Satale Shan and Darth Malgus vs The Sith Emperor

Started by Zampanó11 pages
Originally posted by Eminence
He's also six five and two hundred fifty pounds, so you'd better forward some cash and salvia with that apology.

pssh... I'm taller than tha-

oh.

so...

Have I mentioned how funny and charismatic I find Blax to be lately?

Since when did you start lying?

Have you actually read my arguments?

No, but that's because I sometimes see a lot of text in debates and part of me dies inside.

He who posts the most and refuses to lose wins.

Originally posted by Nephthys

He who posts the most and refuses to lose wins.

that has always been the problem with this place.

Originally posted by truejedi
that has always been the iconic asset of the internet.
Fixed.

Legend, I take your silence as surrender. As my intellectual captive, I promise you will not be taken advantage of by my psyche.

Does it feel unusual to know that you have greatly aided my fiendish ends?

What ends are these?

His bookends. Their varnish required the sweat of nerds.

That diabolical bastard!

Originally posted by Nephthys
Fail. Name another time someones killed 30 people at once with a single blast of lightning.

Galen Marek disabled an AT-AT with his Force Lightning. All troops inside the large machine also died in the process. To me, this is more impressive feat.

Killing ordinary troops with Force Lightning is no big deal.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats what I said.

Good. It is a very impressive feat.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Whats your proof? You're clearly making this up as you go along. The Force can be used to absorb lightning with your hands, as we see when Yoda does it, but I've seen nothing even suggesting that you can make your body resistant to lightning.

There are other techniques; Force immunity and Force Barrier. Both of these increase your resistance against energy based attacks.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Again, actually use evidence to support your point. Prove that purple lightning is more powerful than blue lightning.

It is so intense that it can rip through the defences of powerful Jedi and Sith and incinerate them.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bull. ****ing. Shit.

Mace Windu had a lightsaber and he could barely block Sidious' Force Lightning. The same Mace Windu who can punch Superbattle Droids apart with his bare hands.

To even suggest that any powerful Jedi would be able to block Sidious' Force Lightning with his bare hands just shows how massively biased you are. Firstly, being able to block lightning with your hands is an extremely difficult ability to perform. I believe its been described as 'almost impossible' do learn. Secondly, Darth Sidious is well in contention as the most powerful Sith of all time. And Thirdly, Darth Sidious' skill with Force Lightning is one of the greatest in the mythos. Not 'any powerful Jedi' can block his lightning.

Galen Marek deflecting Sidious' lightning was because he Galen mother****ing Marek and he can do that. But even then Galen, despite how insanely overpowered he is (I would argue he stands a good chance against Vitiate.) was explicitly described as 'Starkiller was ultimately no match for the power of Darth Sidious." (Star Wars databank)


Galen Marek found Vader a challenging opponent. I doubt that he alone stands a chance against Lord Vitiate. He will end up like Revan.

Also, Galen made a joke out of palpatine. Here is how;

1. Galen blocked his Force lightning with bare hands.
2. Let his guard down for a moment to perform a Force attack to kill the troops pursuing his friends while simultaneously holding Sidious. Tolerated all that pain in the process even with his guard down.
3. Then he strode towards Palpatine and engulfed him with his own Force lightning. Palpatine also felt immense pain.

However, Galen decided to sacrifice himself. There is no proof that Sidious could have subdued him. Galen may have taken Palpatine down with his own Force Lightning. The author saved the imagine of Palpatine by bending the story arc like that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No need to exaggerate.
Hey, guess what, Master Yoda is one of the greatest Jedi of all time. I know you hate the PT with an inexplicable passion, but thats fact.

Yes, I know this. But he has his limits too. Still he proved that blocking Sidious's Force Lightning is not an impossible feat. Something that Galen proved later on.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You still have failed to provide any evidence that Jedi and Sith can protect themselves from the effects of Force Lightning. Until you actually do that you shouldn't make absurd assumptions like this.

Those who are well-versed in the ways of the Force can use defensive techniques to protect themselves. Nothing here to prove.

Also, killing a creature with Force Lightning is nothing unique. Galen has done this several times. However, there are a few creatures who can even tolerate Force Lightning assaults.

Fail.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No doubt Nyriss's lightning was impressive. But Darth Sidious is so powerful that even the Force Monster that is Galen Marek is 'ultimately no match' for him. And Galen Marek can create artificial hurricanes with the Force, destroy a structure that extends into orbit with the Force and redirect an Imperial class Star Destroyer with enough force to damage the hull. This is the difference.

