Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
I'm saying I don't believe Gandalf can simply break Voldemort's wand nor do I believe Voldemort is going to simply stand and allow Gandalf to blind him, disarm him, and kill him. Or is Voldemort unconscious when the fight begins? 😂
Yeah, he won't. He'll do his trademark spell, and while doing so, has his wand broken/burned.
Originally posted by Korto VosThat's gandalf the Grey.
1. You're arguing who is more bad@ss now?LOL!
2. Sure, he could. But he won't.
Basically, I'm accepting this as a concession. You have no argument other than "Voldemort's feats are more eye-candy than Gandalf's." Consider the Istari's abilities in the context of this battle and the White Wizard prevails.
Here's Gandalf the White.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7egAVqmH4Q&feature=related
LOL, indeed. Look how badass he is when he falls onto the ground.
Voldemort's power far eclipses that of the Witch King who broke his staff.
No, you conceded when you presumed he could break Voldemort's wand just because he broke Saruman's. He also allows saruman to attack first before he does so. You are powerset arguing which you tend to do while being desperate.
Consider Voldemort's abilities, power, and his quick reflexes and this isn't close. Gandalf dies a quick death.
KV
Yeah, he won't. He'll do his trademark spell, and while doing so, has his wand broken/burned.
Interesting that you argue Voldemort will do 'X' and 'Y' because they're "trademarks" yet in the same post argue that Gandalf will automatically move to burn/break Voldemort's wand... even though the White Wizard is much more of a melee fighter than a spellcaster during his many, many battles.
I'mma gonna call bullshit and submit that Gandalf won't do any of that and will instead go for the kill with staff and sword and die.
/thread uhuh
Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Interesting that you argue Voldemort will do 'X' and 'Y' because they're "trademarks" yet in the same post argue that Gandalf will automatically move to burn/break Voldemort's wand... even though the White Wizard is much more of a melee fighter than a spellcaster during his many, many battles.I'mma gonna call bullshit and submit that Gandalf won't do any of that and will instead go for the kill with staff and sword and die.
/thread uhuh
Like against the Balrog, Gandalf will fight without any Valar limitations. Meaning it's actually logical for me to take the best showing of Gandalf the White to shape my argument.
And besides, have your forgotten his Shield?
KV
Like against the Balrog, Gandalf will fight without any Valar limitations. Meaning it's actually logical for me to take the best showing of Gandalf the White to shape my argument.
No.
You're hinging the outcome of this fight based on a precise sequence of actions and decisions made by Voldemort. Voldemort will do 'X' and then 'Y', "because it is his trademark" while making the simultaneous argument that Gandalf will begin with moves that are not typical of him. The White Wizard is typically conservative with magic in his fights and only uses them against foes that he knows are especially dangerous.
No such condition was placed in this thread. This is a glaring double standards and I demandrespectfully ask that you take this into consideration. If Voldemort begins with his "typical" Killing Curse, Gandalf begins with his "typical" sword.
KV
And besides, have your forgotten his Shield?
Voldemort is more than capable of destroying Gandalf's shield.
Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
No.
You're hinging the outcome of this fight based on a precise sequence of actions and decisions made by Voldemort. Voldemort will do 'X' and then 'Y', "because it is his trademark" while making the simultaneous argument that Gandalf will begin with moves that are not typical of him. The White Wizard is typically conservative with magic in his fights and only uses them against foes that he knows are especially dangerous.
For the sake of this thread, Gandalf KNOWS Voldemort isn't a LV. 5 Uruk-Hai. The lack of this awareness would limit Gandalf's ability, but not necessarily Voldemort's. Even if Voldemort knows Gandalf is dangerous, he WILL cast Avada Kedavra (even more reason).
As a result, Gandalf will perform at his highest level. And since the 'typical' whims of this highest level are only one or two feats, I have to shape my argument based on those alone.
No such condition was placed in this thread. This is a glaring double standards and Idemandrespectfully ask that you take this into consideration. If Voldemort begins with his "typical" Killing Curse, Gandalf begins with his "typical" sword.Voldemort is more than capable of destroying Gandalf's shield.
Actually, no, if you think about it, it isn't a double standard whatsoever.
Originally posted by Korto VosIt is a double standard as I have tried telling you in multiple posts from practically the first page. You are arguing for Gandalf but are selecting his attacks which aren't consistent with what he normally does in character in the mountain of battle scenes he is in throughout the trilogy. Voldemort you are using what's in character for him but not the same with Gandalf ie. selecting which attacks he uses and when.
