Originally posted by DARTH POWERHerc never held up the Earth.
Yep also Thor stalemated Hercules in an arm wrestle.. I doubt anyone's gna argue that either of them were holding back.. They both were trying their best to win.. And we know the kind of strength feats Hercules has. Moving Manhattan, Holding up the Earth..
Originally posted by h1a8
But what you don't understand is that even though the Tower of Pisa weighs 15,000 tons Thor didn't lift it up but rather pushed it. That means he could applied a 100 ton force or less to topple it. I can curl 100lb with both hands and can push with 50lb of force with 1 finger. This is half. So the leaning Tower of Pisa feat sucks.
Thats complete Bull. So you can push more with your Little Finger now, than you can lift with Both your hands?!
I can bench 90kg with both hands.. You think I could for the life of me Push 90 kg with my little finger??! Is that supposed to sound logical to me?!
And its not like the tower of pisa is some ball which is easily pushed along. Collapsing it from it roots in the ground is a big feat. Much bigger than you realise.
Originally posted by h1a8
In comics characters are written down to others in order to have a good fight. If one character was just 10 tons stronger than another then the stronger would manhandle the weaker like a rag doll. Because of much inconsistencies due to plot and story the best test of strength is against the control (nature).Space cheese feats could be PIS. In other words, just because a character achieved a feat doesn't make it valid.
Lastly, Glads strength in the comic is not static for two reasons:
1. It is based off his confidence
2. It is based off the writer at the timeBut many other character's strength is based just off the writer at the time.
The Asgard feat does trump the skyscraper feats. But what you don't understand is that even though the Tower of Pisa weighs 15,000 tons Thor didn't lift it up but rather pushed it. That means he could applied a 100 ton force or less to topple it. I can curl 100lb with both hands and can push with 50lb of force with 1 finger. This is half. So the leaning Tower of Pisa feat sucks.
With that said, it's about the planet busting feat vs. Thor's top feat.
Once again you show your biased. sighting every possible high end feat for your favored character and using it as proof and at the same time dismissing high end feats of Thor to down play him. Classic h1 biased shitty logic.
And then dismissing legit feats as nothing and using stupid logic to discredit it.
you are just full of shit.
in fact quan,carver,starscream>>>>>>>>>>>> than you and your biased shit.
Originally posted by abhilegendNot really since it is unquantifiable. It could have taken less force than lifting a planet or more. We don't know.
World engine trumps busting a giant rock any day of the week and twice on sundays.
Originally posted by gogogadgetgoI'm giving Thor his best feat and Glads still wins at the planet busting feat. How is that bias?
Once again you show your biased. sighting every possible high end feat for your favored character and using it as proof and at the same time dismissing high end feats of Thor to down play him. Classic h1 biased shitty logic.And then dismissing legit feats as nothing and using stupid logic to discredit it.
you are just full of shit.
in fact quan,carver,starscream>>>>>>>>>>>> than you and your biased shit.
Originally posted by leonidas
well...much of it was, though reed says he clearly possessed superhuman stats as well so who knows how strong he was SUPPOSED to be. i was always under the impression he basically lifted the building but his psi powers kept it together. but it's open to interpretation.i agree specially since that's exactly what reed said happened.... 😛
This is applied even in today's time. This is how I would go about it.
He is a Superhumanoid, which are farther enhanced by his own psi energies. Replaced the word psi, with mental energy.
Than it becomes easier to understand that mental energy, fuels his super stats. The moment that connection is broken. Or the moment, he loses concentration in the form of self doubt. His body no longer benefits from the pool of mental energy boosting his stats. He is reduced to his base stats.
Still strong, but not as strong.
Originally posted by "Id"
This is applied even in today's time. This is how I would go about it.He is a Superhumanoid, which are farther enhanced by his own psi energies. Replaced the word psi, with mental energy.
Than it becomes easier to understand that mental energy, fuels his super stats. The moment that connection is broken. Or the moment, he loses concentration in the form of self doubt. His body no longer benefits from the pool of mental energy boosting his stats. He is reduced to his base stats.
Still strong, but not as strong.
well, that's what is supposed to happen. again, i have no problem with that. the issue i have is that when he loses fights, his 'confidence' is rarely alluded to before OR after the fight. hell, characters who doubt themselves ALWAYS get weak. a perfect example is the recently discussed hercules vs wrecking crew issue. thor was stabbed by crusader because he lost his faith in himself. spiderman has been through a simliar experience, as has daredevil. i'm sure many more have. i seem to recall times where both ironman and cap BOTH suffered from a lack of belief in themselves and lost battles because of it, only to return later to overcome their doubts and win the battle. wonderman is yet another clear example, suffering all manner of doubt after his 'death'.
in all cases, 'confidence/belief' is overtly mentioned as the reason for their troubles. with glads, it seems 1 of 2 things are to be (usually) assumed:
1--he did not go INTO the battle at full confidence, or,
2--he somehow LOST confidence during the battle
in BOTH cases, we are supposed to simply ASSUME one or the other because we are rarely TOLD. i mentioned it was a myth that he lost battles because he lost confidence. i say that because it is so rarely directly stated to be the case and i really don't see how we are supposed to simply assume that to be the case in all his losses. but, maybe that's just me.
