Voldemort vs. Gandalf the White

Started by Lord Lucien43 pages

Originally posted by dadudemon
Pointing out the hypocrisy in his line of reasoning doesn't work (I already pointed out where Gandalf is far more likely to just talk to Voldemort than do anything...than he is to do any spells). Even calling what he's doing, scripting and invoking CIS/PIS to win, still isn't enough to get him to let go of his silly line of reasoning.

When someone as giant of blind fanboy, that he is, MUST have a win...he will. Even it it means throwing away logic, reasoning, and maturity. GANDALF TOTALLY WINS BY CASTING BLINDING LIGHT AGAINST A VASTLY SUPERIOR FOE THAT WOULD NOT EVEN BE PHASED BY BLINDING LIGHT! THAT'S WHY GANDALF WIIIINNNNNS! WHOOOOOPPEEEEEEE! 😄

Sadly you're right. I was hoping with RJ gone that only Quanchi would follow that line of reasoning. But even his opposition has resorted to the same tactic.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Just as we've seen Gandalf open every engagement trying to destroy everything made of wood and casting a shield around him that still will not block Avada Kedavra? Or is that only when he has time to prepare for an ambush or a slow building confrontation?

We have only few instances of Gandalf the White's Istari abilities when fighting alpha opponents, and we have to rely on them. Look back on my post on Gandalf. He does use Blinding Light and activates his Shield often.


Sadly you're right. I was hoping with RJ gone that only Quanchi would follow that line of reasoning. But even his opposition has resorted to the same tactic.

I can't believe you are agreeing with his rude, ridiculous statements. Just because I don't agree with you suddenly you think I am resorting to negative tactics. I'm taking both characters battle strategies and basing my decision.

Just because Voldemort might know spells such as Immobulus, Petrificus Totalus, Bat-Bogey Hex, whatever, he never uses it once in a fight, least as an opening move.

Originally posted by DDM

I've raped all of those points, already:

WTF? Sorry, you never proved that Voldemort is somehow resistant to Blinding Light. Secondly, they attack Gandalf, and when that ambush occurs does Gandalf cast Blinding Light; quit trying to downplay feats. Third, I thought I made it rather obvious to Quanchi that there is a large difference in magnitude of the brightness.

Compare that to the literal instant reaction, blocking, and spell reversing that Voldemort did withOUT warning.

In other words, your scene takes about 6 seconds to do it's thing.

Voldemort's takes place in less than 1 and is almost instant.

If you want to argue reactions, you'd have to side with Voldy, not Gandalf. You should use a different angle to support Gandalf: the reaction angle really sucks and only hurts your side.

Why don't you post that video again and we'll see whether you are exaggerating or not? Don't tell me it's one of your classic non-combat situations where Harry isn't fit to fight and Voldemort just beats up on him?


Pointing out the hypocrisy in his line of reasoning doesn't work (I already pointed out where Gandalf is far more likely to just talk to Voldemort than do anything...than he is to do any spells). Even calling what he's doing, scripting and invoking CIS/PIS to win, still isn't enough to get him to let go of his silly line of reasoning.

When someone as giant of blind fanboy, that he is, MUST have a win...he will. Even it it means throwing away logic, reasoning, and maturity. GANDALF TOTALLY WINS BY CASTING BLINDING LIGHT AGAINST A VASTLY SUPERIOR FOE THAT WOULD NOT EVEN BE PHASED BY BLINDING LIGHT! THAT'S WHY GANDALF WIIIINNNNNS! WHOOOOOPPEEEEEEE!

I find it sad how you weren't able to prove me wrong with the opening move argument, and had to resort to calling my entire argument as CIS/PIS as your last defense.

You're an idiot. Just look at the inane babble you just typed up. You know who's the actual fanboy? You:

Voldemort "engorio"s his cock.

Then he "reducio"s Gandalf's ***hole.

He then casts "revelio" on Gandalf's robes to see his brown star.

He then casts "protego" on his ween to keep from getting "AIDS a la Valar".

He then casts petrificus totalus on Gandalf.

He then casts stupify on Gandalf.

Voldemort WOULD cast homorphus on Gandalf...but Gandalf is already homorphed (TEEEEEHHEEEEE!)

Then...stuff...happens.

And saying other batsh1t stuff Voldemort will use that never demonstrates in the films.