For the sake of this thread, Gandalf KNOWS Voldemort isn't a LV. 5 Uruk-Hai. The lack of this awareness would limit Gandalf's ability, but not necessarily Voldemort's. Even if Voldemort knows Gandalf is dangerous, he WILL cast Avada Kedavra (even more reason).As a result, Gandalf will perform at his highest level. And since the 'typical' whims of this highest level are only one or two feats, I have to shape my argument based on those alone.
Actually, no, if you think about it, it isn't a double standard whatsoever.
You are in a sense powerset arguing which means you are arguing based off of his feats/abilities and telling us how you'd win against Voldemort who still has to fight in character. You can't have it both ways. That's the point. If you want the powerset argument then Voldemort will be apparating all over the place while letting loose giant creatures of flame then tossing out Avada Kedavra's left and right.
KV
For the sake of this thread, Gandalf KNOWS Voldemort isn't a LV. 5 Uruk-Hai. The lack of this aware would limit Gandalf's ability, but not necessarily Voldemort's. Even if Voldemort knows Gandalf is dangerous, he WILL cast Avada Kedavra (even more reason).
I must reluctantly declare, once again, bullshit.
First, it is imperative that you understand that you are not the thread-maker and so do not have the authority to impose conditions, particularly when they obviously favor the character you favor.
Second, it is equally imperative that you understand the dangerous logic to which you subscribe: Arguing what a character will do {as regards specific actions} is problematic and for just this reason-- it could backfire spectacularly.
KV
Actually, no, if you think about it, it isn't a double standard whatsoever.
It is.
Your interpretation is that Voldemort will literally stand there like a dunce and allow Gandalf to attack him with techniques reserved for very few of the White Wizard's enemies, which is illogical given Voldemort's priorities {himself, himself, himself, himself, himself} and wide range of magical abilities which would circumvent, delay, or mitigate such attacks.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Gandalfs Shield can block the unblockable spell now? 😬
Gandalf's shield resisted a magical fire-sword from the Balrog.
The death spell can be blocked by wood doors and gravestones.
Are you telling me that wood doors and gravestones would have resisted a blow from the Balrog? No. Gandalf could also opt to block with his staff and/or sword.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Dude, what are you talking about? In your earlier post, you just stated "I'll have to agree that wizard's shields are much more powerful than the one Gandalf used against the Balrog."How can you quantify that a single wizard's shield is automatically more powerful than one in the Lord of the Rings? That's why I challenged your assertion.
How am I ignoring movie feats from a side I do not support when I've been arguing against the Voldemort-breaking-the-barrier with Quanchi for ages now?
So, basically, you have nothing to properly reply with?
All of you questions were already addressed in my previous post.
You won't get away with circular discussions with me. 😉
Additionally, you said "single wizard's shield".
You've actually COMPLETELY missed the point entirely. That's not the question you should be asking if you actually understood what my points were (after reading through, you know what the point was, but for some reason, you pretend to not know here).
If you're interested, ask me what the point was. If you're more interested in posturing and strawman arguments, don't bother asking me.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Explain to me the physics then. The force of the sword was equally matched by an opposite force by Gandalf's shield, correct? Newton's Third? Or bring in Conservation of Momentum if you like.
1. This is obviously an attempt on your part to not only deflect from the events that occurred, but to try and sound smart.
2. Yes, the third law. Admit it: you looked it up. 🙂 If you admit that, then I have an equally awesome admission, too. 😄
3. Some of the impact was clearly absorbed by Gandalf as he stumbled under the blow. Some of the force was absorbed by the shield because it had some sort of anti-fire incantation going on with it (read the subtitles or listen to the incantation: he has some anti-fire magic mixed in). Still, not all of the force was transferred to Gandalf and/or his shield because the swing had "follow through" as the sword dissolved. This explains why the bridge didn't collapse under the force of the swing (which it should have, even if made from granite).
Originally posted by Korto Vos
1. It's a shield...if you have one next to you and start beating it down with an ax, it's going to get damaged. You yourself acknowledged it was subject to a "massive bombardment."When Voldemort destroyed it, it was nowhere near as powerful as it was pre-battle.
Again, lies.
I showed the video.
It was hardly damaged, at all.
A massive bombardment can be as massive as it wants against a magical shield: fact remains that there was barely any damage and they were getting NO where against the shield.
Again, I have caught you going out of your way to lie about the events on the side you do not support. It's as though you think the "other side" is as dumb as a 6 year old. Why would you even think that would fly without some sort of legitimate protest?
Back on topic: if you shoot a steel shield with a lead BBs, you MIGHT eventually get through if you have enough BBs and time...and you're probably doing some damage...but it is insignificant. That's the proper comparison that should be made before Voldemort came into the picture.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
2. Yes, it was a Shield Penetration spell:
SpellAnd if Voldemort didn't have the Elder Wand opposing him, the shield would have been easier to break.
