Satale Shan and Darth Malgus vs The Sith Emperor

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Powerful enough to resurrect Darth Maul

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine's generated far stronger lightning than Galen, and far more. Yeah, no reason to suspect he'd do otherwise

And that AT AT was defenseless too.

AT-AT is a giant machine and more resistant than an ordinary human.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Show us or post the quote.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine, in Empire's End, effortlessly obliterated Rayf Ysanna and mortally wounded Brand with Force Lightning. And he was at his weakest

Originally posted by Lightsnake
'Made a joke?' He died and failed to do any lasting harm.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine was playing him until the end

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine's lightning killed him. Palpatine killed him.
'Galen sacrificed himself' and 'Palpatine killed him' are not mutually exclusive

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
where was this from the book, dare I ask?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yeah, not of those are 'concentration' feats.

1. Anakin gave in to the Dark Side. That's far from concentration
2. Bane didn't concentrate. He lashed out with a desperate burst
3. The Zabrak just used TK
4. Nihilus just ate the planet

Originally posted by Lightsnake
So does your precious Emperor

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And none of it is stronger, so what? there's nothing indicating force lightning varies on color. Good lord, even Hetton in Rule of Two had a 'unique' color.' Most all of the Sith in Karpyshyn's novels have 'purple' lightning

Darth Bane produced Voilet-Blue Force Lightning.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Do I care what your point was? You're wrong. He WAS taking him lightly at first

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yeah. And a force push is a surge of energy.

Keep your tricks to yourself.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yes, he very well could have.

Lord Vitiate crushed the resistance of many powerful individuals with just his telepathic abilities.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Notice how he broke their will with the Dark Side. Hell, a dying command to Mara stayed with her long after he was dead.

They were not Palpatine's opponents in the first place and they were fresh individuals when Palpatine found them. Yes, he maintained some level of telepathic grip on them. Force bonding may have helped him.

Lord Vitiate crushed the defenses of properly trained and experienced opponents, telepathically re-programmed their minds, and turned them in to his mental slaves. There is a difference.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What does this have anything to do with the defensive abilities against Force Lightning?

Lord Vitiate crushed the defenses of properly trained and experienced opponents, telepathically re-programmed their minds, and turned them in to his mental slaves. There is a difference.

Oh, and Cronal did it to Kar Vastor

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Galen Marek disabled an AT-AT with his Force Lightning. All troops inside the large machine also died in the process. To me, this is more impressive feat.

I'm not sure what you're point is. Galen Marek is one of the most powerful characters in Star Wars history. A comparison to him is never going to make a Jedi/Sith look weak. However, we know that Galens Force Lightning is inferior to Sidious' because Galen was unable to defeat Darth Vader with it when he hit him whereas Sidious' Force Lightning was able to easily kill him. Also we know that Galen is inferior to the Emperor because he was described as being 'no match for the Emperor', as well as because his lightning never reached intensities sufficient to turn an opponent into ash.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Killing ordinary troops with Force Lightning is no big deal.

Both myself and JediSilver have called you on this. You do not become resistent to Force Lighting merely by being Force User. It is not about the people he killed, it is about the size of the attack and how much power he would have had to have produced to kill that many people at once. Theres also the skill that he showed by not killing his own people with it, bending the lightning around them.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Good. It is a very impressive feat.

Sure.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
There are other techniques; Force immunity and Force Barrier. Both of these increase your resistance against energy based attacks.

And both of them need to be actually consciously used to be effective. We do not assume that they are being used whenever a character is hit by Lightning.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is so intense that it can rip through the defences of powerful Jedi and Sith and incinerate them.

That isn't proof genius. Theres nothing that states that purple lightning is more powerful than blue lightning at all.

Plus as I showed, Sidious also has purple lightning.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Galen Marek found Vader a challenging opponent. I doubt that he alone stands a chance against Lord Vitiate. He will end up like Revan.

Well thats because Darth Vader is incredibly powerful. Being 80% as powerful as Darth Sidious is nothing to sneeze at.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Also, Galen made a joke out of palpatine. Here is how;

1. Galen blocked his Force lightning with bare hands.
2. Let his guard down for a moment to perform a Force attack to kill the troops pursuing his friends while simultaneously holding Sidious. Tolerated all that pain in the process even with his guard down.
3. Then he strode towards Palpatine and engulfed him with his own Force lightning. Palpatine also felt immense pain.

Well thats, uh, like, your opinion man. /thedude

But its wrong. Galen was ultimately unable to to defeat Palpatine. That you think he made a joke out of him is irrelevent because he didn't. He surprised the Emperor and showed himself to be stronger than he had imagined.

Also:

"No!" the apprentice cried, dropping his defenses to strike one last time at the Imperials. Energy surged through him. He felt as though a star had blazed to life in his chest. Driven by concern for his friends rather than himself, he embraced the Force completely, utterly, and was rewarded with strength that made his efforts with the dark side look like those of a child. His nerves were on fire. Streamers of light radiated from his skin. His bones glowed like radiant lava.

Galen was in a state of onenness with the Force at that point (A similar state to what Jacen did at the end of The Unifying Force) and was drawing on so much power it made his time as a Sith look like the playing of a child.

And he still did nothing more than singe Sidious' cloak.

