Thor vs Gladiator

Started by h1a844 pages

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So Gladiator had to be written down or suffering from a loss of confidence when he was matched by Masterson? Lawlz.

Who's more durable, Thor or Gladiator? Who's physically stronger, Thor or Gladiator?

And out of curiosity, Gladiator has only shattered a planet once but has always been shown as equal or weaker to the elite strong men like Thor etc. What makes that one showing more valid than the rest, why isn't that scene PIS instead? I ask because in your mind as far as I can tell, there's a contradiction.

The comics I'm referencing pretty clearly illustrates a strength comparison and in general when two strong men stand there trading blows, they're rivals in strength. There's a clear distinction between a Rhino/Spider-Man fight and a Hulk/Thor fight.

I'm not getting into crossovers. I'd also like to make it clear that I don't think space cheese feats are invalid or anything, but are simply an indication of a general level. Once such a level has been established, they matter very really little when it comes to peers and characters like Thanos/Darkseid/Doomsday etc. don't even need them in the first place. You just can't seem to set boundaries and apply common sense.

I agree with you that the feat Glads did was PIS if it wasn't for his confidence. That day Glads confidence could have been higher than any moment of his life, as alluded to in the narration.

I change my mind, Glads wasn't written down to match the strength of Thor but rather I feel that Glads wasn't the maximum amount of confident he could have been. So you are right, in a limited extent.
If a character matches another in strength as in grappling then it proves that they are near equals in that department. But matching a character in blows says nothing.

Originally posted by -Pr-
If speed was everything, the Flash would be- Oh...

That's exactly my point. And then Zoom comes along who is even faster and prevails.
If a character has the durability and the strenght and combines that with additional super speed like Gladiator can do it, then he is a major threat for Thor and there is no way Thor is stomping that opponent, since he won't be able to compete with the speed, yet comic books are written the way where every characters forgets about his advantages and then ... yeah.

Agreed. Comics tend to downplay speed advantage, because they're so overpowered..

I mean, imagine having a fight with a bullet that can just zip around you at bullet speeds. Most people can't even hit a common housefly..

Originally posted by cdtm
Most people can't even hit a common housefly..
😮

Originally posted by Damborgson
😮

Obviously, comic characters can no sweat, but that was for comparisons sake.

Speed kills, and that's why there's so much PIS when it comes to speed advantages.. No one wants to see their favorite character blitzed to death without a fight.

Originally posted by cdtm
Obviously, comic characters can no sweat, but that was for comparisons sake.

Speed kills, and that's why there's so much PIS when it comes to speed advantages.. No one wants to see their favorite character blitzed to death without a fight.

No I was talking about normal humans. Like me for instance. 😂 Damn flies.

I know! >_<

Damn flies.

Originally posted by Damborgson
No I was talking about normal humans. Like me for instance. 😂 Damn flies.

Tell me about it. Little bastards have like Milli second reaction time or some such.

YouTube video

Originally posted by dmills
Tell me about it. Little bastards have like Milli second reaction time or some such.

YouTube video

😑 Damn...

I read they can feel changes in air pressure or some shit like that so that helps them escape.

No matter. I'll just step my game up.

From this:

To this:

😎

Originally posted by Enzeru
If a character has the durability and the strenght and combines that with additional super speed like Gladiator can do it, then he is a major threat for Thor and there is no way Thor is stomping that opponent, since he won't be able to compete with the speed,

Where are you getting this from. Thor has godly reflexes and reactions. He has no problem seeing and reacting to speedsters.

In close combat Thor can swing Mjolnir round faster than light to hit speedsters. If fighting from a distance Thor can throw Mjolnir at them and Mjolnir again can travel faster than light and follow the opponent.

Then theres the fact that Thor controls the weather and can send multiple hurricanes and lightning blasts at his opponent, something even a speedster will have a hard time avoiding.

Then theres Omnidircetional blasts from Mjolnir.

So with all his versatility and godly reflexes and senses, I really dnt see why people think a Speedster with 100+ strength should be stomping Thor, or even winning based just on their speed. He's not a one trick pony like the Hulk.

Originally posted by Enzeru
yet comic books are written the way where every characters forgets about his advantages and then ... yeah.

