Galactus vs The Celestials...

Originally posted by Doon
Far-fetched as some of ZopZop's claims appear to be, he does bring up a few good points. Beings such as Odin and The Celestials are obviously light years away from that off human beings, cyborgs, etc. They're in a different league altogether. So, yes, when a member of the Council of Reeds takes out a Celestial with an entropy gun, it's hard not to notice. I understand that the entropy gun is one of the most powerful weapons in existence (it would certainly have to be); that I take no issue with. However, in the hands of Reed Richards, a mortal man, it's difficult to imagine how such a weapon could destroy a Celestial. Think about it for a minute. These aren't mere giants; they're intellectually superior beings. It should take no more than a snap of the finger to rob Reed of his superweapon and warp the entire council into frogs. That's exactly what Ashema did to Thor back in the Heroes Reborn: The Return limited series. It's just a little baffling. So when you ask, "What makes you think the 3280 Celestials aren't quite on the same level with their 616 counterparts?", well, there's that for one. Aside from the latter, I find the behavior/demeanor of the 3280 Celestials to be quite different than what we're using to seeing from Arishem and his boys. With the Earth 616 Celestials, you get the feeling that they're invincible; whereas, the 3280 breed appear to be somewhat more vulnerable.

Having said that, I get what Zop is saying when he advances the claim that a Council of Reed member, armed with a super-weapon or not, would have a hard time taking out Odin. It just wouldn't happen. Reed wouldn't even get the chance to use it. Odin is, not only one of the more powerful cosmic entities in the MU, he's also one of the wisest. He's a god for crying out loud. My thoughts.

Also, you realize Sue killed the most powerful 616 Celestial while it summoned someone to talk to her. Like... what kind of logic is this.

Originally posted by Doon
Far-fetched as some of ZopZop's claims appear to be, he does bring up a few good points. Beings such as Odin and The Celestials are obviously light years away from that off human beings, cyborgs, etc. They're in a different league altogether. So, yes, when a member of the Council of Reeds takes out a Celestial with an entropy gun, it's hard not to notice. I understand that the entropy gun is one of the most powerful weapons in existence (it would certainly have to be); that I take no issue with. However, in the hands of Reed Richards, a mortal man, it's difficult to imagine how such a weapon could destroy a Celestial. Think about it for a minute. These aren't mere giants; they're intellectually superior beings. It should take no more than a snap of the finger to rob Reed of his superweapon and warp the entire council into frogs. That's exactly what Ashema did to Thor back in the Heroes Reborn: The Return limited series. It's just a little baffling. So when you ask, "What makes you think the 3280 Celestials aren't quite on the same level with their 616 counterparts?", well, there's that for one. Aside from the latter, I find the behavior/demeanor of the 3280 Celestials to be quite different than what we're using to seeing from Arishem and his boys. With the Earth 616 Celestials, you get the feeling that they're invincible; whereas, the 3280 breed appear to be somewhat more vulnerable.

Having said that, I get what Zop is saying when he advances the claim that a Council of Reed member, armed with a super-weapon or not, would have a hard time taking out Odin. It just wouldn't happen. Reed wouldn't even get the chance to use it.

In general all of what you wrote is ascribed to PIS. By the same vein of thought, the Celestials could have entered the council chambers already combined and laid waste to all the alternate Reeds. Recall that one of the Reeds was relieved that they escaped the council chambers and that they did so before the Celestials "combined" which foreshadowed FF 603.

Anyway, Reed doesn't get owned by anyone. If he wanted to he would own Odin, and hard. I mean, he CLONED Odin's son.

Odin is, not only one of the more powerful cosmic entities in the MU, he's also one of the wisest. He's a god for crying out loud. My thoughts.

I haven't seen Odin be wise in quite some time. Headbutts, scourging earth to defeat his sequestered brother...you know the drill.

I didn't even catch this at first:

Originally posted by Doon
Odin is, not only one of the more powerful cosmic entities in the MU, he's also one of the wisest.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb

Also, you realize Sue killed the most powerful 616 Celestial while it summoned someone to talk to her. Like... what kind of logic is this.

Yeah, I wasn't thrilled when I read that either. 🙂

And BTW, it didn't summon someone to talk to her. Earth-616 Celestials sometimes take on humanoid form when they wish to converse with humans, godlings, etc. It happened during DeFalco's run on Thor as well.

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
In general all of what you wrote is ascribed to PIS. By the same vein of thought, the Celestials could have entered the council chambers already combined and laid waste to all the alternate Reeds. Recall that one of the Reeds was relieved that they escaped the council chambers and that they did so before the Celestials "combined" which foreshadowed FF 603.

