ready troops ready to serve... but they aren't remotely equal. Steve will push his men as far as they need to go to survive, Punisher will push them as far as they will go before the training actually kills them.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No, I didn't laugh hard enough at your post to start crying. Close though.But your comparison is actually apt. Captain America will train his men with kid gloves like your basic training DI did, and Punisher will train his men like Navy SEALs, a training program that has a 80 washout rate...
I didn't get trained with "kid gloves", you don't have to be an ahole to motivate people.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Relative to BUD/S and SQT you were trained with kid gloves.
"Average and decidedly unremarkable human beings" aren't going to make it through BUD/S.
Given enough time guys like Frank and Wolverine can get their guys to a level where they might survive that training, but then again, so could Cap.
Originally posted by srankmissingninNo he will push them to survive what he knows what they be up against. He knows his foes he knows what kind of people they are gonna train. Steve will in turn train his men to that level and better because Cap isn't just about making people good enough he wants them succeed and be the best they can be.
The difference between basic Army Infantry and Marines and Navy SEALS. They are all combat ready troops ready to serve... but they aren't remotely equal. Steve will push his men as far as they need to go to survive, Punisher will push them as far as they will go before the training actually kills them.
Originally posted by Silent Master
"Average and decidedly unremarkable human beings" aren't going to make it through BUD/S.Given enough time guys like Frank and Wolverine can get their guys to a level where they might survive that training, but then again, so could Cap.
They don't have anywhere to go though, there isn't a drop out option. Punisher isn't going to let them go home if they aren't up to snuff, he'll keep pushing them until the are... or they die trying. In essence they will make in through the program or they will die in the process (which will almost certainly happen). Cap isn't going to push his men like that. Cap will have 50 will trained troops by the end. Punisher, will have 20 -30 extremely well trained troops.
Originally posted by Newjak
No he will push them to survive what he knows what they be up against. He knows his foes he knows what kind of people they are gonna train. Steve will in turn train his men to that level and better because Cap isn't just about making people good enough he wants them succeed and be the best they can be.
It not that capt wont push them, but he has his limits. He wont risk there lives in the proccess of training them. Punisher and Wolverine to a lesser extent will. That makes a huge difference.
also think you dont grasp the difference between a good leader and a good trainer. Just because your the best at one does not make you good in the other. There two different skills.
Originally posted by Newjak
No he will push them to survive what he knows what they be up against. He knows his foes he knows what kind of people they are gonna train. Steve will in turn train his men to that level and better because Cap isn't just about making people good enough he wants them succeed and be the best they can be.
Nothing we've seen from his on panel training nor his personality suggest that Captain America will be able or willing to sacrifice his values and ideals in order to do what is necessary for him to create soldiers on par with Punisher / Wolverine. It's not who Steve is. He is the sterling sentinel of liberty, he was paired with Bucky for more or less these very reason. There are things that Captain America won't do. Lines he wont cross. Maybe he can delegate the physical training to USAgent and focus on theory and other skills, but Captain America doesn't have what it takes to be the type of DI that will turn men into the absolute pinnacle of their potential. Captain America won't risk the lives of the people he is training in order to make better soldiers. Simple as that.
Even highly trained soldiers have trouble making it through BUD/S either they can't take the pressure or they get injured.
Dropping "Average and decidedly unremarkable human beings" direrctly into such training is just going to get them injured or mentally broken to the point where they can't continue the training. congrats, Wolverine and the Punisher won't have a team to field.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Even highly trained soldiers have trouble making it through BUD/S either they can't take the pressure or they get injured.Dropping "Average and decidedly unremarkable human beings" direrctly into such training is just going to get them injured or mentally broken to the point where they can't continue the training. congrats, Wolverine and the Punisher won't have a team to field.
They have two years to get the job done, the won't drop them into BUD/S right of the back, they will ramp up to it. Two years, no weekends off or vacation time, just constant training is a long ass time.