Well sometimes. But if we take say Surfers first encounter with Thor. The sufer tried outmanouvering Mjolnir but couldn't without Loki's power fuleing him.

So the writers didnt forget about Sufer's speed. And they wernt being biased. They were just saying it as it is, that the Power Cosmic was no match for Mjolnir and Thor's godly strength.

But they did show Surfer was powerful enough to match Loki, so they gave him that much credit.

Oh and by the way, that was written by Stan Lee, who if I remember correctly has stated Surfer as his favorite (or one of his favorites at least). I dnt remember him saying that about Thor. Correct me if Im wrong.

Originally posted by Enzeru
That's exactly my point. And then Zoom comes along who is even faster and prevails.
If a character has the durability and the strenght and combines that with additional super speed like Gladiator can do it, then he is a major threat for Thor and there is no way Thor is stomping that opponent, since he won't be able to compete with the speed, yet comic books are written the way where every characters forgets about his advantages and then ... yeah.

I was actually kidding, but...

Gladiator is faster, sure, but I'm not so sure it's to the extent that it's going to be the difference between the two men in a fight.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Well, that's simply how it is. The same thing applies for Silver Surfer VS Thor in the most recent Mighty Thor comics, where they stalemated for about 3-4 comics with just few boring shots without a clear winner in the end, but I guess you won't deny, that Silver Surfer is the superior character with much higher speed, which alone should grant him the victory, if he uses the speed.

Not really, and anyone who has read comics will tell you the same. There’s no fan-service going on that prevents Thor from losing, seriously what the f*ck?

Oh does it now? No, Silver Surfer is not the superior character and whether he tries to use speed or power, his victory against Thor is not assured by any means unless their are outside circumstances. I suggest you read up on their fights before entering a discussion regarding the two.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Sentry is a much faster character then the Hulk, yet they brawled it slowly out and stalemated in the end.
It's all about speed and often also about the variety of powers. Thor should not be able to "defeat" someone like Gladiator, who has the fighting speed, since serious superspeed is one of his powers, while Thor can not move that fast.
Yeah, Thor had some cool, fast showings in the past, but that's not his regular thing. It's not his regular thing to overwhelm the enemies with 100 punches in 1 second. He simply strikes them once of twice and he can't move faster. Spider-Man for example is MUCH faster then Thor and started wearing Thor down (obviously not physically, but mentally) and Gladiator is MUCH faster then Spider-Man, so do the math what would happen if someone as fast as Gladiator starts punching Thor with a speed Thor can't react Thor.

So in your opinion, comics shouldn’t be written the way they are? I have a real hard time taking such complaints seriously as it revolves around ignoring how things operate a large majority of the time.

Thor can and has defeated beings like Gladiator, whether the Strontian relies on brute strength or raw speed, the Odinson is still the favorite. You’re so quick to mention Spider-Man, how about you acknowledge all the battles Thor has had against speedy peers where he’s been just fine?

It’s not Thor’s, Gladiator’s, Surfer’s, Superman’s, Sentry’s or anyone’s regular thing -unless they’re a pure speedster like the Flash- to overwhelm an enemy with 100 punches in 1 second.

Ask yourself this, how many times have any of those characters fought an enemy as you described? If you still don’t understand how shit works, then I can’t help you. I’m not going to waste time debating hypothetical what if’s.

Originally posted by Enzeru
I respect your opinion as a Thor fan, but when it comes to a logical, well written fight, then the speed of a character is always a huge advantage for him. What would make the fight still interesting is the Thor's versatility because of Mjolnir.

Not really. If Mjolnir’s versatility comes into play, it’s no longer an interesting fight because it’ll be over. Gladiator survives as long as he does against Thor because of his habit of fighting down to his opponents level. The Odinson can and has countered superfast beings like Gladiator, who unfortunately has never countered the type of power/versatility that Thor wields.

Originally posted by h1a8
I agree with you that the feat Glads did was PIS if it wasn't for his confidence. That day Glads confidence could have been higher than any moment of his life, as alluded to in the narration.

I change my mind, Glads wasn't written down to match the strength of Thor but rather I feel that Glads wasn't the maximum amount of confident he could have been. So you are right, in a limited extent.
If a character matches another in strength as in grappling then it proves that they are near equals in that department. But matching a character in blows says nothing.