Anyway, Reed doesn't get owned by anyone. If he wanted to he would own Odin, and hard. I mean, he CLONED Odin's son.

I haven't seen Odin be wise in quite some time. Headbutts, scourging earth to defeat his sequestered brother...you know the drill.

A fair and civil argument. Still, I think Reed would have quite some difficulty owning Odin. That said, I'm old school. I grew up reading Odin.. when he was ODIN. Writers have shat upon the character since then.

Originally posted by Doon
Yeah, I wasn't thrilled when I read that either. 🙂

And BTW, it didn't summon someone to talk to her. Earth-616 Celestials sometimes take on humanoid form when they wish to converse with humans, godlings, etc. It happened during DeFalco's run on Thor as well.

Same thing, actually worse if it was Exitar.

Your whole point, if you can call it that goes out the window unless you believe that Odin is more powerful than Exitar... although the point is rather pointless to begin with.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
So it either summoned someone, or it talked to her directly...

Same thing, actually worse if it was Exitar.

Your whole point, if you can call it that goes out the window unless you believe that Odin is more powerful than Exitar... although the point is rather pointless to begin with.

Like I said, I have a problem with both scenarios -- Sue's attack on Exitar as well as Reed killing a Celestial.

Originally posted by Doon
Like I said, I have a problem with both scenarios -- Sue's attack on Exitar as well as Reed killing a Celestial.

Originally posted by Doon
"What makes you think the 3280 Celestials aren't quite on the same level with their 616 counterparts?", well, there's that for one.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Yet you use Reed killing a Celestial to say they aren't on the same level while Sue killed the most powerful 616 Celestial while it was (IYO) talking to her.

Point taken. That particular issue of Fantastic Four (was it 400?) you just referenced was probably one of the first issues where an Earth-616 Celestial was physically assaulted in such a brutal manner. Prior to said issue, I'd personally never witnessed a Celestial humbled like that. For my credit, though, Tom DeFalco (author of FF#400) is known for his inconsistency when it comes to scribing character power levels. But yeah, you got me on this one.

Galactus guys are owning hard on this thread. The only way the Celestial guys can squirm out is to attack the power level of the alt Celestials. Never saw that referenced in the comic though. They didn't look any less tough than the 616s we see nowadays. Funny thing is the Odin guys are desperately wanting the Celestial guys to come through because if they don't, the implications on Odin are pretty dire. Bye-bye being equal to Galactus forever.

Originally posted by Doon
Point taken. That particular issue of Fantastic Four (was it 400?) you just referenced was probably one of the first issues where an Earth-616 Celestial was physically assaulted in such a brutal manner. Prior to said issue, I'd personally never witnessed a Celestial humbled like that. For my credit, though, Tom DeFalco (author of FF#400) is known for his inconsistency when it comes to scribing character power levels. But yeah, you got me on this one.

Thor 388 (I believe):
Thor hammered through Exitar's head
Thor Godblast destroyed a piece of Exitar that was harder than his shell

X-Factor 50:
Phoenix blew off Arishem's hand forcing it to retreat

They weren't perfect even before then. They just fought a lot of weaker people (and the infamous Skyfather scene).

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I didn't even catch this at first: Ugh. nono

Well, he did give up an eyeball to gain more wisdom. Y'know to prevent Ragnarok and Asgard from being destroyed and all....hmmm.

Wasn't Odin unable to stop Ragnorak which is why Thor had to?

Originally posted by Mindset
Wasn't Odin unable to stop Ragnorak which is why Thor had to?

Thor gave up 2 eyeballs and was willing to give up another set of balls.

Yea, I know what he did.

The point was that he ended it, not Odin.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, I know what he did.

The point was that he ended it, not Odin.

B-b-b-but, the other guy said Odin is really powerful and wise cosmic entity! *sniff*

^ take the *L*, son

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, I know what he did.

The point was that he ended it, not Odin.

I never took the two eyes as power but just gaining wisdom.
When Odin went seeking knowledge he had no idea what he had to give up... And this gave an eye or knowledge.

When Thor gave one eye and received nothing new in return is was because of he was trying to mimic Odin. To achieve his own wisdom required his own sacrifice.

I never took it as making Thor wiser than odin, Just that it required a true sacrifice to attain wisdom

Uh...ok?

Sorry I didn't mean to quote you specifically. I was more trying to discuss the overall point of one eye vs two when the cost was a sacrifice in exchange for wisdom.