Originally posted by h1a8
In comics characters are written down to others in order to have a good fight. If one character was just 10 tons stronger than another then the stronger would manhandle the weaker like a rag doll. Because of much inconsistencies due to plot and story the best test of strength is against the control (nature).Space cheese feats could be PIS. In other words, just because a character achieved a feat doesn't make it valid.
Character's do fluctuate but you can't ignore direct comparisons, sometimes you simply realize that some showings are outliers. Once there are enough appearances though, we can accurately establish what their level is.
Also, are you implying that Masterson Thor being portrayed as Gladiator's equal in strength is an instance of him being written down? I'd find that amusing, especially since it contains the type of verbal cock stroking his fans love to bring up.
Originally posted by h1a8
Lastly, Glads strength in the comic is not static for two reasons:
1. It is based off his confidence2. It is based off the writer at the time.
But many other character's strength is based just off the writer at the time.
Gladiator's strength in comics is not much less static than other Top Tier strongmen as his confidence isn't in play except in specific situations.
Everything is always based off of what writers think, fortunately comics have and follow a continuity most of the time. That's how we know what level character's are at.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Character's do fluctuate but you can't ignore direct comparisons, sometimes you simply realize that some showings are outliers. Once there are enough appearances though, we can accurately establish what their level is.Also, are you implying that Masterson Thor being portrayed as Gladiator's equal in strength is an instance of him being written down? I'd find that amusing, especially since it contains the type of verbal cock stroking his fans love to bring up.
Gladiator's strength in comics is not much less static than other Top Tier strongmen as his confidence isn't in play except in specific situations.
Everything is always based off of what writers think, fortunately comics have and follow a continuity most of the time. That's how we know what level character's are at.
Yes, either Glads confidence wasn't at its best or he was written down. Take your pick. In comics character's levels fluctuate but not in a forum. In a forum, a character always fight at his best unless somehow weakened in battle.
Masterson can't destroy a planet with a few blows and thus he is weaker than Glads (at his best).
Direct comparisons most times don't show us who is stronger for the simple fact that speed, skill, and durability play a bigger role. A character striking another and hurting them doesn't really say if he/she is stronger, equal, or weaker.
Also, we need feats against nature to compare characters of different companies who never fought. There is no other way to compare the two.
Originally posted by h1a8
Yes, either Glads confidence wasn't at its best or he was written down. Take your pick. In comics character's levels fluctuate but not in a forum. In a forum, a character always fight at his best unless somehow weakened in battle.Masterson can't destroy a planet with a few blows and thus he is weaker than Glads (at his best).
Direct comparisons most times don't show us who is stronger for the simple fact that speed, skill, and durability play a bigger role. A character striking another and hurting them doesn't really say if he/she is stronger, equal, or weaker.
Also, we need feats against nature to compare characters of different companies who never fought. There is no other way to compare the two.
So Gladiator had to be written down or suffering from a loss of confidence when he was matched by Masterson? Lawlz.
Who's more durable, Thor or Gladiator? Who's physically stronger, Thor or Gladiator?
And out of curiosity, Gladiator has only shattered a planet once but has always been shown as equal or weaker to the elite strong men like Thor etc. What makes that one showing more valid than the rest, why isn't that scene PIS instead? I ask because in your mind as far as I can tell, there's a contradiction.
The comics I'm referencing pretty clearly illustrates a strength comparison and in general when two strong men stand there trading blows, they're rivals in strength. There's a clear distinction between a Rhino/Spider-Man fight and a Hulk/Thor fight.
I'm not getting into crossovers. I'd also like to make it clear that I don't think space cheese feats are invalid or anything, but are simply an indication of a general level. Once such a level has been established, they matter very really little when it comes to peers and characters like Thanos/Darkseid/Doomsday etc. don't even need them in the first place. You just can't seem to set boundaries and apply common sense.
This scene is the blue print in terms of how strontian abilities go. DnA put it in ink and the shyte can't possibly get much clearer. As far as marvel cosmic went the Nova Corps files were all but gospel during Abnett and Lanning's tenure.