Do you understand?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
However, Galen decided to sacrifice himself. There is no proof that Sidious could have subdued him. Galen may have taken Palpatine down with his own Force Lightning. The author saved the imagine of Palpatine by bending the story arc like that.

Do you think if he could he would have commited suicide if he felt he could defeat Sidious, or even have gotten away from him? No, Galen Marek was ultimately Sidious' inferior and had no chance in a serious fight against him. Which says a hell of alot about Sidious' power considering how immensely powerful Marek was.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes, I know this. But he has his limits too. Still he proved that blocking Sidious's Force Lightning is not an impossible feat. Something that Galen proved later on.

EVERY. CHARACTER. HAS. LIMITS. I do not need you to tell me that. You think Vitiate does not? You think Revan does not? You saying he has limits does not diminish the fact that Yoda is incredibly powerful and would kick Revan's shit in. I've never said that blocking Sidious' lightning was impossible. But Sidious' lightning is undoubtable one of, if not the most powerful version of the technique that exist, and blocking it would be an extremely difficult and debilitating thing to do.

And again, he's ****ing Galen Marek! He's one of the most overpowered characters ever. Galen being able to block Sidious' Force Lightning is not an indication that anyone can do it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Those who are well-versed in the ways of the Force can use defensive techniques to protect themselves. Nothing here to prove.

They can. We do not assume that they do in all cases.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Also, killing a creature with Force Lightning is nothing unique. Galen has done this several times. However, there are a few creatures who can even tolerate Force Lightning assaults.

Fail.

Killing a creature with Force Lightning is no different than killing a Jedi with it.

You are UberFail incarnate.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And yet he found Darth Vader a challenging opponent whose feats do not compare either? Seriously, come up with better arguments next time. The strength of a Jedi is evaluated on the basis of performance in combat and not just other feats.

Oh please. Starkiller having trouble with Darth Vader does nothing to prove that he is weak and only proves that Darth Vader is far more powerful than you give him credit for. You seem to have an unusual bias against Vader and constantly seem to see him as weak and pathetic. Kindly change that opinion because it is objectively wrong.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Moving that Star Destroyer is an incredible feat. However, Galen properly concentrated when he performed that feat. Any powerful Jedi can perform amazing feats with proper concentration.

Unfortunately, the circumstances of combat are different. In combat situation, the mind of a Jedi or Sith is heavily occupied.

Not on that scale or level of power.

Not always. A character can give themselves time to concentrate and put alot of space between them and their opponent to do so. Look at the Sidious vs Yoda fight. Sidious managed to put plenty of room between he and Yoda to give himself the opportunity to concentrate and attack him with TK. Or the first Luke vs Vader fight where Vader focuses and attacks Luke with TK as well. Dooku vs Yoda, both are clearly concentrating on using the Force on each other. Or Bane vs Sirak. I can go on if you'd like.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
See above. Galen has performed comparable feats several times. He even brought down a much larger creature with his Force Lightning. And he still failed to subdue Darth Vader (a powerful Sith Lord) with his Force Lightning.

1) Galen has never turned anything to ash with his lightning.

2) Galen Mother****ing Marek is incredibly powerful.

3) But Sidious did kill Vader with his Force Lightning where Marek failed, thus proving that his Lightning is more powerful.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
She heard all about him from Kriea. And she also fought him. Is this not enough?

No its not. She only fought a weakened Nihilus, and since she could not sense his power, you have absolutely no argument to prove that Revan > Nihilus

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Lightning contains energy. Still Galen' Force Lightning did not work against Darth Vader, a powerful Sith Lord.

Darkside energy. And yeah it didn't. But Sidious' did.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Lightning contains energy. The Jedi summon it using the Force.

The Force is comparable to regular energy now?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes, Darth Vader has much higher resistance to Lightning that a regular combatant. However, he is not Lightning-proof. Sidious proved this.

And yet you still doubt Sidious' power.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are obviously wrong. The energies in the Force Lightning produced by Lord Nyriss and Lord Vitiate are of different intensity. They radiated different color then standard Blue.

You still have not prove that merely being a different color makes them more powerful.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You forgot the Anakin factor.

No I didn't.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yoda was not an opponent that he would have taken lightly.

Did you even watch that fight? Sidious was at several points overcome with hysterical laughter and not paying any attention to Yoda. I think that proves that he was not overly worried, and was extremely overconfident. Overconfidence is Palpatines weakness, remember?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That was not a Force push. It was a powerful surge of energy.

The nature of Force push is different. Darth Bane did Force pushed Kas'im before. The latter responded in the same coin by sending Bane packing outside the entrance of the Temple.

Learn to differentiate between the two.

Later on Bane attacks Raskta with a Force Push that was stated would kill her if it it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You have owned no one.

Ordinary people are cannon fodder in Star Wars.

Show me an example of Sidious dominating a powerful opponent in with his telepathic abilities in the same manner as Lord Vitiate did.

It is not given that Sidious is top at every ability. He is not.

So ****ing what? If someone can kill millions to billions of cannon fodder at once is that not still an impressive? Of course it is. That level of scale is far about anything Vitiate has done. Particularly as Vitiate 'dominated' those Sith Lords in an unconfirmed legend, and that as Revan proved he relies on his opponents being unprepared against his mental assault. Prove first that he even performed that feat, as it happened in a legend that even Nyriss admitted she couldn't prove and that she wasn't sure that it was true, and then prove that those Sith Lords resisted Vitiates mental domination in anyway. Because if they did not, then they were just as much cannon fodder as the millions Sidious dominated.