Spoiler:
It was a nice try on your part, however, to try and come off as knowledgeable about the other side. It won’t fool me, but it would probably fool others.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Stay classy. You had mild sarcasm in your first post; I responded with some of my own. If that offended you, I apologize. However, I never went out to calling your points lacking strength, exhibiting "blind fanboyism," or stating they promote weaker discussion.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
All you can see within the two seconds is Gandalf's shield shattering the Balrog's aflame sword into molten fragments and the Balrog recoiling. There was no "follow through." The Balrog's blow landed full impact on the shield, but the barrier's strength, which led to the blade's obliteration, caused the arm holding the breaking hilt to slip downwards and leading to the Balrog stepping back.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
1 & 2. Okay, I see a powerful bombardment. And c'mon, let us not exaggerate- nuclear bombs?
I stated that because I did not want the HP supporters to take my words and run with it like it was a new discovery. That has happened in the past.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Clearly, if I just wanted to lie, I could just make up some BS like "Gandalf calls Gwaihir to come down and eat Voldemort."
Originally posted by Korto Vos
I think my eyes suck. But what I saw was Ron and Hermione destroying the Horcrux, and then Voldemort firing his spell-breaking incantation without even showing the barrier. You only see it afterwards when it's falling apart.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
And secondly, he only concentrates his spell on one region of the shield. And yet, everything else falls apart as well, indicating how unstable and weakened the protective bubble was. It's like piercing through layers. The Death Eaters broke through a significant portion, and Voldemort, in his extreme anger at losing the Horcrux (which can't always be replicated), finished it off.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
No, you should read my arguments again. Gandalf needs only to counter the initial Avada Kedavra, if the spell manages to stay on target against the Blinding Light, with his Shield, because in theory, he can be able to burn/shatter Voldemort's wand within several seconds.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
I don't get what you were trying to accomplish with your Balrog rant.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Haven't denied anything, mate!
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Okay, perhaps I wasn't clear. Obviously the Protego Maxima + Fianto Duri + Repello Inimigotum from several accomplished wizards/witches > Gandalf's one shield.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
But you said that wizarding shields in general were superior to Gandalf's Istari Shield, and I was confused as to how you made that conclusion.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Don't you think it's rather rude of you to call me an anti-fanboy and being like RJ? I only acted that way because Turr and I were just joshing with each other.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
I am terribly confused by what you said afterwards. My whole point was that while the movies never have Gandalf saying, "I am a Maiar," they make it rather obvious that he is some divine above-man figure. I am not claiming he has X powers...
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Actually, my whole basis for his victory is his:* Blinding Light
Proven to be fail. I was the sun. In the novel, it was his staff.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
* Istari Shield
Originally posted by Korto Vos
* Pyrokinesis
Originally posted by Korto Vos
* Blast (Object Obliteration) .
Originally posted by Korto Vos
In TTT, against Aragorn and company's ambush, he demonstrates he can uses these abilities successfully in few seconds, without any exertion.
In fact, the wizards never show “magical exhaustion”. Only physical exhaustion from running around and swinging their arms like idiots.
Originally posted by Robtard
Gandalf's shield resisted a magical fire-sword from the Balrog.The death spell can be blocked by wood doors and gravestones.
Are you telling me that wood doors and gravestones would have resisted a blow from the Balrog? No. Gandalf could also opt to block with his staff and/or sword.
Your post needs corrections for accuracy:
Gandalf's shield was mutually destroyed with a magical fire-sword from the Balrog when the Balrog struck it.
The death spell can be blocked by wood doors and gravestones but it causes damage as though it were shot by bullets.
Are you telling me that wood doors and gravestones would have resisted a blow from the Balrog? No. Gandalf could also opt to block with his staff and/or sword because wizards in HP are clearly seen using their magical wands to block/null magical spells cast at each other.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, that completely what I'm saying. 😐Avada Kedavra is unblockable by magic. Gandalfs shield is made of magic. Therefore it cannot block it. QED.
Actually, it can be blocked by magic and what's more important, Gandalf's magic > Harry Potter magic. So your premise is flawed.
Originally posted by Robtard
Actually, it can be blocked by magic and what's more important, Gandalf's magic > Harry Potter magic. So your premise is flawed.
You're almost correct.
It needs to be corrected to this:
"Actually, it can be blocked by magic and what's more important, Gandalf's magic <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Harry Potter magic. So your premise is flawed but makes no major errors."