Give me a fvcking break; if you want to talk trash about your opponent, at least don't come off as a pathetic hypocrite.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
We have only few instances of Gandalf the White's Istari abilities when fighting alpha opponents, and we have to rely on them. Look back on my post on Gandalf. He does use Blinding Light and activates his Shield often.
Which post? I'm not reading through 30 pages.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I can't believe you are agreeing with his rude, ridiculous statements. Just because I don't agree with you suddenly you think I am resorting to negative tactics. I'm taking both characters battle strategies and basing my decision.
Responding to that troll/nitwit for this long and delving in to this quagmire of back-and-forth "you're an idiot" and "you're a troll"... yeah, that's a negative tactic.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Just because Voldemort might know spells such as Immobulus, Petrificus Totalus, Bat-Bogey Hex, whatever, he never uses it once in a fight, least as an opening move.
Remember when I said back in the Helm's Deep thread that I refuse to use No Limits or its variations? You're doing it right now. The Darkest Dark Wizard in all of history, a child prodigy far beyond Hermione, might know those spells? A 12 year old girl cast it perfectly and Lord Voldemort might be able to? That is exactly the line of reasoning that someone like Quanchi uses, so my criticism of you stands. Biased and desperate to beat him.

If you want to judge the outcome based on what you think each character may do first depending on their personality, then Gandalf dies instantly, no matter his power. His first instinct and move is never to whip out his wand and cast a death blow. He talks. He stands still. One Killing Curse, and he's down. Simple. And should Gandalf's physical abilities suddenly take a turn for the Jedi, where he unsheathes his sword and puts it directly in the curse's path--and it breaks--, then one more Killing Curse and he's down.

Occam's Razor.

Gandalf needs time for his shield--a shield that will still not block a Killing Curse. Gandalf cannot go around breaking anything made of wood just because he feels like it--Saruman was a fellow Istari and Gandalf had been returned with the authority to banish him, it was a symbolic act and supported by the official canon. The Blinding Light I keep hearing about his anything but blinding--it's just Rather Bright Light. None of the trio were blinded enough to close or cover their eyes, and both Legolas and Gimli fired perfectly at their mark.

Avada Kedavra, Crucio, Immobulus, Petrificus Totalus, Stupefy, Bombarda... the list goes on. Any one of these spells--spells that Gandalf can not block or dodge--and he's either dead/disarmed/immobilized etc. The stupider, poorly acted, annoying character wins. Unfortunately. This isn't bias for Voldemort--he sucks as a character. It's common sense and Occam's Razor. I can not make it any plainer.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Just because Voldemort might know spells such as Immobulus, Petrificus Totalus, Bat-Bogey Hex, whatever, he never uses it once in a fight, least as an opening move.

That's a very slippery slope argument.

If you bring that up...against one of THE most knowledgeable Wizards (enough to make Dumbledore compliment his knowledge), then you force retarded situations into the MVF:

Mace Windu cannot use Force Push or Pull because he wasn't seen doing it on screen.

Voldemort cannot use simple spells taught school (ie immobulus)

Hit Girl cannot use a Beretta 92F because she wasn't seen using one in the movies.

And so forth...

Originally posted by Korto Vos
WTF? Sorry, you never proved that Voldemort is somehow resistant to Blinding Light. Secondly, they attack Gandalf, and when that ambush occurs does Gandalf cast Blinding Light; quit trying to downplay feats. Third, I thought I made it rather obvious to Quanchi that there is a large difference in magnitude of the brightness.

I did too.

How is blinding light supposed to blind a cloud of smoke (good god, man...do I really have to repeat myself to you, again?)

And blinding light did not actually blind, at all. I explained already that Gimli threw shit at him (accurately) and Legolas threw shit at him (accurately) while Blinding Light was activated. All it actually did was obscure their view of his face...but made him an easier target. He might as well draw a target on himself.

And you made shit clear to Quanchi: you're pretending blinding light does anything when you've been countered every which way to Sunday.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Why don't you post that video again and we'll see whether you are exaggerating or not? Don't tell me it's one of your classic non-combat situations where Harry isn't fit to fight and Voldemort just beats up on him?

Why don't you look back in the thread and find it yourself?

Better yet, why don't you look on youtube?

After posting that video about 6-10 times via requoting myself, there's no way I'm going to do it again, for you. GTFO with those silly troll requests.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I find it sad how you weren't able to prove me wrong with the opening move argument, and had to resort to calling my entire argument as CIS/PIS as your last defense.