And yet he found Darth Vader a challenging opponent whose feats do not compare either? Seriously, come up with better arguments next time. The strength of a Jedi is evaluated on the basis of performance in combat and not just other feats.

Moving that Star Destroyer is an incredible feat. However, Galen properly concentrated when he performed that feat. Any powerful Jedi can perform amazing feats with proper concentration.

Unfortunately, the circumstances of combat are different. In combat situation, the mind of a Jedi or Sith is heavily occupied.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Here is one of the times Sidious disintergrates something with his lightning:


See above. Galen has performed comparable feats several times. He even brought down a much larger creature with his Force Lightning. And he still failed to subdue Darth Vader (a powerful Sith Lord) with his Force Lightning.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Except that Nihilus was a wound in the Force, which as this scene proves (1.17):

YouTube video

Makes it all but impossible properly feel with the Force. 'You were correct Kavar. When she was here, I felt it. It was as if she was not there, more like an echo.' Theres more later in the scene. A wound feels like an 'emptiness' to the Force. Obviously not good for direct power comparisons. 😉

Also, could I get the actual quote?


She heard all about him from Kriea. And she also fought him. Is this not enough?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Your attempts at downplaying anything from the PT are getting transparent.

And AT-AT is powered by a fusion reactor rather than conventional electricity. I see no evidence that Force Lightning would be super effective against it. And even if and AT-AT was easily destroyed by lightning, Force Lightning is composed of Dark Side energy, not Electricity.

There goes your argument.


Lightning contains energy. Still Galen' Force Lightning did not work against Darth Vader, a powerful Sith Lord.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It wasn't designed to tolerate extremely hot energy based attacks? Could have fooled me. 😐

Force Lightning isn't comparable to real world lightning.


Lightning contains energy. The Jedi summon it using the Force.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You said 'Lethal Force lightning attacks would still destroy him.' Unless you were being stupid and talking about how only lightning that would be lethal to Vader would destroy him (which is self-eveident), then your words indicate that you belive that any lethal amount of Force Lightning could kill Darth Vader. This is obviously no the case. I would actually say that Vader has much higher resistance to Lightning than a regular combatant.

Yes, Darth Vader has much higher resistance to Lightning that a regular combatant. However, he is not Lightning-proof. Sidious proved this.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The facts say otherwise.

You are obviously wrong. The energies in the Force Lightning produced by Lord Nyriss and Lord Vitiate are of different intensity. They radiated different color then standard Blue.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What about them? Sidious did kill Mace Windu with his Force Lightning.

You forgot the Anakin factor.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And he was clearly overconfident when engaging Yoda, believing he had rendered the Jedi unconscious.

Yoda was not an opponent that he would have taken lightly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not true. Darth Banes Force Pushes could liquidise bones. So yes it was a fairly weak Force Push in the grand scheme of things.

That was not a Force push. It was a powerful surge of energy.

The nature of Force push is different. Darth Bane did Force pushed Kas'im before. The latter responded in the same coin by sending Bane packing outside the entrance of the Temple.

Learn to differentiate between the two.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I can agree to that.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Nephthys
O RLY? It looks to me like I've owned you once again.

Also if you think that Vitiate can defeat Sidious with his telepathy, think again. Palpatine mind wiped millions if not billions on Coruscant during the construction of one of his super star destroyers. I highly doubt Vitiate can overwhelm Sidious in telepathy.


You have owned no one.

Ordinary people are cannon fodder in Star Wars.

Show me an example of Sidious dominating a powerful opponent in with his telepathic abilities in the same manner as Lord Vitiate did.

It is not given that Sidious is top at every ability. He is not.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Galen Marek disabled an AT-AT with his Force Lightning. All troops inside the large machine also died in the process. To me, this is more impressive feat.

Palpatine turned three prophets of the Dark side into smoking bones with one burst


Killing ordinary troops with Force Lightning is no big deal.

He killed dozens of them with no real effort, and more than that? He arced his lightning as to miss all his royal guards

Good. It is a very impressive feat.

[Quote]
It is so intense that it can rip through the defences of powerful Jedi and Sith and incinerate them.

Palpatine's lightning incinerated three people at once


Galen Marek found Vader a challenging opponent. I doubt that he alone stands a chance against Lord Vitiate. He will end up like Revan.

