Originally posted by dadudemon
Red She-Hulk, too?WEEEE!!?!?!?!
RED IS NOT A SEXY COLOR!
Originally posted by Korto VosIt has never done any such thing. Voldemort also doesn't blindly miss or misfire either. So you're just making wild assumptions at this point and nothing else since you have no proof. I don't see any proof either of him being able to do so since he can logically only do so against inferior/less powerful opponents. I also don't see his shield tanking the avada kedavra. There's no proofo of that either.
Umm....read my interpretation again. I said that the Blinding Light, at full force from that close range, would completely blind/stun/incapacitate Voldemort and of course cause him to wildly misfire his spell. And yet, when I described the fight, I gave Voldemort the benefit of the doubt and had his spell on target; Gandalf doesn't bother dissipating the spell. His Shield will tank it and during the spell stream, the wizard's wand will be spontaneously burned or broken.You clearly haven't beaten me at my own game since I have already taken into consideration [B]many pages ago
these factors. You just weren't paying attention or blatantly ignoring them. [/B]
You are exaggerating Gandalf's powers I mean the guy with the aid of an entire group took down a cave troll. Voldemort would simply one shot the pesky stupid troll. This really isn't close in terms of power/character ruthlessness or reflexes.
Ohhhh I am so excited. I hope you don't turn out to be a tease like ron.
You're about to get schooled: [/B]
The hell ? Fiendfyre is made up of magical fire and Dumbledore clearly defeated the snake and sent back the fire which comprised the snake right back at Voldemort. Fiendfyre is made up of fire.
1. Quit downplaying feats. Dumbledore doesn't send back Fiendfyre; he throws back a wave of fire at Voldemort. [/B]
Ok, so he exerts himself to stop a magical fire from touching him....and your point is ? Gandalf exerts himself with groans and sighs while he swings his cane into Uruk-Haii and orcs.
Watch this again:Dumbledore sends back the flames just before 1:16. And Voldemort dissipates it from 1:17 to 1:18, and you hear his clear exertion from the sound he makes at 1:18.
[/B]
So you agree Voldemort is quicker to react because he clearly negated it from touching him unlike Gandalf. Ok. Progress.
Let's review:Voldemort dissipated a wave of fire that traveled several yards away in 1.5-2 seconds. This required exertion on his part.
Meanwhile:
Saruman fires his fireball at 2:56 and it hits Gandalf before 2:58. Meaning it took just as much time as Dumbledore's redirection. [/B]
Gandalf activated his shield because he had a whole two seconds before it hit him. The distance it traveled was also further away and he weathered a fireball. Big deal. Voldemort shows the fire can't even touch him unlike Gandalf.
You know what the funny thing is? That fireball traveled down 500 feet in less than two seconds. It was moving faster than 76 m/s or 250 ft/s! Gandalf displayed bewilderingly fast reflexes AND his Shield easily tanked it without any effort from Gandalf's part. Finally, Dumbledore's redirection was just a wave of flames. Saruman sent a concentrated fireball blast against Gandalf. [/B]
Gandalf had a lot of distance between himself and the fireball and had more than enough time to react. It's a fireball this shouldn't be something he really has to exert to pull off. This fireball isn't anywhere near as impressive as Fiendfyre either. Gandalf doesn't have quicker reflexes as I point to the Witch King as proof. His best defense is standing there doing nothing and furthermore the Saruman showing confirms his wait and see approach he has against all alpha opponents. Not very wise to do against Voldemort.
Let's review:Gandalf faced a fireball blast that traveled 500 feet/152 meters in 1.5-2 seconds. His Shield easily handled the attack, and the defense required no exertion on the Istari's part.
In other words, Gandalf displayed quicker reflexes and superior stamina against a faster, more powerful fire attack.
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It is in the extended version and has always counted as evidence for the Witch King and Gandalf here. Gandalf should honestly be able to best them all since Aragorn did with just a torch and a sword. The fact one later bests him hurts his formidability bigtime.