Sidious dominated Luke Skywalker with it and turned him to the dark side in Dark Empire. In the audio book this is so intense that Luke screams.

He is still Vitiates superior.

Lightsnake
Oh, and Cronal did it to Kar Vastor

Neph, your slaying of the infidel will likely be LeGenDary.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
"What feats do they have?"
"They resurrected Darth Maul"
"How does THAT mean anything?!"

Were they adept in Tutaminis Like Yoda, Revan, Galen, and Satele?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The more powerful you are, the more resistance you can muster.

For example:

Meetra Surik was a powerful Jedi. But her mastery in Tutaminis was not on the scale of Revan'. She stood no chance against Nyriss' signature Force Lightning (a swirling storm of pure dark side energy) but Revan did.

Get the point?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
These three were very strong in the Force

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Did he destroy an AT AT walker? AT ST yes.
Palpatine produced a burst that killed a room full of men with no discernible effort and his force lightning killed Galen

A stream of Sith lightning put the AT-AT itself out of action, and a good, solid shove tipped it over with a crash, providing cover for the Wookiees when the time came to cross.

The quartet had already started firing at stormtroopers converging on the scene. A furious exchange of blasterfire painted the air thick with energy. The apprentice deflected anything headed his way as he hacked into the side of the AT-AT and dropped into its munitions bay. The crew within was no threat, killed by the lightning, but he was careful not to knock any of the charges in case their contents had become unstable. He didn't want it to blow up just yet.

Look at the size of AT-AT:

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Fascinating. So has Palpatine

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And who did the killing? Palpatine

Vader to Palpatine: "He is dead."

Palpatine to Vader: "Then he is now more powerful than ever. He was meant to root out the rebels... But his sacrifice will only inspire them."

Source: TFU graphic comic

Galen killed himself.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's stated Galen was no match for him. Too bad, so sad. Palpatine could have killed Galen and chose to manipulate him.

Prior to sacrifice, this happened:-

Palpatine blasts Galen with Force Lightning:

Galen is back on his feet, lifts Palpatine with the Force, and sends him packing with a Force push:

Sidious did not WTFpwned Galen with simple gestures.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
In the Dark Side ending, he casually owns him at the end

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I like how you ignore the novel states Galen felt a star igniting in his chest from the overwhelming power. He died by absorbing and taking the lightning into himself and releasing the energy. Palpatine was unharmed

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I said where

The apprentice felt himself leaving his body again. Or was his body leaving him this time? He felt ripped apart by the energy that had flowed through him. Every cell was in shock; every fiber shook. The fire on his face possessed no heat at all. His limbs felt as distant as the farthest arms of the galaxy. He was amazed there was enough left of him to think at all.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Except most of those were desperate or angry bursts

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine is still his superior. Death Star, The New Essential Chronology and Darth Vader confirm that.
Hell, so does the Plagueis excerpt.

Also, if you go by the SWTCE; Yoda is the most powerful Jedi. Even more powerful then Luke Skywalker. Willing to accept this?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's an aesthetic, nothing more. Hetton used indigo lightning. Plo Koon used green.
Bane uses violet. From Dynasty of Evil:
"Sith sorcery was as much a part of the dark side as the deadly violet bolts
of energy her Master unleashed from his hands,"
Page 131 btw

Also, Lord Nyriss' signature Force Lightning has been described like this:

Revan knew he was gathering his power to unleash a swirling storm of pure dark side energy, just as Nyriss had done.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
not there he didn't

Originally posted by Lightsnake
What point is this? He took him lightly, paid for it and didn't again

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's the same power. You're splitting hairs over semantics, like the name. 'Force Storm' is a name given to the production of lots of lightning for one.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine dominated the minds of...what, a planet? All his minions knew he could dominate their minds (and he did with Jeng Droga)

As far as Jeng Droga is concerned, he had special bonding with Emperor. He was not an opponent of Palpatine. Every Emperor's hand had special bonding with him. This is similar to relationship between Lord Vitiate and his Elite Guard on Dromund Kaas.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, and Lord Kopecz also turned a Jedi into a smoking, charred corpse with lightning.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
They weren't Tenebrae's opponents, either. He tricked them first.

Revan and Malak planned to kill the Sith Emperor. However, they were led in to a trap.

And this is what Revan recalls of his previous encounter:

As they drew closer to the throne room, Revan’s thoughts drifted back to his last confrontation with the Emperor. In all his battles, he had never faced an enemy with that kind of power. The dark side had radiated from him in palpable waves, his physical shell barely able to contain the crackling energy.

In their last meeting he had overwhelmed Revan completely; it wasn’t even fair to call it a battle.

This is called EPIC mind domination. Revan is one of the most powerful individuals in Star Wars mythos, and yet Lord Vitiate subdued him easily with his mind controlling powers.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine also offered Sedriss freedom if Sedriss could kill him. Then broke him.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine preferred giving people a level of autnonomy. However, he showed he was fully capable in this. He just didn't care to do it much.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, and Cronal did it to Kar Vastor

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not sure what you're point is. Galen Marek is one of the most powerful characters in Star Wars history. A comparison to him is never going to make a Jedi/Sith look weak.