Also, Galen made a joke out of palpatine. Here is how;

1. Galen blocked his Force lightning with bare hands.
2. Let his guard down for a moment to perform a Force attack to kill the troops pursuing his friends while simultaneously holding Sidious. Tolerated all that pain in the process even with his guard down.
3. Then he strode towards Palpatine and engulfed him with his own Force lightning. Palpatine also felt immense pain.

Galen is described as 'one of the most powerful Force Users in history' and even he, according to the databank was 'no match for the power of the Emperor.'
He managed to sacrifice himself in an attack that left Palpatine wholly uninjured.


However, Galen decided to sacrifice himself. There is no proof that Sidious could have subdued him. Galen may have taken Palpatine down with his own Force Lightning. The author saved the imagine of Palpatine by bending the story arc like that.

Silly boy. The databank says Galen was no match for him


Yes, I know this. But he has his limits too. Still he proved that blocking Sidious's Force Lightning is not an impossible feat. Something that Galen proved later on.

Something that killed Galen.


Those who are well-versed in the ways of the Force can use defensive techniques to protect themselves. Nothing here to prove.

We have seen barriers can be broken.


Also, killing a creature with Force Lightning is nothing unique. Galen has done this several times. However, there are a few creatures who can even tolerate Force Lightning assaults.

Fail.


What a joke. Galen has never [b]disintegrated
one into ashes

And yet he found Darth Vader a challenging opponent whose feats do not compare either? Seriously, come up with better arguments next time. The strength of a Jedi is evaluated on the basis of performance in combat and not just other feats.
Moving that Star Destroyer is an incredible feat. However, Galen properly concentrated when he performed that feat. Any powerful Jedi can perform amazing feats with proper concentration.

Unfortunately, the circumstances of combat are different. In combat situation, the mind of a Jedi or Sith is heavily occupied.

Even concentrating, many have come short of what Galen did


See above. Galen has performed comparable feats several times. He even brought down a much larger creature with his Force Lightning. And he still failed to subdue Darth Vader (a powerful Sith Lord) with his Force Lightning.

Which strikes to just how powerful Darth Vader really is.
And Palpatine's lightning killed him


She heard all about him from Kriea. And she also fought him. Is this not enough?

Lightning contains energy. Still Galen' Force Lightning did not work against Darth Vader, a powerful Sith Lord.

Force Lightning is imposed of dark side energy

Yes, Darth Vader has much higher resistance to Lightning that a regular combatant. However, he is not Lightning-proof. Sidious proved this.

It's amazing how you can't realize the cognitive dissonance


You are obviously wrong. The energies in the Force Lightning produced by Lord Nyriss and Lord Vitiate are of different intensity. They radiated different color then standard Blue.

Plenty of people have purple lightning, what's the big deal? Plot Koon's was green


Yoda was not an opponent that he would have taken lightly.

We saw him do just that onscreen. He realized how wrong he was a moment later


That was not a Force push. It was a powerful surge of energy.

The nature of Force push is different. Darth Bane did Force pushed Kas'im before. The latter responded in the same coin by sending Bane packing outside the entrance of the Temple.

It's the same thing. A burst of force energy


You have owned no one.

Ordinary people are cannon fodder in Star Wars.

Show me an example of Sidious dominating a powerful opponent in with his telepathic abilities in the same manner as Lord Vitiate did.

It is not given that Sidious is top at every ability. He is not. [/B]

Sedriss. Jeng Droga. Mara Jade. Multiple other dark siders

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine turned three prophets of the Dark side into smoking bones with one burst

How powerful were those Dark Acolytes? Don't give me empty statements.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He killed dozens of them with no real effort, and more than that? He arced his lightning as to miss all his royal guards

Yes, Sidious demonstrated good control on his Force Lightning. However, those troops were defenseless.

Galen knocked out an AT-AT along with soldiers inside it. Big feat.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine's lightning incinerated three people at once

I know this. Impressive but no big deal.

Malgus also incinerated two Jedi instantly with his Force Lightning during the Sacking of Coruscant.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Galen is described as 'one of the most powerful Force Users in history' and even he, according to the databank was 'no match for the power of the Emperor.'
He managed to sacrifice himself in an attack that left Palpatine wholly uninjured.

Heard that declaration before. Show me the databank statement.

And Vader also survived that blast. Don't give me half baked arguments.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Silly boy. The databank says Galen was no match for him

And yet he made a joke out of Palpatine?

First helping Kota to get away from Palpatine's grip. And then giving Palpatine a taste of his own medicine?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Something that killed Galen.