😆 What I'm telling you is that it's completely non-canon and that the other adaptation and book both display a stalemate; in FOTR, Gandalf the Grey was powerful enough to fight all 9 Nazgul (including the Witch King) on Weathertop for an entire night that resulted in a draw.. The entire sequence was PIS/CIS at its finest. And even if you do stupidly consider it, it serves no point to your cause. {The Witch King was powered by Sauron too BTW}Everything I've said before is still true; Blinding Light + Shield + Pyrokinesis/Object Shattering = Destroyed wand and fvcked Voldemort. [/B]
I am the fairest one in the land.
Bullsh1t. You downplay feats, while overpraising your character's. [/B]
I was thinking more like....
Voldemort "engorio"s his cock.
Then he "reducio"s Gandalf's ***hole.
He then casts "revelio" on Gandalf's robes to see his brown star.
He then casts "protego" on his ween to keep from getting "AIDS a la Valar".
He then casts petrificus totalus on Gandalf.
He then casts stupify on Gandalf.
Voldemort WOULD cast homorphus on Gandalf...but Gandalf is already homorphed (TEEEEEHHEEEEE!)
Then...stuff...happens.
Between each session, he heals the minor tearing with Episkey. 🙂
Originally posted by quanchi112
It has never done any such thing. Voldemort also doesn't blindly miss or misfire either. So you're just making wild assumptions at this point and nothing else since you have no proof. I don't see any proof either of him being able to do so since he can logically only do so against inferior/less powerful opponents. I also don't see his shield tanking the avada kedavra. There's no proofo of that either.
Fail. Completely ignored my old arguments. All right, I'll repeat it again:
1. The Blinding Light completely stunned and drove back three Nazgul and their Fell Beasts from a large distance away. The Blinding Light blinded hundreds and hundreds of Uruk-Hai during the Rohirrim charge at Helm's Deep. Even when Gandalf wasn't trying to hurt Aragorn and Co., the Blinding Light was strong enough to completely block him out and cause Aragorn to put his hand in front of him due to the sheer brightness.
Watch from 0:11 to 0:14, and you see how potent this ability is even in its lowest showing.
2. LOL? Now you're telling me that Gandalf, when faced against Voldemort, will somehow be unable to conjure Blinding Light? No. He would and he will. I have proven to you the magnitude of the Blinding Light. In this close range, the brightness would completely blind/stun/incapacitate Voldemort. Now prove to me that Voldemort has 1337! eyes that are resistant to this power. Go.
3. Gandalf activates Blinding Light instantaneously the moment he is attacked. That's faster than any spell Voldemort can cast (and light is always faster than any spell).
You are exaggerating Gandalf's powers I mean the guy with the aid of an entire group took down a cave troll. Voldemort would simply one shot the pesky stupid troll. This really isn't close in terms of power/character ruthlessness or reflexes.
OMG Quan, read please. I even re-posted my earlier post about the in-character tendencies and abilities of Gandalf the Grey Normal & Istari version, and Gandalf the White Normal & Istari version. A cave troll isn't an alpha opponent that Gandalf has to violate the Valar's instructions for. Aragorn and Legolas could have killed the cave troll single-handedly.
The hell ? Fiendfyre is made up of magical fire and Dumbledore clearly defeated the snake and sent back the fire which comprised the snake right back at Voldemort. Fiendfyre is made up of fire.
Ok, so he exerts himself to stop a magical fire from touching him....and your point is ?
Saruman's fireball is also "made up of magical fire." Dumbledore tamed and dissipated the serpent, leaving himself with just a wave of fire that he sent back to Voldemort.
Gandalf exerts himself with groans and sighs while he swings his cane into Uruk-Haii and orcs.
Because he isn't relying on any magical abilities in these situations (Valar's instructions). Let's have Voldemort pick up a sword and staff and see if he can even kill a single Uruk-Hai.
So you agree Voldemort is quicker to react because he clearly negated it from touching him unlike Gandalf. Ok. Progress.
The hell? Gandalf wasn't giving a sh1t about Saruman's fireball; he didn't need to bother dissipating it when his Shield could easily tank it.
But wait, don't respond yet:
Gandalf activated his shield because he had a whole two seconds before it hit him. The distance it traveled was also further away and he weathered a fireball. Big deal. Voldemort shows the fire can't even touch him unlike Gandalf.