I find it sad that you ignored how I not only nulled your argument about his opening moves, quite thoroughly, but you also pretend that I only correctly called it CIS/PIS. If this is all you have...

Originally posted by Korto Vos
You're an idiot. Just look at the inane babble you just typed up. You know who's the actual fanboy? You:

Poor Korto: Mad because I've accurately represented your argument in one fanboy characterization. 🙁

This too shall pass. 🙂

Originally posted by Korto Vos
And saying other batsh1t stuff Voldemort will use that never demonstrates in the films.

1. It's...a joke. 😆
2. You took that seriously???? 😆
3. That's a very slippery slope argument. See the first section. 🙂

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Give me a fvcking break; if you want to talk trash about your opponent, at least don't come off as a pathetic hypocrite.

😆

Wait wait...I'll post like you for a bit (RJ):

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Responding to that troll/nitwit for this long and delving in to this quagmire of back-and-forth "you're an idiot" and "you're a troll"... yeah, that's a negative tactic.

Pretty much all I've done the last 10+ pages is recycle my same arguments against a ...crazy person repeating himself. Internet RAAAAAGE!

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
If you want to judge the outcome based on what you think each character may do first depending on their personality, then Gandalf dies instantly, no matter his power. His first instinct and move is never to whip out his wand and cast a death blow. He talks. He stands still. One Killing Curse, and he's down. Simple. And should Gandalf's physical abilities suddenly take a turn for the Jedi, where he unsheathes his sword and puts it directly in the curse's path--and it breaks--, then one more Killing Curse and he's down.

Occam's Razor.

Gandalf needs time for his shield--a shield that will still not block a Killing Curse. Gandalf cannot go around breaking anything made of wood just because he feels like it--Saruman was a fellow Istari and Gandalf had been returned with the authority to banish him, it was a symbolic act and supported by the official canon. The Blinding Light I keep hearing about his anything but blinding--it's just Rather Bright Light. None of the trio were blinded enough to close or cover their eyes, and both Legolas and Gimli fired perfectly at their mark.

Avada Kedavra, Crucio, Immobulus, Petrificus Totalus, Stupefy, Bombarda... the list goes on. Any one of these spells--spells that Gandalf [b]can not block or dodge--and he's either dead/disarmed/immobilized etc. The stupider, poorly acted, annoying character wins. Unfortunately. This isn't bias for Voldemort--he sucks as a character. It's common sense and Occam's Razor. I can not make it any plainer. [/B]

WTF?

Except the sword breaking....those are all my arguments. 😐

Get your own material. uhuh

Quit it with the bashing please. It just makes you guys look childish.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Quit it with the bashing please. It just makes you guys look childish.

Nah. He's fine. And, I didn't "bash" Korto in my next reply.

Originally posted by dadudemon
WTF?

Except the sword breaking....those are all my arguments. 😐

Get your own material. uhuh

I'm sorry, I was just, sooo bored.

Wat?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wat?
What do you mean "Wat"?

I MEAN WAAAAAT!

Hey guys, it was just on the news, Placidity says Voldemort wins.

Shit I'd better TiVO that.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Which post? I'm not reading through 30 pages.

Originally posted by me
ear me out:

Gandalf, as ordered by the Valar, is not to be able to combat Sauron or other evils with power, but rather by other means (such as rallying the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth). Hence, in most fights, he relies on his physical abilities with the sword and staff. Yet, against "alpha" opponents, he has to resort to his inner Istari powers to successfully engage them.

Gandalf the Grey:

Normal Version- Against Goblins; Cave-troll

* Fights with sword and staff (Battle in the Chamber of Mazarbul)

Istari Version- Against Saruman; Durin's Bane

* Telekinesis (against Saruman) ; Shield (against Balrog) ; Blast (destroy the Bridge of Khazad-Dum) ; Lightning Blade (against Balrog)

Gandalf the White:

Normal Version- Against Uruk-Hai; Orcs; Trolls

* Fights with sword and staff (Battle of the Hornburg; Battle of the Pelennor Fields; Battle of the Morannon)

Istari Version- Against Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli; Horde of Uruk-Hai; Saruman; Nazgul; Witch-King of Angmar

* Blinding Light (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest; Rohirrim Cavalry charge in Battle of the Hornburg; Fall of Osgiliath) ; Shield (Confrontation with Saruman; Confrontation with the Witch-King) ; Pyrokinesis (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest) ; Blast (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest; Confrontation with Saruman) ; Mental Extraction (Elimination of Saruman from Theoden)

It's evident that because of these vast apparent differences in power and skill that we have to distinguish Gandalf into two categories, of which we can determine his in-character tendencies.