He sacrificed himself. Palpatine did not kill him.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
We have seen barriers can be broken

Yes, still better then being purely defenseless.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
What a joke. Galen has never disintegrated one into ashes

Galen killed a giant Rancor with Force Lightning, a very powerful creature. Different creatures have different resistance levels.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Even concentrating, many have come short of what Galen did

Anakin concentrated and killed Count Dooku.

Bane concentrated and collapsed a very large Temple.

A Zabrak Jedi concentrated and collapsed two buildings on Malgus.

Nihilus concentrated and destroyed an entire planet.

Shall I go on?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Which strikes to just how powerful Darth Vader really is.
And Palpatine's lightning killed him

Darth Vader has limits too.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Force Lightning is imposed of dark side energy

I know.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's amazing how you can't realize the cognitive dissonance

Riiiiight?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Plenty of people have purple lightning, what's the big deal? Plot Koon's was green

Those are different from standard blue.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
We saw him do just that onscreen. He realized how wrong he was a moment later

This is not my point. I am saying that Yoda was not an opponent whom Palpatine would have taken lightly.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's the same thing. A burst of force energy

Yes. However, surge of energy can be far more destructive and powerful.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sedriss. Jeng Droga. Mara Jade. Multiple other dark siders

They were Emperor's hand. Did Palpatine turned them in to his mindless slaves in the manner of Lord Vitiate?

Those guys were recruited and trained by Palpatine to serve him.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus also incinerated two Jedi instantly with his Force Lightning during the Sacking of Coruscant.

Is that the quote where he 'harvests' them. Because that isn't what harvesting is.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Is that the quote where he 'harvests' them. Because that isn't what harvesting is.

The Force lightning burned their bodies.

Post the quote.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
How powerful were those Dark Acolytes? Don't give me empty statements.

Powerful enough to resurrect Darth Maul


Yes, Sidious demonstrated good control on his Force Lightning. However, those troops were defenseless.

Galen knocked out an AT-AT along with soldiers inside it. Big feat.

Palpatine's generated far stronger lightning than Galen, and far more. Yeah, no reason to suspect he'd do otherwise

And that AT AT was defenseless too.


I know this. Impressive but no big deal.

Malgus also incinerated two Jedi instantly with his Force Lightning during the Sacking of Coruscant.


Show us or post the quote.

Palpatine, in Empire's End, effortlessly obliterated Rayf Ysanna and mortally wounded Brand with Force Lightning. And he was at his weakest

Heard that declaration before. Show me the databank statement.

And Vader also survived that blast. Don't give me half baked arguments.


And yet he made a joke out of Palpatine?

First helping Kota to get away from Palpatine's grip. And then giving Palpatine a taste of his own medicine?


'Made a joke?' He died and failed to do any lasting harm. Palpatine was playing him until the end


He sacrificed himself. Palpatine did not kill him.

Palpatine's lightning killed him. Palpatine killed him.
'Galen sacrificed himself' and 'Palpatine killed him' are not mutually exclusive


Yes, still better then being purely defenseless.

And?


Galen killed a giant Rancor with Force Lightning, a very powerful creature. Different creatures have different resistance levels.

where was this from the book, dare I ask?


Anakin concentrated and killed Count Dooku.

Bane concentrated and collapsed a very large Temple.

A Zabrak Jedi concentrated and collapsed two buildings on Malgus.

Nihilus concentrated and destroyed an entire planet.

Shall I go on?


Yeah, not of those are 'concentration' feats.

1. Anakin gave in to the Dark Side. That's far from concentration
2. Bane didn't concentrate. He lashed out with a desperate burst
3. The Zabrak just used TK
4. Nihilus just ate the planet


Darth Vader has limits too.

So does your precious Emperor

Those are different from standard blue.

And none of it is stronger, so what? there's nothing indicating force lightning varies on color. Good lord, even Hetton in Rule of Two had a 'unique' color.' Most all of the Sith in Karpyshyn's novels have 'purple' lightning


This is not my point. I am saying that Yoda was not an opponent whom Palpatine would have taken lightly.

Do I care what your point was? You're wrong. He WAS taking him lightly at first


Yes. However, surge of energy can be far more destructive and powerful.

Yeah. And a force push is a surge of energy.


They were Emperor's hand. Did Palpatine turned them in to his mindless slaves in the manner of Lord Vitiate?

Yes, he very well could have.


Those guys were recruited and trained by Palpatine to serve him.

Notice how he broke their will with the Dark Side. Hell, a dying command to Mara stayed with her long after he was dead.