Gandalf had a lot of distance between himself and the fireball and had more than enough time to react. It's a fireball this shouldn't be something he really has to exert to pull off.
Quanchi, c'mon brah, quit just brushing through an argument as if it never occurred.
* The fireball took the same amount of time as Dumbledore's redirection.
* The fireball was moving much faster than Dumbledore's redirection.
* It was a concentrated fireball blast > wave of fire; that wasn't Fiendfyre anymore, but just a rush of flames.
* You're right, Gandalf doesn't exert any energy.And yet, Voldemort has to exert to dissipate a much slower, much less powerful wave of fire. Ergo, your argument about faster reflexes fail.
This fireball isn't anywhere near as impressive as Fiendfyre either. Gandalf doesn't have quicker reflexes as I point to the Witch King as proof. His best defense is standing there doing nothing and furthermore the Saruman showing confirms his wait and see approach he has against all alpha opponents. Not very wise to do against Voldemort.
This is exactly like your argument against Yoda, in the Battlezone. You keep relying on a CIS/PIS low showing as your counterargument. And Blinding Light, Shield, and Pyrokinesis/Object Shattering of the wand are all defensive abilities.
But wait, don't respond yet:
It is in the extended version and has always counted as evidence for the Witch King and Gandalf here. Gandalf should honestly be able to best them all since Aragorn did with just a torch and a sword. The fact one later bests him hurts his formidability bigtime.
It can be counted as evidence, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that it is massive PIS/CIS. And mind you, actual PIS/CIS (which is turned off in the MVF). Not DDM's dodge of calling my argument as "PIS/CIS". In the book, Gndalf the Grey battles the 9 Nazgul for an entire night to a draw at Weathertop. In the book and Bakshi film adaptation, Gandalf the White stalemates the Sauron-powered Witch King at Pelennor Fields. Ergo, it's not a matter of "should"; he really does best them all.
Once again though, this doesn't matter. Blinding Light + Shield (if necessary) + Pyrokinesis/Object Shattering = Destroyed wand and fvcked Voldemort.
Gandalf has demonstrated he can perform all those abilities in seconds. Voldemort has no defense against the crippling Blinding Light, or Pyrokinesis/Object Shattering on his wand.
I am the fairest one in the land.
😆
Originally posted by dadudemon
This is not my belief...but it boils down to this:Because he can cast blinding light, can block an arrow and something else, and make Aragorn's sword hot. All in the span of 6 seconds.
More like 4 seconds.
Originally posted by L2
Immobulus.
L2, not once does Voldemort ever open with Immobulus. Not only that, but can you even provide me a clip from the films in which he casts Immobulus.
Originally posted by kV
1. Voldemort vs. Harry- Graveyard Part I
OM: TK2. Voldemort vs. Harry- Graveyard Part II
OM: Avada Kedavra3. Voldemort vs Harry OOTP Part I
OM: TK4. Voldemort vs. Dumbledore
OM: Avada Kedavra-like spell5. Voldemort vs. Harry OOTP Part II
OM: Occlumency6. Voldemort vs. Snape
OM: Sectumsempra7. Voldemort vs. Harry DH Part I (when Harry flees)
OM: Incendio8. Voldemort vs. Harry DH Part 2 (Hogwarts)
OM: Avada Kedavra-like spell9. Voldemort vs. Harry DH Part 3 (Platforms)
OM: Avada Kedavra-like spell10. Voldemort vs. Harry DH Part 4 (Courtyard)
OM: Avada Kedavra11. Voldemort vs. Harry DH Part 5 (Courtyard)
OM: Avada KedavraEDIT: 12. Voldemort vs. Harry (Sky Battle)
OM: Avada KedavraIf you break this down:
3 AK-like spells
4 AK
1 Incendio1 Occlumency
1 Sectumsempra
2 TKYou can consider the 4 AK + 3 AK-like spells + Incendio as one category, since Voldemort would be firing a magical blast (the Killing Curse or a fireball) at Gandalf. 8/12 times Voldemort is following this battle characteristic.