Gladiator's confidence is always at it's peak, his power don't go up any more than that of other elite strong men (Holding back etc.), it goes down. Where in the narration was it alluded to that his confidence was higher than ever? If anything, it'd be lower than usual due to the deep conflict over the Shi'ar throne.

You need to provide some evidence for this reasoning because from where I'm standing from, it seems pretty baseless. No, most of the time it does say a great deal. When we see Superman/Captain Marvel brawling it out for an entire issue or Thor/Hulk, it's pretty obvious that they're peers in strength.

Who's stronger, Thor or Gladiator? Who's more durable, Thor or Gladiator?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Gladiator's confidence is always at it's peak, his power don't go up any more than that of other elite strong men (Holding back etc.), it goes down. Where in the narration was it alluded to that his confidence was higher than ever? If anything, it'd be lower than usual due to the deep conflict over the Shi'ar throne.

You need to provide some evidence for this reasoning because from where I'm standing from, it seems pretty baseless. No, most of the time it does say a great deal. When we see Superman/Captain Marvel brawling it out for an entire issue or Thor/Hulk, it's pretty obvious that they're peers in strength.

Who's stronger, Thor or Gladiator? Who's more durable, Thor or Gladiator?

Now you're just pogo sticking with them bro. If they haven't gotten it by now they never will.

Originally posted by h1a8
I change my mind, Glads wasn't written down to match the strength of Thor but rather I feel that Glads wasn't the maximum amount of confident he could have been.

Why would you think this? I dnt remember anything in that fight to suggest Gladiator was not fully confident.

Seems like you're just relying on Glads confidence factor to disregard any of his showings you dnt like.

Originally posted by h1a8
I change my mind, Glads wasn't written down to match the strength of Thor but rather I feel that Glads wasn't the maximum amount of confident he could have been.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Mod Ruling time: Unless specifically alluded to or mentioned in the comic, Gladiator's confidence cannot be held accountable for him losing a bout. Sometimes, getting ktfo is simply what it is.

This will be going in the character ruling thread anyways.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Who's stronger, Thor or Gladiator? Who's more durable, Thor or Gladiator?

the impression given is that gladiator is physically stronger. durability wise they're a wash.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=551447&pagenumber=11#post13462827

for anyone thats interested...

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Where are you getting this from. Thor has godly reflexes and reactions. He has no problem seeing and reacting to speedsters.

Just because he has shown it once or twice in the 60ties it does not mean that it's a standard move for him.
The regular Thor as we see him does not fight at a high speed, since he has not superspeed as one of his abilities.

Yes, he can travel faster thanks to Mjolnir and yes, he has faster reflexes then a human, but they are nowhere fast enough to tag actual speedsters on a daily basis. That's just you wanting him to.
If he can't tag Spider-Man, who moves so fast, then he won't be able to tag Gladiator / Sentry / and so on, who move faster.

We are not using PIS in fights, and a character who inflict more damage thanks to his speed advantage should and would also use it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Oh does it now? No, Silver Surfer is not the superior character and whether he tries to use speed or power, his victory against Thor is not assured by any means unless their are outside circumstances.

Actually Silver Surfer is the superior character, if you want it or not.
He has a higher powerlevel and a higher power spectrum which comes more in handy. Additionally he is even faster when it comes to travel speed and faster in terms of combat ... Yeah, you know that aswell.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So in your opinion, comics shouldn’t be written the way they are? I have a real hard time taking such complaints seriously as it revolves around ignoring how things operate a large majority of the time.

No they should not be written the way they are written, because they're often full of PIS to push to plot. Look at the WW Hulk arc. It was full of PIS and it was only there so that Hulk could go from point A to point B.

It was pure fan-service for Hulk fans and in the final battle they had to depower the Sentry to come up with a way to make the fight believable and it was still not, since Sentry did not use super speed, or radiation absorbtion, or telepathy, or BFR to stop the Hulk.

The same goes for the fight between Silver Surfer and Thor in Mighty Thor which was pure non-sense. I was really looking forward to it and what I saw was very disappointing, since nothing basically happened. Nowdays nothing happens in comic book fights.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor can and has defeated beings like Gladiator, whether the Strontian relies on brute strength or raw speed, the Odinson is still the favorite. You’re so quick to mention Spider-Man, how about you acknowledge all the battles Thor has had against speedy peers where he’s been just fine?