Galen' feat of electrocuting an AT-AT along with its crew inside it, is more impressive feat in comparison to that of Sidious killing a bunch of troops.

Just look at the statistics of AT-AT:

http://soak-blog.andrewkelsalldes.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/AT-AT-Walker-Star-Wars.jpg

Originally posted by Nephthys
However, we know that Galens Force Lightning is inferior to Sidious' because Galen was unable to defeat Darth Vader with it when he hit him whereas Sidious' Force Lightning was able to easily kill him. Also we know that Galen is inferior to the Emperor because he was described as being 'no match for the Emperor', as well as because his lightning never reached intensities sufficient to turn an opponent into ash.

For example; Galen and Yoda blocked Sidious' Force Lightning with bare hands. In comparison, Vader could not perform this feat and handle it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Both myself and JediSilver have called you on this. You do not become resistent to Force Lighting merely by being Force User.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It is not about the people he killed, it is about the size of the attack and how much power he would have had to have produced to kill that many people at once.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres also the skill that he showed by not killing his own people with it, bending the lightning around them.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And both of them need to be actually consciously used to be effective. We do not assume that they are being used whenever a character is hit by Lightning.

You should lecture member Lightsnake on these matters, and not me. He thinks that the 'art of resurrection' somehow correlates with defensive options against Force Lightning.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That isn't proof genius. Theres nothing that states that purple lightning is more powerful than blue lightning at all.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Plus as I showed, Sidious also has purple lightning.

The furious Emperor then used his own dark Force powers to attack, try to destroy Luke Skywalker with blasts of blue Lightning.

Source: The Essential Chronology (page 61)

OWNED.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well thats because Darth Vader is incredibly powerful. Being 80% as powerful as Darth Sidious is nothing to sneeze at.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well thats, uh, like, your opinion man. /thedude

But its wrong. Galen was ultimately unable to to defeat Palpatine. That you think he made a joke out of him is irrelevent because he didn't. He surprised the Emperor and showed himself to be stronger than he had imagined.

Also:

"No!" the apprentice cried, dropping his defenses to strike one last time at the Imperials. Energy surged through him. He felt as though a star had blazed to life in his chest. Driven by concern for his friends rather than himself, he embraced the Force completely, utterly, and was rewarded with strength that made his efforts with the dark side look like those of a child. His nerves were on fire. Streamers of light radiated from his skin. His bones glowed like radiant lava.

Galen was in a state of onenness with the Force at that point (A similar state to what Jacen did at the end of The Unifying Force) and was drawing on so much power it made his time as a Sith look like the playing of a child.

1. After sustaining a blast of Force Lightning from Palpatine, he got on his feet and send him packing with a Force push.

2. Kota then convinced Galen to not kill Sidious because he will fall to the dark side and shall never recover. This is why Galen decided to sacrifice himself.

3. Palpatine unleashed another barrage of Force Lightning on Galen, who blocked it with his bare hands. And mind you, he was not screaming (oh mommy, please help) when he was doing so.

4. While sustaining this second barrage, he lowered his guard to destroy the squad of stormtroopers who were pursuing his friend.

4. Galen then slowly but surely strode through the barrage of Sidious' Force Lightning and engulfed the Sith Lord himself with it. The latter also experienced similar pain as Galen was going through.

To me, he certainly made a joke out of Palpatine (in canonical path).

Originally posted by Nephthys
And he still did nothing more than singe Sidious' cloak.

Do you understand?

I can safely state that Lord Vitiate has demonstrated a far more greater example of durability.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Do you think if he could he would have commited suicide if he felt he could defeat Sidious, or even have gotten away from him?

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, Galen Marek was ultimately Sidious' inferior and had no chance in a serious fight against him. Which says a hell of alot about Sidious' power considering how immensely powerful Marek was.

Originally posted by Nephthys
EVERY. CHARACTER. HAS. LIMITS. I do not need you to tell me that. You think Vitiate does not? You think Revan does not? You saying he has limits does not diminish the fact that Yoda is incredibly powerful and would kick Revan's shit in. I've never said that blocking Sidious' lightning was impossible. But Sidious' lightning is undoubtable one of, if not the most powerful version of the technique that exist, and blocking it would be an extremely difficult and debilitating thing to do.

And again, he's ****ing Galen Marek! He's one of the most overpowered characters ever. Galen being able to block Sidious' Force Lightning is not an indication that anyone can do it.

First you need to establish that Yoda' mastery of Tutaminis is on par with that of the Revan. Then you shall proceed to make these tall claims. By all means, you can only rely on speculations in these matters.

Revan countered a swirling storm of pure dark side energy comprising of 12 purple lethal bolts that possessed the power to destroy very powerful adversaries.

Yoda blocked like 4 dangerous bolts of blue Lightning with his bare hands? Not good enough in comparison.

In addition, Sidious by OT had improved further. And yet, Galen blocked his Force Lightning with bare hands. You think that Galen is more powerful then Master Yoda?

Originally posted by Nephthys
They can. We do not assume that they do in all cases.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Killing a creature with Force Lightning is no different than killing a Jedi with it.

You are UberFail incarnate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh please. Starkiller having trouble with Darth Vader does nothing to prove that he is weak and only proves that Darth Vader is far more powerful than you give him credit for. You seem to have an unusual bias against Vader and constantly seem to see him as weak and pathetic. Kindly change that opinion because it is objectively wrong.