Rich referred to it as mental focus. With that gone she was no longer at the top of her game, but as you can see even without it she's still got a degree of invulnerability. Otherwise she'd have been a bloody smear when he put knuckles to her.
I think Gladiator is strong and durable enough to last for a whole while in a fight against Thor.
While Thor has the versatility thanks to Mjolnir, he could pull off some neat tricks and take Gladiator out; but it would be still hard, because Gladiator has other clear advantages and the main one is his speed. He should be able to overpower Thor with speed alone.
Gladiator is strong and he is fast. His strenght alone would be enough to actually harm Thor, but combined with the speed he could trade a lot more punches and increase the damage tenfold, so he would have a good chance to win and I would personally vote for Gladiator, in a well written fight.
But that's not how comic books are written. I would rather expect a comic book writer to let them brawl the entire battle out. Gladiator would not use his speed at all, maybe one or two Heat Visions and Thor would not use fancy Mjolnir magic and simply smack Gladiator down with the hammer.
There Thor would probably win in the end, because the writers would probably never let him lose. Fanservice and so on.
Originally posted by Enzeru
While Thor has the versatility thanks to Mjolnir, he could pull off some neat tricks and take Gladiator out; but it would be still hard, because Gladiator has other clear advantages and the main one is his speed.
Gladiator has the clear advantage in combat speed but it's nothing Thor hasn't seen or countered before. He'd need something else such as a distraction to gain the edge with it in a typical battle. We can go all CBR and shit but that's a double edged sword.
What other clear advantages does Gladiator have over Thor?
Originally posted by Enzeru
He should be able to overpower Thor with speed alone.
Gladiator is strong and he is fast. His strenght alone would be enough to actually harm Thor, but combined with the speed he could trade a lot more punches and increase the damage tenfold, so he would have a good chance to win and I would personally vote for Gladiator, in a well written fight.But that's not how comic books are written. I would rather expect a comic book writer to let them brawl the entire battle out. Gladiator would not use his speed at all, maybe one or two Heat Visions and Thor would not use fancy Mjolnir magic and simply smack Gladiator down with the hammer.
There Thor would probably win in the end, because the writers would probably never let him lose. Fanservice and so on.
Gladiator wins in a well written fight but Thor wins because of fan-service and the writers never letting him lose? Lawlz.
Sometimes I think that even if Thor annihilated Gladiator like it was Blood and Thunder Vol. 2, people would still give the Strontian the edge.
What is it about the character?
Originally posted by dmills
This scene is the blue print in terms of how strontian abilities go. DnA put it in ink and the shyte can't possibly get much clearer. As far as marvel cosmic went the Nova Corps files were all but gospel during Abnett and Lanning's tenure.Rich referred to it as mental focus. With that gone she was no longer at the top of her game, but as you can see even without it she's still got a degree of invulnerability. Otherwise she'd have been a bloody smear when he put knuckles to her.
cool scan. 👆
that helps some. it doesn't really address my point about certain assumptions that need to be made about glads, but it's cool and i agree it goes back to the ff issue and reed's interpretation of their powerset. it also brings up quite the weakness. first radiation, now a little psionic dampening? what an ill-conceived character.... 😬
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusGladiator wins in a well written fight but Thor wins because of fan-service and the writers never letting him lose? Lawlz.
Sometimes I think that even if Thor annihilated Gladiator like it was Blood and Thunder Vol. 2, people would still give the Strontian the edge.
What is it about the character? [/B]
Well, that's simply how it is. The same thing applies for Silver Surfer VS Thor in the most recent Mighty Thor comics, where they stalemated for about 3-4 comics with just few boring shots without a clear winner in the end, but I guess you won't deny, that Silver Surfer is the superior character with much higher speed, which alone should grant him the victory, if he uses the speed.
Sentry is a much faster character then the Hulk, yet they brawled it slowly out and stalemated in the end.
It's all about speed and often also about the variety of powers. Thor should not be able to "defeat" someone like Gladiator, who has the fighting speed, since serious superspeed is one of his powers, while Thor can not move that fast.
Yeah, Thor had some cool, fast showings in the past, but that's not his regular thing. It's not his regular thing to overwhelm the enemies with 100 punches in 1 second. He simply strikes them once of twice and he can't move faster. Spider-Man for example is MUCH faster then Thor and started wearing Thor down (obviously not physically, but mentally) and Gladiator is MUCH faster then Spider-Man, so do the math what would happen if someone as fast as Gladiator starts punching Thor with a speed Thor can't react Thor.
I respect your opinion as a Thor fan, but when it comes to a logical, well written fight, then the speed of a character is always a huge advantage for him. What would make the fight still interesting is the Thor's versatility because of Mjolnir.