For the remaining 4/12 times:
* Occlumency can be beaten by sheer willpower. Gandalf has a tremendous amount of willpower. Furthermore, Gandalf ousted Saruman in a mental battle for Theoden's life even though Saruman had a very long time to entrench himself in the king's mind. Saruman had the potential to kill Theoden if removed from his head. Yet, Gandalf managed to successfully extract him out.
* Gandalf, in Grey form, received multiple damaging TK hits before being weakened. And Saruman is only able to TK-grab the staff when Gandalf the Grey was weakened.
I still maintain my interpretation that Gandalf's all-purpose Shield would block this attack, and Voldemort's wand is spontaneously burned or shattered within several seconds of this duel.
Originally posted by kV
Hear me out:Gandalf, as ordered by the Valar, is not to be able to combat Sauron or other evils with power, but rather by other means (such as rallying the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth). Hence, in most fights, he relies on his physical abilities with the sword and staff. Yet, against "alpha" opponents, he has to resort to his inner Istari powers to successfully engage them.
Gandalf the Grey:
Normal Version- Against Goblins; Cave-troll
* Fights with sword and staff (Battle in the Chamber of Mazarbul)
Istari Version- Against Saruman; Durin's Bane
* Telekinesis (against Saruman) ; Shield (against Balrog) ; Blast (destroy the Bridge of Khazad-Dum) ; Lightning Blade (against Balrog)
Gandalf the White:
Normal Version- Against Uruk-Hai; Orcs; Trolls
* Fights with sword and staff (Battle of the Hornburg; Battle of the Pelennor Fields; Battle of the Morannon)
Istari Version- Against Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli; Horde of Uruk-Hai; Saruman; Nazgul; Witch-King of Angmar
* Blinding Light (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest; Rohirrim Cavalry charge in Battle of the Hornburg; Fall of Osgiliath) ; Shield (Confrontation with Saruman; Confrontation with the Witch-King) ; Pyrokinesis (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest) ; Blast (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest; Confrontation with Saruman) ; Mental Extraction (Elimination of Saruman from Theoden)
It's evident that because of these vast apparent differences in power and skill that we have to distinguish Gandalf into two categories, of which we can determine his in-character tendencies.
For Gandalf the White Istari version, we see that he is defensive-minded.
When Aragorn and company attack him in the Fangorn Forest, he defends (envelops himself in Blinding Light; shatters/burn opponent's weaponry). When Saruman unleashes a large fireball at him, he defends (with his Shield), and then uses Blast to obliterate his opponent's staff. When the Witch-King of Angmar faces him in Minas Tirith, you see Gandalf defending with his staff (you hear a magical sound- likely that of his invisible Shield being invoked). He also enjoys using Blinding Light on several occasions.
Against, Voldemort, an "alpha" opponent, we must look at the Istari version of Gandalf the White.
Originally posted by kV
If a particular character always starts a fight in a particular fashion, why would he/she suddenly drastically deviate from that manner?That's not CIS/PIS at all. There's zero stupidity involved. I am citing a move (or type of move) Voldemort performs on screen multiple times in his fight sequences. I'm not making anything up, or purposely suggesting he'll do some random@ss suicidal maneuver.
This is why I also say:
"That's all fine and dandy, but "in-character tendencies" are implicit.""
Because they essentially are. The style of fighting a character employs is the basis of judging their combat abilities against another's. For example, Obi-Wan Kenobi knows the lightsaber form Ataru. But in an MVF, posters would say he uses his defensive form Soresu because that's his preferred form and the one he typically utilizes in a fight.
Or it's like saying in a thread involving Legolas that the first thing the Elf does is rush forward with his knives as opposed to firing arrows.
Originally posted by Korto VosIt drove them back we have no idea if it actually stunned them. It didn't stun Legolas, etc. Yes, it's bright but despite the brightness they were still able to attack and Voldemort is used to quick thinking while in combat while Gandalf is used to sitting back waiting for his opponent to attack.
Fail. Completely ignored my old arguments. All right, I'll repeat it again:1. The Blinding Light completely stunned and drove back three Nazgul and their Fell Beasts from a [B]large distance
away. The Blinding Light blinded hundreds and hundreds of Uruk-Hai during the Rohirrim charge at Helm's Deep. Even when Gandalf wasn't trying to hurt Aragorn and Co., the Blinding Light was strong enough to completely block him out and cause Aragorn to put his hand in front of him due to the sheer brightness. [/B]
Not impressed. Not a smidge.