Here are some reminders:

Vader lost to young Luke, when the latter gave in to his anger.
Vader lost to Galen.
Vader lost to Galen's clone.
Vader lost to resurrected Maul. He managed to kill the latter with a suicidal move.
A skilled mercenary named Tark gave Vader a tough fight.

While TFU improved the image of Vader, it also demonstrated that other powerful individuals besides Sidious and Luke could handle him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not on that scale or level of power.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not always. A character can give themselves time to concentrate and put alot of space between them and their opponent to do so. Look at the Sidious vs Yoda fight. Sidious managed to put plenty of room between he and Yoda to give himself the opportunity to concentrate and attack him with TK. Or the first Luke vs Vader fight where Vader focuses and attacks Luke with TK as well. Dooku vs Yoda, both are clearly concentrating on using the Force on each other. Or Bane vs Sirak. I can go on if you'd like.

In a rare case, a Force-user may achieve oneness with the Force during combat situations. You can expect big surprises in such circumstances. Still not on the scale of what can be performed with absolute freedom of mind.

The most amazing feats performed by Galen and Luke are not valid in this context. In these cases, the Force-users blocked all thoughts and only concentrated on one particular objective with full focus. There was no interference or opponent to deal with.

Originally posted by Nephthys
1) Galen has never turned anything to ash with his lightning.

Originally posted by Nephthys
2) Galen Mother****ing Marek is incredibly powerful.

Originally posted by Nephthys
3) But Sidious did kill Vader with his Force Lightning where Marek failed, thus proving that his Lightning is more powerful.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No its not. She only fought a weakened Nihilus, and since she could not sense his power, you have absolutely no argument to prove that Revan > Nihilus

How was Traya able to sense Exile? SWTCE also confirms this.

Or

You think that Meetra learned nothing about Nihilus from her interactions with Traya and Visas?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Darkside energy. And yeah it didn't. But Sidious' did.

Later on, his clone subdued Vader with a powerful blast of Force Lightning. The clone could have ended Vader's life at that moment but Kota interfered.

It seems as if Kota has fetish with Vader and Sidious and wants to see them survive.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Force is comparable to regular energy now?

Also, look at these images:

Don't ever underestimate the power of real Lightning. They kill and destroy easily.

Force Lightning is a technique which siphons life energies from living organisms. Its destructive power depends upon the command of the Force-user with it.

Nature of both is different but symptoms are similar. Both burn and kill.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And yet you still doubt Sidious' power.

For example; Galen and Yoda blocked Sidious' Force Lightning with bare hands. In comparison, Vader could not perform this feat and handle it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You still have not prove that merely being a different color makes them more powerful.

It is not like; Hey Master, can I change color of my Force Lightning? I prefer purple please. 🙄

Originally posted by Nephthys
No I didn't.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Did you even watch that fight? Sidious was at several points overcome with hysterical laughter and not paying any attention to Yoda. I think that proves that he was not overly worried, and was extremely overconfident. Overconfidence is Palpatines weakness, remember?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Later on Bane attacks Raskta with a Force Push that was stated would kill her if it it.

Originally posted by Nephthys

So ****ing what? If someone can kill millions to billions of cannon fodder at once is that not still an impressive? Of course it is. That level of scale is far about anything Vitiate has done.

One powerful individual can be nearly unstoppable to subdue with mind controlling powers then thousands of ordinary beings. During clone wars, it took 3 powerful Jedi to mentally break one strong-minded individual who was not even a Jedi. Do the math.

Your benchmark should be strong individuals.

Lord Vitiate has a history of subduing even powerful Force-users with his EPIC mind controlling powers.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Particularly as Vitiate 'dominated' those Sith Lords in an unconfirmed legend,

The records uncovered by Meetra confirmed that Lord Vitiate invited all surviving Sith Lords in Nathema.

The devastation in Nathema, itself affirms that the ritual occurred.

Revan also stated that Lord Vitiate emerged more powerful after that ritual. He also confirmed that Lord Vitiate killed his father.

No source contradicts with revelations from Lord Nyriss. She gave the 'most detailed accounts' of the events. Before she took Lord Scourge to Nathema, she had visited that planet before to determine the facts.

Originally posted by Nephthys
and that as Revan proved he relies on his opponents being unprepared against his mental assault.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Prove first that he even performed that feat, as it happened in a legend that even Nyriss admitted she couldn't prove and that she wasn't sure that it was true, and then prove that those Sith Lords resisted Vitiates mental domination in anyway. Because if they did not, then they were just as much cannon fodder as the millions Sidious dominated.

“Those who witnessed the events no longer live to verify them. But if you had ever met the Emperor in person, you would not be so hesitant to accept the tale as fact.”

Lord Scourge had doubts earlier but his doubts vanished when he witnessed Nathema and personally interacted with Lord Vitiate.

Also, why did Revan had to put special effort in preventing Lord Vitiate' telepathic assault?

Lord Vitiate certainly posed no challenge with his mind controlling powers, right? 🙄

And I have covered the canon fodder part already.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious dominated Luke Skywalker with it and turned him to the dark side in Dark Empire. In the audio book this is so intense that Luke screams.

