Galactus vs The Celestials...

Originally posted by Utrigita
They wasn't really crapping their pants, if you look at how the actually battle played out, it went pretty much as the Celestials themselves said, the one saying Doom was indeed killed but the two others saying danger only got that. Imo given that the Celestials like Galactus have a degree of Cosmic Awarness they was most likely aware of what would happen to each of them in the coming confrontation. But that is just my take on it. It's also possible that it's their verdict on what should happen to Franklin since that they presented Galactus with a similar speech.

They were clearly afraid. It doesn't make a difference which one said "Danger" and which one said "Doom". Come on now! 😆

Here's another interesting quote taken directly from the book.

Valeria Richards: "You didn't tell me this was going to happen grandfather..THAT IT WOULD BE FRANKLIN. I thought the weapon (obviously meaning Sol's Anvil), or Galactus, or --"

Originally posted by Doon
They were clearly afraid. It doesn't make a difference which one said "Danger" and which one said "Doom". Come on now! 😆

Based on them saying "Danger" and "Doom"? If they was clearly afraid regarding their confrontation with Franklin then why on earth did they come back to fight him?

Originally posted by Utrigita
Based on them saying "Danger" and "Doom"? If they was clearly afraid regarding their confrontation with Franklin then why on earth did they come back to fight him?

I never said they were cowards, but they clearly recognized him as a serious threat before the fight even started.

Originally posted by Doon
I never said they were cowards, but they clearly recognized him as a serious threat before the fight even started.

Seeing someone as a threat and being afraid of them is to seperate things. The Celestials also saw Galactus as a threat, that haven't automatically propel the Celestials into being afraid of him.

Originally posted by zopzop
How could they (the Rogue Celestials) be in total fear of young Franklin/adult Franklin before they combined powers, yet adult Franklin + young Franklin's combined power was unable to take out the 3 remaining Rogue Celestials without rezzing/awakening Galactus?

They were crapping their pants screaming about "Doom" and "Universal level reality shaper" regarding just one of the Franklin's individually.

Originally posted by Utrigita
While I agree with you ODG (based on what we have seen and been told so far), I also think we might as well wait until 605 before jumping into a huge debate over it, when the circumstances can all change with a single issue. I mean with the preview for 604 many was "OMG Franklin just killed 3 Celestials with a wave of his hand" while in reality he would lose against them. So again imo lets wait and see.

... from within Galactus' hands. Unless Franklin blitzed the last Mad Celestial and then decided to teleport to within Galactus' hands and hide until Galactus opens them... he perished. And it's pretty obvious that's what happened.

Frankling not beind dead would literally require him to be some attention whore who wanted everyone to think he was dead, milked the long pregnant moments after the last Mad Celestial's destruction and somehow got Galactus to hide him.

^ Tbh, I don't understand how Franklin dying is even in question. Hickman blatantly spelled it out for us...

"Look at the one who would SACRIFICE HIMSELF so that we all might live."

It doesn't get any clearer. Franklin died. Galactus resurrected him. To me, this is '1+1=?' type stuff. ermm

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That's fine but I don't get it. How is Franklin's death in doubt at all? He flew in to the last Celestial and a huge explosion occurred. Well after the flash of the explosion subsided -- during which Nathaniel exhorted his selfless sacrifice and his family mourns his heroism -- finally, he reappears...

... from within Galactus' hands. Unless Franklin blitzed the last Mad Celestial and then decided to teleport to within Galactus' hands and hide until Galactus opens them... he perished. And it's pretty obvious that's what happened.

Frankling not beind dead would literally require him to be some attention whore who wanted everyone to think he was dead, milked the long pregnant moments after the last Mad Celestial's destruction and somehow got Galactus to hide him.

As I said I agree with you, my post was (I might have mentioned Franklin) more in general towards restrain in regards as to what happened with the unknown factors like Galactus future role, what actually happened to Galactus when he was attacked by the combined Celestial and that kinda jazz.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Tbh, I don't understand how Franklin dying is even in question. Hickman blatantly spelled it out for us...

"Look at the one who would SACRIFICE HIMSELF so that we all might live."