Blinding LightWatch from 0:11 to 0:14, and you see how potent this ability is even in its lowest showing. [/B]
2.When did I say he can't use it ? I never once said so I stated it won't be effective against him so let him conjure a really bright light. It has never stunned or ko'd anyone so that's inapplicable. Voldemort also was nearly drowned by Dumbledore and fired off an attack immediately showing you how quickly he can counter.
2. LOL? Now you're telling me that Gandalf, when faced against Voldemort, will somehow be unable to conjure Blinding Light? No. He would and he will. I have proven to you the magnitude of the Blinding Light. In this close range, the brightness would completely blind/stun/incapacitate Voldemort. Now prove to me that Voldemort has 1337! eyes that are resistant to this power. Go.3. Gandalf activates Blinding Light instantaneously the moment he is attacked. That's faster than any spell Voldemort can cast (and light is always faster than any spell). [/B]
3.So what ? Gandalf also doesn't attack his alpha opponents first so the first attack goes to Voldemort.
It was an alpha opponent since the entire party had to gang up on to kill. It's funny because Voldemort can let loose on anyone and something or someone as insignificant as a cave troll would be easily dealt with.
OMG Quan, read please. I even re-posted my earlier post about the in-character tendencies and abilities of Gandalf the Grey Normal & Istari version, and Gandalf the White Normal & Istari version. A cave troll isn't an alpha opponent that Gandalf has to violate the Valar's instructions for. Aragorn and Legolas could have killed the cave troll single-handedly.
[/B]
Fiendfyre is magical fire as well wtf. It's funny how hypocritical you are when claiming Saruman's is magical fire but Voldemort's isn't. Magical fire makes up the basilisk and he sent it back in raw form against him.
Saruman's fireball is also "made up of magical fire." Dumbledore tamed and dissipated the serpent, leaving himself with just a wave of fire that he sent back to Voldemort. [/B]
Voldmort doesn't have to listen to anyone else's instructions. That's the diffeence gandalf is some yes man while Voldemort is the king, babe.
Because he isn't relying on any magical abilities in these situations (Valar's instructions). Let's have Voldemort pick up a sword and staff and see if he can even kill a single Uruk-Hai. [/B]
The hell? Gandalf wasn't giving a sh1t about Saruman's fireball; he didn't need to bother dissipating it when his Shield could easily tank it.
There was still more distance in which to react so thus not impressive especially when we look at the Witch King own him while he stands there looking stupid. Magical fire makes up fiendfyre so of course it was magical.
But wait, don't respond yet:Quanchi, c'mon brah, quit just brushing through an argument as if it never occurred.
* The fireball took the same amount of time as Dumbledore's redirection.
* The fireball was moving much faster than Dumbledore's redirection.
* It was a concentrated fireball blast > wave of fire; that wasn't Fiendfyre anymore, but just a rush of flames.
* You're right, Gandalf doesn't exert any energy.And yet, Voldemort has to exert to dissipate a much slower, much less powerful wave of fire. Ergo, your argument about faster reflexes fail.[/B]
Gandalf's shield is exerting energy. Gandalf's reflexes were crap against the Witch King who slowly summons a sword of fire and then crushes his staff. That's horrible reactionary time.
You can't refer to the book here it isn't in the movie and one Nazgul defeated him despite Aragorn besting them all with one torch and a sword. 😂This is exactly like your argument against Yoda, in the Battlezone. You keep relying on a CIS/PIS low showing as your counterargument. And Blinding Light, Shield, and Pyrokinesis/Object Shattering of the wand are all defensive abilities.
But wait, don't respond yet:
It can be counted as evidence, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that it is massive PIS/CIS. And mind you, actual PIS/CIS (which is turned off in the MVF). Not DDM's dodge of calling my argument as "PIS/CIS". In the book, Gndalf the Grey battles the 9 Nazgul for an entire night to a draw at Weathertop. In the book and Bakshi film adaptation, Gandalf the White stalemates the Sauron-powered Witch King at Pelennor Fields. Ergo, it's not a matter of "should"; he really does best them all.
