Originally posted by Galan007
Imo it's clear that Galactus is NOT Franklin's pet herald, but rather, a mutual partner. The "union" they spoke of interests me as well--apparently Frank and Galactus will merge/fuse/combine/amalgamate in the distant future..?
Wow, the ascension of Franklin as the co-shepherd of the current universe and co-architect of the next one. Pretty heady role.
Originally posted by zopzop
Genius it's not IMPLIED power if the character is telling you "we stand no chance against this being" or "he's transfinite levels of power above us". There was no "if" or "mabye" or "perhaps", that was the writer speaking through the character of Kubik. Nothing was implied, it was stated straight up, Celestials are more powerful than Cube Beings.Implied power would be with beings like Order/Chaos/Hate/Love etc.. that have done nothing with themselves at all and yet people still claim they are powerful because of their place in the cosmic hierarchy. In the case of the Celestials/Cube Beings the writer made it clear as day which was more powerful. They didn't even attempt to fight the Celestial or defend themselves because they'd know they'd lose.
EDIT :
Just for you, the definition of implied :
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/impliedIt was DIRECTLY stated by Kubik not once but twice (just in that issue alone, he also said this in a previous issue) that Celestials > Cube Beings.
My point is that you stated that fights trump all feats. When challenged to supply evidence of anything higher than a lowly sky-father, you came up with this non-fight statement. The fight never happened and thus you are reduced to, again, using the asgardian destroyer as the trump card for the celestials. Hardly convincing at all. Unless you are going to contradict yourself and edit your statement that fights trump all.
And ANY future version of a character is by definition only ONE of the many possible versions. If you can't understand this, I feel sorry for you. SO again, aside from these Rogue Alternate Reality Celestials, who has Adult Franklin fought against?
No, that's in real life theoretical physics. In comics it's whatever the writer intends, or whatever is confirmed on panel. Your inability to distinguish real-life scientific applications from sequentially illustrated panels containing script on fictional stories is not my concern at all. Not to mention the point further that 616 Adult Franklin goes back in time to fight for 616 Reed. Or you seriously think that your logic of an alternate reality future Franklin Richards traveling back in time to save the canon 616 Reed Richards, addressing him as father, missing his father, etc. has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that in a story full of alternate reeds on every single page for 20 issues, future franklin never gave a damn about a single one of them?
It was all but stated ON PANEL by Nathaniel Richards that the Adult Franklin is 616 Franklin "THIS IS WHO YOUR SON WILL BECOME"
I mean, you're unable to grasp that? If you aren't, I really don't care. Go deal with it.
Not to mention this "theory" of yours is further undermined by today's issue of FF.
Originally posted by Galan007
Imo it's clear that Galactus is NOT Franklin's pet herald, but rather, a mutual partner. The "union" they spoke of interests me as well--apparently Frank and Galactus will merge/fuse/combine/amalgamate in the distant future..?
Yeah, the whole "to me my Galactus" bit was more of a 1-time thing, but opinions were refrained until today's issue was released.
Hickman already incorporated fraction's notion that the Galactus Seed contains the next Galactus...so 616 Galactus and 616 Franklin will be/turn into/conjoin/merge into who knows what. Maybe they themselves become the next iteration of the universe and the Galactus Seed cracks open and the next Galactus comes out. Who knows.
The unfortunate thing is that Hickman has basically scripted the ultimate fate for Franklin and Galactus, but odds are that will never come to fruition unless Marvel gets a DC-style reboot and they use the implications of the Franklin/Galactus pages as a jumping off point.
Most likely some other writer will come along and retcon this, or it will just be ignored/forgotten entirely.
But I did love the ending of the book. From the ashes of the "Council of Reeds" arises the "Parliament of Doom."
Young Val is a lying little one.
Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
My point is that you stated that fights trump all feats. When challenged to supply evidence of anything higher than a lowly sky-father, you came up with this non-fight statement. The fight never happened and thus you are reduced to, again, using the asgardian destroyer as the trump card for the celestials. Hardly convincing at all. Unless you are going to contradict yourself and edit your statement that fights trump all.No, that's in real life theoretical physics. In comics it's whatever the writer intends, or whatever is confirmed on panel. Your inability to distinguish real-life scientific applications from sequentially illustrated panels containing script on fictional stories is not my concern at all. Not to mention the point further that 616 Adult Franklin goes back in time to fight for 616 Reed. Or you seriously think that your logic of an alternate reality future Franklin Richards traveling back in time to save the canon 616 Reed Richards, addressing him as father, missing his father, etc. has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that in a story full of alternate reeds on every single page for 20 issues, future franklin never gave a damn about a single one of them?
It was all but stated ON PANEL by Nathaniel Richards that the Adult Franklin is 616 Franklin "THIS IS WHO YOUR SON WILL BECOME"
I mean, you're unable to grasp that? If you aren't, I really don't care. Go deal with it.
Not to mention this "theory" of yours is further undermined by today's issue of FF.