For Gandalf the White Istari version, we see that he is defensive-minded.

When Aragorn and company attack him in the Fangorn Forest, he defends (envelops himself in Blinding Light; shatters/burn opponent's weaponry). When Saruman unleashes a large fireball at him, he defends (with his Shield), and then uses Blast to obliterate his opponent's staff. When the Witch-King of Angmar faces him in Minas Tirith, you see Gandalf defending with his staff (you hear a magical sound- likely that of his invisible Shield being invoked). He also enjoys using Blinding Light on several occasions.

Against, Voldemort, an "alpha" opponent, we must look at the Istari version of Gandalf the White.

Therefore, it's likely for Gandalf the White to use defensive abilities such as Blinding Light, Shield, and either Pyrokinesis or Blast on Voldemort's weapon (his wand).

Responding to that troll/nitwit for this long and delving in to this quagmire of back-and-forth "you're an idiot" and "you're a troll"... yeah, that's a negative tactic.

Are you talking about Quanchi or DDM? I've been responding more to DDM than Quanchi...Regardless of whoever you were referring to, what do you expect me to do? Not respond, and have either of them claim I conceded? Sure, I'm guilty of saying "troll" or "idiot," but I don't bash other posters unless I'm defending myself.

Remember when I said back in the Helm's Deep thread that I refuse to use No Limits or its variations? You're doing it right now. The Darkest Dark Wizard in all of history, a child prodigy far beyond Hermione, might know those spells? A 12 year old girl cast it perfectly and Lord Voldemort might be able to? That is exactly the line of reasoning that someone like Quanchi uses, so my criticism of you stands. Biased and desperate to beat him.

1. No Limits is a fallacy, however. I understand your rationale for refusing to use it, but because it's a fallacy, you can't necessarily claim others are wrong because they are following its principle.

2. Okay, sorry, he does know how to use it. However, I say again that though these spells are not out of his skillset, they are not ones he applies in battle.

Is this not the MVF, and we have to rely on on-screen feats? Sure, he can cast any number of incantations, but the films demonstrate the vast majority of times he is opening/using Avada Kedavra or an AK-resembling spell. Probability is my basis. Only after Avada Kedavra fails does Voldemort resort to other spells against Dumbledore in OOTP. And against Harry in DH2. I'm saying Gandalf would have destroyed Voldemort's wand before that next spell.

3. Arguing typical battle strategies/moves are now a "line of reasoning that someone like Quanchi does"?

4. I don't care who my opponent is; it could be you. It could be Neph. It could be DDM. It could be anyone, and I'd still argue the same. Quanchi is just a 'sh1t stirrer,' and enjoys arguing against me.

If you want to judge the outcome based on what you think each character may do first depending on their personality, then Gandalf dies instantly, no matter his power. His first instinct and move is never to whip out his wand and cast a death blow. He talks. He stands still. One Killing Curse, and he's down. Simple. And should Gandalf's physical abilities suddenly take a turn for the Jedi, where he unsheathes his sword and puts it directly in the curse's path--and it breaks--, then one more Killing Curse and he's down.

Occam's Razor.

Gandalf's talking isn't battle/combat, but pre-battle characteristics. Likewise, the same could be said for Voldemort. In OOTP, instead of having the direct shot to kill Harry, Voldemort decides to taunt him and say, "So weak." Against Dumbledore, he allows the Headmaster to speak and then taunt, "By which time I shall be gone. And you...shall be dead" before attacking. In DH2, instead of just murdering Snape, he talks to him before slashing him with Sectumsempra. Later in the movie, instead of just finishing Potter, he starts yelling and beating up on Harry on the Hogwarts platforms. Personality does not translate to typical battle strategies/moves.

Gandalf needs time for his shield--a shield that will still not block a Killing Curse.

Killing Curse is blocked repeatedly throughout DH2.

Gandalf cannot go around breaking anything made of wood just because he feels like it--Saruman was a fellow Istari and Gandalf had been returned with the authority to banish him, it was a symbolic act and supported by the official canon. The Blinding Light I keep hearing about his anything but blinding--it's just Rather Bright Light. None of the trio were blinded enough to close or cover their eyes, and both Legolas and Gimli fired perfectly at their mark.