Once again though, this doesn't matter. Blinding Light + Shield (if necessary) + Pyrokinesis/Object Shattering = Destroyed wand and fvcked Voldemort.
Gandalf has demonstrated he can perform all those abilities in seconds. Voldemort has no defense against the crippling Blinding Light, or Pyrokinesis/Object Shattering on his wand.
😆 [/B]
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
facepalmJesus Christ, this is what you've devolved to? Way to take a leaf out of Quanchi's book.
WTH? Y'know I don't deserve that L2. I'm not saying Voldemort can't perform Immobulus, but going by the films, it's not a spell he has shown that he opens with. The movies have Voldemort using various spells, but I don't recall Immobulus ever being one of them. It's not out of his skillset, but isn't one that uses in battle.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Fail. Completely ignored my old arguments. All right, I'll repeat it again:1. The Blinding Light completely stunned and drove back three Nazgul and their Fell Beasts from a [B]large distance
away. The Blinding Light blinded hundreds and hundreds of Uruk-Hai during the Rohirrim charge at Helm's Deep. Even when Gandalf wasn't trying to hurt Aragorn and Co., the Blinding Light was strong enough to completely block him out and cause Aragorn to put his hand in front of him due to the sheer brightness.Watch from 0:11 to 0:14, and you see how potent this ability is even in its lowest showing.
2. LOL? Now you're telling me that Gandalf, when faced against Voldemort, will somehow be unable to conjure Blinding Light? No. He would and he will. I have proven to you the magnitude of the Blinding Light. In this close range, the brightness would completely blind/stun/incapacitate Voldemort. Now prove to me that Voldemort has 1337! eyes that are resistant to this power. Go.
3. Gandalf activates Blinding Light instantaneously the moment he is attacked. That's faster than any spell Voldemort can cast (and light is always faster than any spell). [/B]
I've raped all of those points, already:
Originally posted by dadudemon
What I see is about 2 seconds of warning....there is about 4 seconds of warning before Aragorn turns around...and they all stop..and stiffen up (no homo).
So, really...there is a clear indication that they are sensing something. That's plenty of warning for Gandalf to get his spell prep in.
On top of the 2 seconds warning aftewards.
...
Still...regardless of the "blinding light"...they still seemed to be able to aim properly at him. All it does is make him a sure target.
Compare that to the literal instant reaction, blocking, and spell reversing that Voldemort did withOUT warning.
In other words, your scene takes about 6 seconds to do it's thing.
Voldemort's takes place in less than 1 and is almost instant.
If you want to argue reactions, you'd have to side with Voldy, not Gandalf. You should use a different angle to support Gandalf: the reaction angle really sucks and only hurts your side.
Originally posted by Korto VosJust as we've seen Gandalf open every engagement trying to destroy everything made of wood and casting a shield around him that still will not block Avada Kedavra? Or is that only when he has time to prepare for an ambush or a slow building confrontation?
WTH? Y'know I don't deserve that L2. I'm not saying Voldemort can't perform Immobulus, but going by the films, it's [B]not a spell he has shown that he opens with. The movies have Voldemort using various spells, but I don't recall Immobulus ever being one of them. It's not out of his skillset, but isn't one that uses in battle. [/B]
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Just as we've seen Gandalf open every engagement trying to destroy everything made of wood and casting a shield around him that still will not block Avada Kedavra? Or is that only when he has time to prepare for an ambush or a slow building confrontation?
Pointing out the hypocrisy in his line of reasoning doesn't work (I already pointed out where Gandalf is far more likely to just talk to Voldemort than do anything...than he is to do any spells). Even calling what he's doing, scripting and invoking CIS/PIS to win, still isn't enough to get him to let go of his silly line of reasoning.
When someone as giant of blind fanboy, that he is, MUST have a win...he will. Even it it means throwing away logic, reasoning, and maturity. GANDALF TOTALLY WINS BY CASTING BLINDING LIGHT AGAINST A VASTLY SUPERIOR FOE THAT WOULD NOT EVEN BE PHASED BY BLINDING LIGHT! THAT'S WHY GANDALF WIIIINNNNNS! WHOOOOOPPEEEEEEE! 😄