Awesome post.. Best post I have seen anywhere on a comics forum in a long time. You have my seal of approval!
Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
Yeah, the whole "to me my Galactus" bit was more of a 1-time thing, but opinions were refrained until today's issue was released.Hickman already incorporated fraction's notion that the Galactus Seed contains the next Galactus...so 616 Galactus and 616 Franklin will be/turn into/conjoin/merge into who knows what. Maybe they themselves become the next iteration of the universe and the Galactus Seed cracks open and the next Galactus comes out. Who knows.
The unfortunate thing is that Hickman has basically scripted the ultimate fate for Franklin and Galactus, but odds are that will never come to fruition unless Marvel gets a DC-style reboot and they use the implications of the Franklin/Galactus pages as a jumping off point.
Most likely some other writer will come along and retcon this, or it will just be ignored/forgotten entirely.
But I did love the ending of the book. From the ashes of the "Council of Reeds" arises the "Parliament of Doom."
Young Val is a lying little one.
Yet I think it's important to remember just how the Seed have been mentioned by Galactus and that was as a Celestial mistake, something that wasn't meant to happen. However the various implication that can be drawn from Franklin and Galactus makes most of what will happen with the two in the next universe guess work. Atleast imo.
And more like Scheming little one.
and my two fave galactus brethren
celestial mistake?
interesting
celestials make another galactus
and tell me how does eternity fit into this
prolly never b explained just as both of their roles in the hierarchy
and tiamut led the 616 celestials into a battle guess which one
and i know u both are reading the thor/deviant saga and await the brand new eternals series
😛
Originally posted by guy222
and my two fave galactus brethrencelestial mistake?
interesting
celestials make another galactus
and tell me how does eternity fit into this
prolly never b explained just as both of their roles in the hierarchy
and tiamut led the 616 celestials into a battle guess which one
and i know u both are reading the thor/deviant saga and await the brand new eternals series
😛
Just something that popped into my head 🙂
I think Galactus said something about Eternity seeking to ... something. But then again the wording Celestial and Eternity can have a entirely different meaning then a actual reference to the Celestials and Eternity.
I must honestly admit that I isn't atm. Is it worth following friend?
Originally posted by Galan007
Imo it's clear that Galactus is NOT Franklin's pet herald, but rather, a mutual partner. The "union" they spoke of interests me as well--apparently Frank and Galactus will merge/fuse/combine/amalgamate in the distant future..?
The way its all worded, it seems that Franklin is destined to become the Galacti of the new reality, once this one ends.
Earth X
Originally posted by UtrigitaI don't think Celestial means actual Celestials because really.
Just something that popped into my head 🙂I think Galactus said something about Eternity seeking to ... something. But then again the wording Celestial and Eternity can have a entirely different meaning then a actual reference to the Celestials and Eternity.
I must honestly admit that I isn't atm. Is it worth following friend?
However, "Eternity seeking to fix something that isn't flawed" seems like he's talking about Eternity.
Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
My point is that you stated that fights trump all feats. When challenged to supply evidence of anything higher than a lowly sky-father, you came up with this non-fight statement. The fight never happened and thus you are reduced to, again, using the asgardian destroyer as the trump card for the celestials. Hardly convincing at all. Unless you are going to contradict yourself and edit your statement that fights trump all.
There's nothing to edit. The WRITER made it clear, not once but on two separate occasions, that Celestials > Cube Beings. If someone straight up TELLS you, not suggests or implies, that they are NO match for someone and HAMMERS that point across, then you take their word for it. In that very issue, Kubik TOLD Kosmos, "They'd CRUSH you, I once did".
No, that's in real life theoretical physics. In comics it's whatever the writer intends, or whatever is confirmed on panel. Your inability to distinguish real-life scientific applications from sequentially illustrated panels containing script on fictional stories is not my concern at all. Not to mention the point further that 616 Adult Franklin goes back in time to fight for 616 Reed. Or you seriously think that your logic of an alternate reality future Franklin Richards traveling back in time to save the canon 616 Reed Richards, addressing him as father, missing his father, etc. has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that in a story full of alternate reeds on every single page for 20 issues, future franklin never gave a damn about a single one of them?It was all but stated ON PANEL by Nathaniel Richards that the Adult Franklin is 616 Franklin "THIS IS WHO YOUR SON WILL BECOME"
I mean, you're unable to grasp that? If you aren't, I really don't care. Go deal with it.
Not to mention this "theory" of yours is further undermined by today's issue of FF.
Not really, future versions of any character are BY DEFINITION just one out of an infinite number of possible outcomes. It's not my fault Hickman is an idiot :
Originally posted by zopzopThere's nothing to edit. The WRITER made it clear, not once but on two separate occasions, that Celestials > Cube Beings. If someone straight up TELLS you, not suggests or implies, that they are NO match for someone and HAMMERS that point across, then you take their word for it. In that very issue, Kubik TOLD Kosmos, "They'd CRUSH you, I once did".