This was argued previously. Just because the act was symbolic doesn't mean the feat cannot be replicated. Gandalf uses a similar breaking power when he shatters Gimli's throwing ax. Likewise, the Witch-King uses the same power when he destroys Gandalf's staff. This Blast is a definite magical ability for LOTR higher beings.

Furthermore, Gandalf doesn't need to use Blast. He can also instantly burn Voldemort's wand since he has spontaneous Pyrokinesis against which the wizard has no defense.

Secondly, the Blinding Light against the trio was on low power. Gandalf wasn't trying to blind the three, and he activated it to disguise himself and to hamper the ambush. In greater magnitude, it completely stunned and drove away three Nazgul on Fell Beasts from a large distance away, and blinded hundreds of Uruk-Hai during the Rohirrim charge.

At this close range (between Voldemort and Gandalf), and in full power, the brightness would stun/blind Voldemort.

Avada Kedavra, Crucio, Immobulus, Petrificus Totalus, Stupefy, Bombarda... the list goes on. Any one of these spells--spells that Gandalf [b]can not block or dodge--and he's either dead/disarmed/immobilized etc. The stupider, poorly acted, annoying character wins. Unfortunately. This isn't bias for Voldemort--he sucks as a character. It's common sense and Occam's Razor. I can not make it any plainer. [/B]

I agree that there are spells that would immobilize Gandalf, such as Petrificus Totalus. But you are aware by now why I say such spells are unlikely to be opened with.

But if the probability line is not to be allowed, then yes, I would concede.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's a very slippery slope argument.

If you bring that up...against one of THE most knowledgeable Wizards (enough to make Dumbledore compliment his knowledge), then you force retarded situations into the MVF:

Mace Windu cannot use Force Push or Pull because he wasn't seen doing it on screen.

Voldemort cannot use simple spells taught school (ie immobulus)

Hit Girl cannot use a Beretta 92F because she wasn't seen using one in the movies.

And so forth...

Windu does use Force Push or Pull BTW.

See what I said to L2. Probability is my basis.

If we are to consider out-of-character battle strategies/moves, then yes, you would be right with what you said above.

In which case I would concede.

I did too.

How is blinding light supposed to blind a cloud of smoke (good god, man...do I really have to repeat myself to you, again?)

Hmm, well once the figure emerges from the cloud of smoke, the Blinding Light would still be effective.

Gandalf fired Blinding Light at a moving target before (the Nazgul on the Fell Beasts).

And blinding light did not actually blind, at all. I explained already that Gimli threw shit at him (accurately) and Legolas threw shit at him (accurately) while Blinding Light was activated. All it actually did was obscure their view of his face...but made him an easier target. He might as well draw a target on himself.

The brightness was on the lowest level in that instance. Against the Uruk-Hai and Nazgul, the brightness was much more powerful.

And you made shit clear to Quanchi: you're pretending blinding light does anything when you've been countered every which way to Sunday.

Okay.

Why don't you look back in the thread and find it yourself?

Better yet, why don't you look on youtube?

After posting that video about 6-10 times via requoting myself, there's no way I'm going to do it again, for you. GTFO with those silly troll requests.

All right, tell me the name of the video.

I find it sad that you ignored how I not only nulled your argument about his opening moves, quite thoroughly, but you also pretend that I only correctly called it CIS/PIS. If this is all you have...

Poor Korto: Mad because I've accurately represented your argument in one fanboy characterization. 🙁

This too shall pass. 🙂

1. It's...a joke. 😆
2. You took that seriously???? 😆
3. That's a very slippery slope argument. See the first section. 🙂

😆

Wait wait...I'll post like you for a bit (RJ):

Pretty much all I've done the last 10+ pages is recycle my same arguments against a ...crazy person repeating himself. Internet RAAAAAGE!

WTF?

Except the sword breaking....those are all my arguments. 😐

Get your own material. uhuh

👆

I have no counterargument against such brilliant statements.

Voldemort just slits Gandalf's throat with a gesture like he did to Snape. What then?

He did?

................

How is this thread still open?

Originally posted by Nephthys
He did?

YouTube video

/thread.

Just several more posts and this will become the 13th largest thread in the MVF.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Just several more posts and this will become the 13th largest thread in the MVF.
Well if you'd man up and respond to my posts this thread would never end.