In the prison on Byss, the Emperor tempted Skywalker, trying to use the same tactics that had drawn his father, Anakin Skywalker, to evil. No longer the impulsive youth at war with his own anger, Luke Skywalker faced a moment of great decision. He believed that he had to use the Emperor's own knowledge of the dark side against him. Thinking he could be stronger, believing he could trick Palpatine and destroy the dark side from within, Skywalker agreed to join him.

Source: The Essential Chronology

The Emperor was not a mad, deluded shadow of a once great man; he was a conscious, willing participant in corruption for its own sake. Luke apprenticed himself to the Emperor of his own free will. Palpatine was so powerful in this new incarnation that Luke felt that the only way to defeat the Dark Side was to know its ways and to find its weaknesses. Luke has chosen his destiny: to understand the Dark Side from within and to use that knowledge to conquer it.

Source: The Dark Empire Sourcebook

OWNED.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He is still Vitiates superior.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Originally posted by RevanSpoilers
Neph, your slaying of the infidel will likely be LeGenDary.

Good lord how can you people care this much?

I came back to finish my job of addressing some misconceptions here.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My point is this:

Galen' feat of electrocuting an AT-AT along with its crew inside it, is more impressive feat in comparison to that of Sidious killing a bunch of troops.

Just look at the statistics of AT-AT:

http://soak-blog.andrewkelsalldes.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/AT-AT-Walker-Star-Wars.jpg

Well I'm afraid that you're point is irrelevent. We know that Sidious' Force Lightning is superior to Galen due to his successfully killing Vader with it, whereas Galen was unable to do the same. And his clone was unable to do the same despite channelling massive amounts of electricity into it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vader, while being very strong, is more vulnerable to powerful blasts of Force Lightning in comparison to other very strong individuals who are on par with or better then him.

For example; Galen and Yoda blocked Sidious' Force Lightning with bare hands. In comparison, Vader could not perform this feat and handle it.

Again this is irrelevent. Vader was able to handle Mareks FLightning, but wasn't able to do the same with Palpatines Lightning. Theres nothing that you can say that will change this simple fact.

Also Vader seems to be much better at handling Lightning in comparison to others. His suit is insulated.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have effectively dealt with JediSilver guy. Time to address your points.

You did not deal with him. You got your ass kicked and he just stopped responding to him. Unless you believe that not responding proves that he lost, in which case you'd do well to remember your own history on here.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Really? Then Galen takes the top prize. He dealt with an AT-AT with his Force Lightning.

And Sidious' Lightning is canonally more powerful than his.

Sidious: "Is that why you choose to not strike me down? Because you know I could so easily overwhelm the delicate electrical systems of your suit?" - Rise of Darth Vader.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He certainly had good control over his powers. No one denies this.

👆

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes. This is why my original points involve terms like USING THE FORCE or FORCE CAN BE USED. JediSilver also failed to understand my point and wasted my time.

You should lecture member Lightsnake on these matters, and not me. He thinks that the 'art of resurrection' somehow correlates with defensive options against Force Lightning.

Excellent. Then you admit that merely stating that someone is powerful means nothing? They need to actually be resisting the attack. So in other words, unless someone is actually resisting the attack, there is no difference between an ordinary person and a powerful Force User.

I don't think that was the gist of what he was saying.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Purple bolts are typically described as deadly and lethal.

That proves nothing. Unless you have an actual source stating that purple Lightning is superior to blue Lightning.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Read this:

The furious Emperor then used his own dark Force powers to attack, try to destroy Luke Skywalker with blasts of blue Lightning.

Source: The Essential Chronology (page 61)

OWNED.

😐

I have shown you video proof that Sidious is capable to purple lightning. If purple lightning really is superior that just proves that Sidious was taking it easy on Luke.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am confident that Lucas was talking about potential.

Despite the fact that Lucas has stated that Anakin's full potential is twice that of Sidious'.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He did made a joke of Palpatine. Here is the whole picture:

1. After sustaining a blast of Force Lightning from Palpatine, he got on his feet and send him packing with a Force push.

2. Kota then convinced Galen to not kill Sidious because he will fall to the dark side and shall never recover. This is why Galen decided to sacrifice himself.

3. Palpatine unleashed another barrage of Force Lightning on Galen, who blocked it with his bare hands. And mind you, he was not screaming (oh mommy, please help) when he was doing so.

4. While sustaining this second barrage, he lowered his guard to destroy the squad of stormtroopers who were pursuing his friend.

4. Galen then slowly but surely strode through the barrage of Sidious' Force Lightning and engulfed the Sith Lord himself with it. The latter also experienced similar pain as Galen was going through.

To me, he certainly made a joke out of Palpatine (in canonical path).

Yawn. I don't care what your opinion is. Its canon fact that Galen was no match for the Emperor. Sorry.

Sidious was obviously pretending to lose in order to seduce Galen to the Dark Side.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And Darth Vader, regardless of being injured, tolerated that same blast too. Only non Force-users stationed nearby perished. So how does this proves extreme durability of Palpatine?

I can safely state that Lord Vitiate has demonstrated a far more greater example of durability.

Sidious was at point blank range, yet he managed to shield himself. I doubt it was pure durability. Vader was already shielded by being underneath the platform though. Its unknown if he was even hit.

What has he demonstrated?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Covered above. Kota adviced him against killing the Sith Emperor.