Of course Thor has beaten them. The reason is above and I already stated it once and also again in this post.
The characters forget about their advantages for the sake of the plot. Where is the use in a fight if the opponent has so many advantages and simply speedblitzes you, before you can even react to him?

It's basically the exact same thing like in every thread with Flash or Zoom: "NIIIIEEYYYYHHHH, FLASH STOMPS, SPIDE DUDDDD...! HE CAN PUNCH YOU ONE MILLION EXPLODING TIMES IN A NANOSECOND AND THEN IT'S OVERRRRRRRRR."
And no, I'm not kidding.

What holds Gladiator back from speedblitzing Thor into oblivion? You can try to show me scans where Thor uses his awesome superspeed (and go away with travel speed thanks to Mjolnir) to fight against people who are theoretically faster then him.
I give you a tip: Don't do it, because I will be able to show you more scans, where he gets outspeeded by his enemies.

The instance with Spider-Man was one of them. Of course Thor is in a much, much higher league then Spider-Man and most of the people Spider-Man has ever faced. Thor said that himself in that "fight", yet Spider-Man started wearing him down.
Probably not because of the damage [/i](but even the damage can start being problematic if a 10 tonner like Spider-Man hits you multiple times with a break on the same spot with his speed)[/i] ... However, probably still not because of the damage, but Thor's inability to tag Spider-Man, the humiliation, which was boosted by Spider-Man's cocky talk and so on. That can be nerve-racking.

And yeah, if he can't tag Spider-Man, then he will have problems to tag people like Gladiator and the Sentry who can move at a much higher speed and I'm not talking about travel speed.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It’s not Thor’s, Gladiator’s, Surfer’s, Superman’s, Sentry’s or anyone’s regular thing -unless they’re a pure speedster like the Flash- to overwhelm an enemy with 100 punches in 1 second.

Yet they can do it.
If someone is able to catch a bullet (boring and slow example) and travel around the glove in 3 seconds, then they can utilize that speed in combat, but they rarely ever do it, since it would be not fair for the enemies and that is a comic book reason not to let them do it.

Imagine Gladiator fighting with Thor. Gladiator has the strenght to harm Thor with mere punches, that's for sure. The opposite is also the case, but that does not matter right now.
If Gladiator would combine his speed with his strenght, he would inflict even more damage, since 3 punches hurt more then 1 punch and even these 3 punches would individually do more damage, because speed adds impact and impact adds damage.

And now check this out... If Gladiator would use his speed to circle the globe in a straight line in 3 seconds and boost his mass. The last part where he would hit Thor would be so short that Thor would not be able to react to it and he would be hit by an accelerated Gladiator, with so much impact that it would cause so much devastating damage. Thor was taken out by Nul and Angrir. While Gladiator is not as strong as Nul I suppose (and even that depends, since Gladiator's base strenght level should be higher then Hulks if he does not add strenght with rage), but still his damage combined with the speed would be enough to take Thor out.

And please don't confront me with the scan where Thor dodges a lightning fast attack on a short instance. It was like 50 years ago or something ...

And are you really comparing Superman level characters with the Flash? Dude, everything the Flash has is the speed. There is no other point for him but to strike his enemies very fast and he is still the most overpowered hero you can come up with, since basically no one besides Zoom is fast enough to do something to him in a random encounter.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Not really. If Mjolnir’s versatility comes into play, it’s no longer an interesting fight because it’ll be over. Gladiator survives as long as he does against Thor because of his habit of fighting down to his opponents level. The Odinson can and has countered superfast beings like Gladiator, who unfortunately has never countered the type of power/versatility that Thor wields.

Yes, Mjolnir's versatility is what would make the fight still interesting and probably give Thor in the end the win if he comes up with something fancy.

But seriously, what kind of stance is this:

Originally posted by Enzeru
No they should not be written the way they are written, because they're often full of PIS to push to plot.

You want to ignore the majority of comics because they don't go the way you want them to, that's a ridiculous stance.

Bookmarked, I'll reply in more detail tomorrow, still tipsy at the moment.