So your absolute statement that fights>>>all other proof is in fact exposed to be just front-running BS. That, or you should say "fights trump all except when statements conveniently take the place of fights"
Not really, future versions of any character are BY DEFINITION just one out of an infinite number of possible outcomes. It's not my fault Hickman is an idiot :
^I have no idea where the scan comes from. If it comes from Hickman himself, then you have a point.....but if not.....
....in what reality do you live in where the writings of one person automatically take precedence of the writings of another. Particularly in said person's story.
So, if you write, in your own story, that you are God...and I write, in my own story, that I can prove that I am God (through Reed Richards-like empirical evidence), well then damn, according to your logic, you are an idiot since my story is "right" and yours is wrong.
It doesn't matter if another writer "proved" that time travel does x y or z. he "proved" it IN THE CONTEXT OF HIS OWN STORY.
Hickman, nor any other writer, is not, and has never been beholden to the the "rules" of another writer's stories.
Hickman intended adult Franklin to be 616. He literally all but stated it on panel. I don't care if you have a problem with it, but don't use some sophomoric argument as "well he's wrong because i found someone else who knows hickman's story better than hickman himself" BS. You disagreed with the writer's statements and intent. Too bad for you since he portrayed exactly what he wanted to. Tweet hickman those scans and force him to re-write his story in accordance with kang's third law.
Then, post his response to you in this thread.
Originally posted by Galan007
Imo it's clear that Galactus is NOT Franklin's pet herald, but rather, a mutual partner. The "union" they spoke of interests me as well--apparently Frank and Galactus will merge/fuse/combine/amalgamate in the distant future..?
Umm.. it was already CLEARLY STATED IN ENGLISH that Galactus is his herald. Obviously, this bothers you for some reason. Get over it. Maybe it will get retconned at some point if that makes you feel better.
And incidentally, in the opening of FF# 16, it's also stated that Doom stayed behind "sacrificing" himself, and yet we see that Doom is still alive. This proves another point I made earlier that just because the word sacrifice is used does not indicate an actual death took place. Sometimes, as in this instance, it can be used to make readers assume that a death occurred before the truth is revealed.
Originally posted by "Id"
The way its all worded, it seems that Franklin is destined to become the Galacti of the new reality, once this one ends.
Well, Galactus will be still around as well unless something happens to him at some point. So, it actually looks like both of them will be the last survivors of this universe.
Originally posted by DoonMy word you like to troll me.
Umm.. it was already CLEARLY STATED IN ENGLISH that Galactus is his herald. Obviously, this bothers you for some reason. Get over it.
Galactus is obviously NOT Frank's herald in the "servant" sense that we're used to--it's more of a willing partnership. That's all I'm saying. If you'd hop off Frank's bone for a sec you might see that I'm not trying to demean him in any way/shape/form.
Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
So your absolute statement that fights>>>all other proof is in fact exposed to be just front-running BS. That, or you should say "fights trump all except when statements conveniently take the place of fights"
Uhm, we were TOLD by the character (hence the writer) that Cube Beings < Celestials. That's not IMPLIED. It doesn't get anymore clear than that.
^I have no idea where the scan comes from. If it comes from Hickman himself, then you have a point.....but if not.........in what reality do you live in where the writings of one person automatically take precedence of the writings of another. Particularly in said person's story.
So, if you write, in your own story, that you are God...and I write, in my own story, that I can prove that I am God (through Reed Richards-like empirical evidence), well then damn, according to your logic, you are an idiot since my story is "right" and yours is wrong.
It doesn't matter if another writer "proved" that time travel does x y or z. he "proved" it IN THE CONTEXT OF HIS OWN STORY.
Hickman, nor any other writer, is not, and has never been beholden to the the "rules" of another writer's stories.
Hickman intended adult Franklin to be 616. He literally all but stated it on panel. I don't care if you have a problem with it, but don't use some sophomoric argument as "well he's wrong because i found someone else who knows hickman's story better than hickman himself" BS. You disagreed with the writer's statements and intent. Too bad for you since he portrayed exactly what he wanted to. Tweet hickman those scans and force him to re-write his story in accordance with kang's third law.
Then, post his response to you in this thread.
In other words, IMPLIED (and hence means nothing) not outright stated (like the example I provided regarding the Cube Beings/Celestials)? Thanks for proving my point.
Originally posted by Galan007
My word you like to troll me.Galactus is obviously NOT Frank's herald in the "servant" sense that we're used to--it's more of a willing partnership. That's all I'm saying. If you'd hop off Frank's bone for a sec you might see that I'm not trying to demean him in any way/shape/form.
Bottom line is that Galactus is or was Franklin's herald. Otherwise, the word "herald" would never have been used in the first place. You're desperately trying in vain to make sense out of something that really requires no speculation. It was stated in black and white. And Big G did "serve" FR in the sense that he immediately came to his assistance against the Celestials.
And FYI, you're the one who keeps bringing this up, showing that you clearly have a problem with the change in status quo affecting your beloved namesake.