He advised him not to kill an unarmed Emperor in anger, as that would make him fall to the dark side. If Galen was able to defeat him after it was made clear that Sidious was only playing dead, I doubt he'd object.

Also what was stopping him from simply run away?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is open to speculation. Galen managed to compromise the position of Sidious by engulfing the latter with his own Force Lightning assault. Sooner or later, Sidious would have been forced to let him go under such circumstances. At minimum, Galen may have escaped from his clutches.

It is in no way open to speculation. It was canonally stated that Galen could not defeat the Emperor.

End of story.

And again, if Galen could have escaped, why the **** didn't he?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Is this a sign of desparation. I do think so.

First you need to establish that Yoda' mastery of Tutaminis is on par with that of the Revan. Then you shall proceed to make these tall claims. By all means, you can only rely on speculations in these matters.

Revan countered a swirling storm of pure dark side energy comprising of 12 purple lethal bolts that possessed the power to destroy very powerful adversaries.

Yoda blocked like 4 dangerous bolts of blue Lightning with his bare hands? Not good enough in comparison.

In addition, Sidious by OT had improved further. And yet, Galen blocked his Force Lightning with bare hands. You think that Galen is more powerful then Master Yoda?

Since when is Tutaminis the sole deciding factor in Force Strength? Never is when.

And yeah, I would say that the claim could be made that Galen is more powerful than Yoda.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Galen killed [B]Rancors with Force Lightning. Get the point? 🙄 [/B]

And Sidious' Force Lightning is more powerful than Galens. 🙂

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have nothing personal against Vader. He is one of my favorites from the movies (surprised?). He is definately very strong but not as UBER as you make him out to be. To you, nothing less then Darth Sidious can take him out. You overlook his limitations.

Here are some reminders:

Vader lost to young Luke, when the latter gave in to his anger.
Vader lost to Galen.
Vader lost to Galen's clone.
Vader lost to resurrected Maul. He managed to kill the latter with a suicidal move.
A skilled mercenary named Tark gave Vader a tough fight.

While TFU improved the image of Vader, it also demonstrated that other powerful individuals besides Sidious and Luke could handle him.

Not really. I understand Vaders limitations. I just place him higher on the power heirarchy than you do.

As to your reminders:

Well its not as if Luke is particularly powerful or anything.
Galen Marek is one of the top tiers in Star Wars.
His clone was more or less just as powerful.
Vader did not lose.
And he still lost. Plus the guy had planned to fight Vader for years.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
An ordinary Jedi would not be able to perform such a feat but those who were strong in the Force may pull it off with proper concentration and focus. Darth Nihilus is an example. And Meetra considered Revan to be even more powerful then Darth Nihilus. Imagine what Revan may accomplish with full concentration and focus.

We saw what Revan did. He.... knocked the Emperor over. Huzzah.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This does not contradicts my original point. Yes, Force-users need space to perform impressive feats during combat situations. However, under these scenarios, their minds are pre-occupied with planning moves to counter the opponents and surprises that they may expect in response.

In a rare case, a Force-user may achieve oneness with the Force during combat situations. You can expect big surprises in such circumstances. Still not on the scale of what can be performed with absolute freedom of mind.

The most amazing feats performed by Galen and Luke are not valid in this context. In these cases, the Force-users blocked all thoughts and only concentrated on one particular objective with full focus. There was no interference or opponent to deal with.

And likewise that does not contradict my original point, which is that Force-users can create the space that they need to be able to perform these. I don't see why you would therefore invalidate such abilities when they are quite capable to performing them in combat.

Er, what? Galen not in a state of oneness of with the Force when he moved that Star Destroyer.

Actually while Galen moves the Star Destroyer he is attacked by TIE fighters.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
There are rumors that Starkiller vaporized ordinary beings with Force Lightning.

I think you'll need a little more than rumors. I've never seen him do that, and I own the game and the book.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So are several others.

Whats your point.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Circumstances of both events are different. I have covered this.

What circumstances? Its the same guy, in the same armor, being hit by the same attack.

You havn't covered it at all to my knowledge.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your assumption is baseless.

How was Traya able to sense Exile? SWTCE also confirms this.

Or

You think that Meetra learned nothing about Nihilus from her interactions with Traya and Visas?

Baseless? I posted ****ing proof right there on the page. What the hell have you posted that gives your argument a better 'base' than mine?

Well they do have a Force Bond. And you can sense a Force Wound but all you sense is the wound in the Force, not their power.

OR

The believe the quote is that his command of the Force is greater than any she's ever felt. Since she didn't feel Nihilus' power he isn't part of that quote.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You have no idea of destructive power of real Lightning. It can reduce a normal person to ash within seconds. It can damage structures and machines with relative ease.

Also, look at these images:

Don't ever underestimate the power of real Lightning. They kill and destroy easily.

Force Lightning is a technique which siphons life energies from living organisms. Its destructive power depends upon the command of the Force-user with it.

Nature of both is different but symptoms are similar. Both burn and kill.

What the ****? Show me an example of a lightning strike reducing a person to ash. Though:

Man survives being btruck by lightning SIX times.

Also that first picture is from the first Fantastic Four movie. Lol.