It doesn't get any clearer. Franklin died. Galactus resurrected him. To me, this is '1+1=?' type stuff. ermm

"Look at the one who would SACRIFICE HIMSELF so that we all might live."

Again, essentially what that means is.. look at this person who would be willing to risk his life for us. That's all it means really. And he did risk his life. And from the look on the faces of his friends and family, they were obviously concerned that he might not make it. It was revealed, however, that he did manage to survive.

It doesn't matter if he died in the act or not though. Both Galactus (who also died before) and Franklin were still alive (before AF went for the killing blow). That said, I would think the last Celestial could have very well been defeated if the two combined their efforts against him. So it stands to reason that Franklin just decided to end the fight quickly by taking the Celestial out Superman-style.

Before you were saying that Adult Franklin had to kill himself in order to stop the last Celestial, but that's where I disagree. It was two against one. Franklin was still in the game. Galactus was still in the game. Perhaps they were both somewhat spent, but the odds were still good. Franklin clearly made a decision to stop playing and finish this once and for all.

Seriously? Here's the entire scene:

If you cannot discern the obvious fact that Frank died (from both the narration and artistic depictions used), then you should take up another hobby. This is as black and white as it gets.

^ 👆

Originally posted by Utrigita
As I said I agree with you, my post was (I might have mentioned Franklin) more in general towards restrain in regards as to what happened with the unknown factors like Galactus future role, what actually happened to Galactus when he was attacked by the combined Celestial and that kinda jazz.

Originally posted by Galan007
Seriously? Here's the entire scene:

If you cannot discern the obvious fact that Frank died (from both the narration and artistic depictions used), then you should take up another hobby. This is as black and white as it gets.

No, this is.

And yet, some, like yourself, claim that Galactus wasn't killed. Interesting.

Like I said, though, it doesn't matter if both AF and Galactus died at some point. My point is that Adult Franklin didn't necessarily have to do the Superman-like move to finish the last Celestial. He chose to do it. He and Galactus were still in the game. Two against one. He just chose to finish it quickly. Whether he died in the act or not is moot.

No idea why you posted an entirely irrelevant scan..?

Anywho, I doubt very highly that Franklin would have resorted to committing suicide just to destroy the final Celestial, unless he absolutely had to. He killed himself so that ALL may live--that was the moral of the story.

That is the last I will say on the matter.

Originally posted by Galan007
Because adult Franklin possessed greater power than any of them individually, but not all 3 of them together. That much was stated/shown.

This is pretty much what I've been saying you realize?

Originally posted by Galan007
No idea why you posted an entirely irrelevant scan..?

Anywho, I doubt very highly that Franklin would have resorted to committing suicide just to destroy the final Celestial, unless he absolutely had to. He killed himself so that ALL may live--that was the moral of the story.

That is the last I will say on the matter.

So you don't think a combined effort on the part of Adult Franklin and Galactus would be enough to beat the final Celestial? Seriously? It's obvious that Franklin made a choice to finish the fight quickly. Otherwise, that would mean both Franklin and Galactus were completely drained of power (unlikely) or that the final Celestial was far more powerful than the rest of his crew, a notion you already shot down.

^ You're forgetting that Galactus got blasted by the Celestial and was down. However momentarily, he was down. Franklin, on his own and drained of power, clearly had only one option: suicide.

That's how I read it, at least.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ You're forgetting that Galactus got blasted by the Celestial and was down. However momentarily, he was down. Franklin, on his own and drained of power, clearly had only one option: suicide.

That's how I read it, at least.

Didn't forget. Just assumed that Galactus, despite taking a direct hit, was still in the game. And Franklin also wasn't entirely drained of power. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been able to take down the last Celestial with that crazy, selfless move. Had a weaker opponent done the same thing, the Celestial wouldn't have even been phased by it. Again, I just think he didn't want to take anymore chances, opting to end the fight quickly, even if it put his own life in danger. I suppose we can just agree to disagree.

^ After the Celestial blasts Galactus, we don't see him again until he resurrects Frank--don't think he was meant to still be 'in the game' when Frank killed himself. /shrug

And I didn't mean Frank was totally drained of all power. I just meant that his powers were substantially less than what they'd previously been.

Personally, I think both Galactus and Franklin both perish if they didn't cooperate, just like in those other alternate time loops.