Korto Vos
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Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Which post? I'm not reading through 30 pages.
Originally posted by me
ear me out:Gandalf, as ordered by the Valar, is not to be able to combat Sauron or other evils with power, but rather by other means (such as rallying the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth). Hence, in most fights, he relies on his physical abilities with the sword and staff. Yet, against "alpha" opponents, he has to resort to his inner Istari powers to successfully engage them.
Gandalf the Grey:
Normal Version- Against Goblins; Cave-troll
* Fights with sword and staff (Battle in the Chamber of Mazarbul)
Istari Version- Against Saruman; Durin's Bane
* Telekinesis (against Saruman) ; Shield (against Balrog) ; Blast (destroy the Bridge of Khazad-Dum) ; Lightning Blade (against Balrog)
Gandalf the White:
Normal Version- Against Uruk-Hai; Orcs; Trolls
* Fights with sword and staff (Battle of the Hornburg; Battle of the Pelennor Fields; Battle of the Morannon)
Istari Version- Against Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli; Horde of Uruk-Hai; Saruman; Nazgul; Witch-King of Angmar
* Blinding Light (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest; Rohirrim Cavalry charge in Battle of the Hornburg; Fall of Osgiliath) ; Shield (Confrontation with Saruman; Confrontation with the Witch-King) ; Pyrokinesis (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest) ; Blast (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest; Confrontation with Saruman) ; Mental Extraction (Elimination of Saruman from Theoden)
It's evident that because of these vast apparent differences in power and skill that we have to distinguish Gandalf into two categories, of which we can determine his in-character tendencies.
For Gandalf the White Istari version, we see that he is defensive-minded.
When Aragorn and company attack him in the Fangorn Forest, he defends (envelops himself in Blinding Light; shatters/burn opponent's weaponry). When Saruman unleashes a large fireball at him, he defends (with his Shield), and then uses Blast to obliterate his opponent's staff. When the Witch-King of Angmar faces him in Minas Tirith, you see Gandalf defending with his staff (you hear a magical sound- likely that of his invisible Shield being invoked). He also enjoys using Blinding Light on several occasions.
Against, Voldemort, an "alpha" opponent, we must look at the Istari version of Gandalf the White.
Therefore, it's likely for Gandalf the White to use defensive abilities such as Blinding Light, Shield, and either Pyrokinesis or Blast on Voldemort's weapon (his wand).
Responding to that troll/nitwit for this long and delving in to this quagmire of back-and-forth "you're an idiot" and "you're a troll"... yeah, that's a negative tactic.
Are you talking about Quanchi or DDM? I've been responding more to DDM than Quanchi...Regardless of whoever you were referring to, what do you expect me to do? Not respond, and have either of them claim I conceded? Sure, I'm guilty of saying "troll" or "idiot," but I don't bash other posters unless I'm defending myself.
Remember when I said back in the Helm's Deep thread that I refuse to use No Limits or its variations? You're doing it right now. The Darkest Dark Wizard in all of history, a child prodigy far beyond Hermione, might know those spells? A 12 year old girl cast it perfectly and Lord Voldemort might be able to? That is exactly the line of reasoning that someone like Quanchi uses, so my criticism of you stands. Biased and desperate to beat him.
1. No Limits is a fallacy, however. I understand your rationale for refusing to use it, but because it's a fallacy, you can't necessarily claim others are wrong because they are following its principle.
2. Okay, sorry, he does know how to use it. However, I say again that though these spells are not out of his skillset, they are not ones he applies in battle.
Is this not the MVF, and we have to rely on on-screen feats? Sure, he can cast any number of incantations, but the films demonstrate the vast majority of times he is opening/using Avada Kedavra or an AK-resembling spell. Probability is my basis. Only after Avada Kedavra fails does Voldemort resort to other spells against Dumbledore in OOTP. And against Harry in DH2. I'm saying Gandalf would have destroyed Voldemort's wand before that next spell.
3. Arguing typical battle strategies/moves are now a "line of reasoning that someone like Quanchi does"?
4. I don't care who my opponent is; it could be you. It could be Neph. It could be DDM. It could be anyone, and I'd still argue the same. Quanchi is just a 'sh1t stirrer,' and enjoys arguing against me.
If you want to judge the outcome based on what you think each character may do first depending on their personality, then Gandalf dies instantly, no matter his power. His first instinct and move is never to whip out his wand and cast a death blow. He talks. He stands still. One Killing Curse, and he's down. Simple. And should Gandalf's physical abilities suddenly take a turn for the Jedi, where he unsheathes his sword and puts it directly in the curse's path--and it breaks--, then one more Killing Curse and he's down.Occam's Razor.
Gandalf's talking isn't battle/combat, but pre-battle characteristics. Likewise, the same could be said for Voldemort. In OOTP, instead of having the direct shot to kill Harry, Voldemort decides to taunt him and say, "So weak." Against Dumbledore, he allows the Headmaster to speak and then taunt, "By which time I shall be gone. And you...shall be dead" before attacking. In DH2, instead of just murdering Snape, he talks to him before slashing him with Sectumsempra. Later in the movie, instead of just finishing Potter, he starts yelling and beating up on Harry on the Hogwarts platforms. Personality does not translate to typical battle strategies/moves.
Gandalf needs time for his shield--a shield that will still not block a Killing Curse.
Killing Curse is blocked repeatedly throughout DH2.
Gandalf cannot go around breaking anything made of wood just because he feels like it--Saruman was a fellow Istari and Gandalf had been returned with the authority to banish him, it was a symbolic act and supported by the official canon. The Blinding Light I keep hearing about his anything but blinding--it's just Rather Bright Light. None of the trio were blinded enough to close or cover their eyes, and both Legolas and Gimli fired perfectly at their mark.
This was argued previously. Just because the act was symbolic doesn't mean the feat cannot be replicated. Gandalf uses a similar breaking power when he shatters Gimli's throwing ax. Likewise, the Witch-King uses the same power when he destroys Gandalf's staff. This Blast is a definite magical ability for LOTR higher beings.
Furthermore, Gandalf doesn't need to use Blast. He can also instantly burn Voldemort's wand since he has spontaneous Pyrokinesis against which the wizard has no defense.
Secondly, the Blinding Light against the trio was on low power. Gandalf wasn't trying to blind the three, and he activated it to disguise himself and to hamper the ambush. In greater magnitude, it completely stunned and drove away three Nazgul on Fell Beasts from a large distance away, and blinded hundreds of Uruk-Hai during the Rohirrim charge.
At this close range (between Voldemort and Gandalf), and in full power, the brightness would stun/blind Voldemort.
Avada Kedavra, Crucio, Immobulus, Petrificus Totalus, Stupefy, Bombarda... the list goes on. Any one of these spells--spells that Gandalf [b]can not block or dodge--and he's either dead/disarmed/immobilized etc. The stupider, poorly acted, annoying character wins. Unfortunately. This isn't bias for Voldemort--he sucks as a character. It's common sense and Occam's Razor. I can not make it any plainer. [/B]
I agree that there are spells that would immobilize Gandalf, such as Petrificus Totalus. But you are aware by now why I say such spells are unlikely to be opened with.
But if the probability line is not to be allowed, then yes, I would concede.