But that wasn't my point. Dark Side energy is not the same thing as electricity or lightning.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, I don't doubt Sidious' power. My point is that Vader, while being very strong, is more vulnerable to powerful blasts of Force Lightning in comparison to other very strong individuals who are on par with or better then him.

For example; Galen and Yoda blocked Sidious' Force Lightning with bare hands. In comparison, Vader could not perform this feat and handle it.

Nice copy paste.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have covered this. To me, color indicates different intensity of energies.

You're not allowed to just state your opinion and expect it to be correct.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If overconfidence is Palpatine's weakness, then he is done with in this contest.

I doubt that. How would Vitiate take advantage of this?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Did it killed her? No. She probably threw up some defense, right? 🙄

No, Farfalla threw up a defence that saved her life, despite banes Force Push tearing through the shield, hurling her across the room and slamming her against the wall.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It certainly is very impressive feat. However, people of Byss were already loyal to him. This made them even more vulnerable to Sidious' mind controlling powers. Remember that it is commonly believed that mind tricks can dominate weak minds with relative ease? Scale is irrelevant.

One powerful individual can be nearly unstoppable to subdue with mind controlling powers then thousands of ordinary beings. During clone wars, it took 3 powerful Jedi to mentally break one strong-minded individual who was not even a Jedi. Do the math.

Your benchmark should be strong individuals.

Lord Vitiate has a history of subduing even powerful Force-users with his EPIC mind controlling powers.

How the hell is scale irrelevent? Are you suggesting that Obi-Wan Kenobi could mind trick millions as long as they're stupid? No. Scale is very much relevent. It demonstates Sidious' power and his immense skill with telepathy.

And I wasn't talking about Byss.

No matter how much you capslock EPIC, an unsubstantiated legend does not put Vitiates telepathic abilities on par with Sidious'.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is not a pure legend. Lord Nyriss was not telling a fairytale to Lord Scourge. Meetra's own investigation corroborated with her story on several points.

The records uncovered by Meetra confirmed that Lord Vitiate invited all surviving Sith Lords in Nathema.

The devastation in Nathema, itself affirms that the ritual occurred.

Revan also stated that Lord Vitiate emerged more powerful after that ritual. He also confirmed that Lord Vitiate killed his father.

No source contradicts with revelations from Lord Nyriss. She gave the 'most detailed accounts' of the events. Before she took Lord Scourge to Nathema, she had visited that planet before to determine the facts.

All that you've posted proves that the ritual did take place. Nothing proves that he telepathically dominated hundreds of Sith Lords at once. Just because the bare bones of the legend is true, does not mean that every word of it is. Theres nothing proving that he did the mind control thing at all.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan's example proves that a potential opponent who has no clue of powers of Lord Vitiate is in for a rude surprise. Specially, the overconfident one.

And do you think that Sidious has no clue about Vitiate? I mean, Sidious seems to have based an awful lot of his Empire off of Vitiates and he's one of the most knowledgable and scholarly individuals in the mythos. So I seriously doubt he'll be unprepared in a fight against him.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Can you prove the negative?

“Those who witnessed the events no longer live to verify them. But if you had ever met the Emperor in person, you would not be so hesitant to accept the tale as fact.”

Lord Scourge had doubts earlier but his doubts vanished when he witnessed Nathema and personally interacted with Lord Vitiate.

Also, why did Revan had to put special effort in preventing Lord Vitiate' telepathic assault?

Lord Vitiate certainly posed no challenge with his mind controlling powers, right? 🙄

And I have covered the canon fodder part already.

I don't have to prove a negative.

Unless you can prove that Vitiate did dominate those Sith Lords minds then I'm afraid you have no argument.

Just because Nyriss is Vitiates b*tch does not constitute proof.

Because Revan wasn't skilled in preventing mental assaults before and had to pay special attention to countering the Emperors mental powers.

No, Revan and Malak prove that Vitiate does have some ability with the skill. Quite great ability. But nothing that automatically elevates him above every other Sith Lord.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Bullshit:

In the prison on Byss, the Emperor tempted Skywalker, trying to use the same tactics that had drawn his father, Anakin Skywalker, to evil. No longer the impulsive youth at war with his own anger, Luke Skywalker faced a moment of great decision. He believed that he had to use the Emperor's own knowledge of the dark side against him. Thinking he could be stronger, believing he could trick Palpatine and destroy the dark side from within, Skywalker agreed to join him.

Source: The Essential Chronology

The Emperor was not a mad, deluded shadow of a once great man; he was a conscious, willing participant in corruption for its own sake. [B]Luke apprenticed himself to the Emperor of his own free will. Palpatine was so powerful in this new incarnation that Luke felt that the only way to defeat the Dark Side was to know its ways and to find its weaknesses. Luke has chosen his destiny: to understand the Dark Side from within and to use that knowledge to conquer it.

Source: The Dark Empire Sourcebook

OWNED.[/b]

Wrong. Luke joined Sidious willingly at first, but turned on him and tried to destroy all of the Emperors clones. When the Emperor found him he beat Luke into submission and forced him to rejoin the dark side.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sorry, am not convinced. Lord Vitiate is more overwhelming Sith Lord. Sidious is exceptional only because of his ability to produce Force Storms.

Lol. Yeah, sure.

SPOILERS.

How very overwhelming. And somehow the T3 unit was able to survive the fight. OVERWHELMING.

He's trying to compare REAL lightning to Sith lightning?