Satale Shan and Darth Malgus vs The Sith Emperor

Started by Nephthys11 pages

It appears that way.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
He's trying to compare REAL lightning to Sith lightning?

And to Dr. Doom's lightning as well...

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
He's trying to compare REAL lightning to Sith lightning?

I cannot have fun?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well I'm afraid that you're point is irrelevent. We know that Sidious' Force Lightning is superior to Galen due to his successfully killing Vader with it, whereas Galen was unable to do the same. And his clone was unable to do the same despite channelling massive amounts of electricity into it.

My point is not irrelevant. I proved that Galen has demonstrated more impressive feat with Force Lightning in comparison to feat of Sidious against troops that some people assume is most awesome display of Lightning assault.

Also, don't you think that Vader was weakened by his duel with Luke prior to his move against the Emperor?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Again this is irrelevent. Vader was able to handle Mareks FLightning, but wasn't able to do the same with Palpatines Lightning. Theres nothing that you can say that will change this simple fact.

Answer the question above.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also Vader seems to be much better at handling Lightning in comparison to others. His suit is insulated.

I doubt this.

Vader could not handle a powerful Lightning barrage from Starkiller and was on his knees.

Source: TFU II graphic comic

After this, Starkiller was about the execute Vader but Kota interfered.

You seem to forget things fast. Don't argue against established canon.

Vader can be injured/brought to his knees with powerful bursts of Force Lightning. If the assault continues unabated, he can be killed by it. No rocket science here.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You did not deal with him. You got your ass kicked and he just stopped responding to him. Unless you believe that not responding proves that he lost, in which case you'd do well to remember your own history on here.

I exposed him on several fronts. It is up to him to explain to me that why I am wrong. I don't care what you think because you have a history of dodging/ignoring presented information that does not supports your point-of-view. You are in no position to judge me.

My history is not that bad either. Like all members here, I lost in some debates and won in some. Interesting thing is that most of my assertions regarding capabilites and personality of Revan proved to be true in canonical sources. In comparison, critics relied on 'guns and grenades' based assertions and you were part of it. 🙄

Also, in the past, I relied on limited number of sources. Now, I have plethora of sources. And this makes my job easier in exposing people like you.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Sidious' Lightning is canonally more powerful than his.

Sidious: "Is that why you choose to not strike me down? Because you know I could so easily overwhelm the delicate electrical systems of your suit?" - Rise of Darth Vader.


His Lightning did not killed Galen and Yoda.

Both Kota and Luke endured it for a reasonable span of time.

It did mortally wounded Vader. What do you make from this?

Maybe, Galen did not went all out on Vader with his Force Lightning - it seems. Galen's clone did and he subdued Vader with it.

Therefore, even if we are to assume that Sidious' Force Lightning is more lethal, it is by a small margin at best.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Excellent. Then you admit that merely stating that someone is powerful means nothing? They need to actually be resisting the attack. So in other words, unless someone is actually resisting the attack, there is no difference between an ordinary person and a powerful Force User.

This is close to what I believe.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't think that was the gist of what he was saying.

Then what was it?

When I asked him about there defensive abilities against Force Lightning, he responded that they were powerful enough to resurrect Darth Maul.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That proves nothing. Unless you have an actual source stating that purple Lightning is superior to blue Lightning.

What I have gathered from canonical sources is that purple/violet bolts are typically lethal and deadly:

"Sith sorcery was as much a part of the dark side as the deadly violet bolts of energy her Master unleashed from his hands,"

Source: Dynasty of Evil (Page 131)

You already know how good Bane is in this regard.

Even a normal burst of purple/violet Force Lightning can do this:

A burst of purple lightning arced down the steps, catching both men in the chest. They barely had time to scream before they were turned into charred and smoking husks.

Scourge took a step back, knowing exactly who had been responsible for unleashing the fury of the dark side against the hapless guards.

Source: SWTOR Revan novel

Also;

She raised her free hand above her head and fired off another burst of lightning. Both Scourge and Meetra threw themselves clear of the deadly electrical bolt, but in doing so they gave Nyriss the early advantage.

Source: SWTOR Revan novel

Nyriss' signature Force Lightning was far more lethal. She would have destroyed both Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik with it.

And I don't need to introduce Lord Vitiate in this regard. If you are smart enough, you will get my point.

Terms like deadly and lethal are commonly associated with purple/violet Force Lightning.

Originally posted by Nephthys
😐

I have shown you video proof that Sidious is capable to purple lightning. If purple lightning really is superior that just proves that Sidious was taking it easy on Luke.


It radiates blue. At its brightest part, it may look like purple but it is not pure purple/violet.

Sidious intended to destroy Luke Sywalker after he said this:

"And now young skywalker, you will die."

He went all out on him with his final barrage. But Vader stopped him. Luke demonstrated greater resistance to that barrage then Vader.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Despite the fact that Lucas has stated that Anakin's full potential is twice that of Sidious'.

True for Anakin. Not true for mechanical Darth Vader.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yawn. I don't care what your opinion is. Its canon fact that Galen was no match for the Emperor. Sorry.

Statements like these do not give you the whole picture.

For example:

Though the Mandalorian fought valiantly, in the end he was no match for the Jedi Order’s most powerful champion.

Looks like you have trouble in understanding the context of english phrases.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious was obviously pretending to lose in order to seduce Galen to the Dark Side.

It does not detracts from earlier showing of Galen with the Force. Sidious was impressed and wanted him to join him replace Darth Vader.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious was at point blank range, yet he managed to shield himself. I doubt it was pure durability. Vader was already shielded by being underneath the platform though. Its unknown if he was even hit.

He was hit by rubble at minimum.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What has he demonstrated?

This;

Meetra was no expert on dark side sorcery, but it was safe to assume Vitiate not only survived the ritual, but emerged more powerful than ever. And with the destruction of everyone on Nathema—including his research team—he alone would have known the location of Dromund Kaas.

All others perished but him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He advised him not to kill an unarmed Emperor in anger, as that would make him fall to the dark side. If Galen was able to defeat him after it was made clear that Sidious was only playing dead, I doubt he'd object.

Sidious was never defenseless.

Here;

Bombarded by Force Lightning, Starkiller did not fight back

Source: The Complete Encyclopedia

Galen decided not to attempt to kill Sidious because of Kota' earlier advice.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also what was stopping him from simply run away?

The possibility of his friends not escaping from Death Star. Someone had to keep the Emperor and his forces busy for a while. Instead of fleeing like a coward, Galen decided to inspire the resistance and it eventually worked.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It is in no way open to speculation. It was canonally stated that Galen could not defeat the Emperor.

End of story.


It is. The authors have deliberately left this part open for debate.

Sidious would be more powerful but this does not suggests that he cannot be taken down under right circumstances.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And again, if Galen could have escaped, why the **** didn't he?

Blame the story arc. Galen wanted to inspire the resistance.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Since when is Tutaminis the sole deciding factor in Force Strength? Never is when.

You don't get the point. It is not necessary that a Force-user can be exceptional with every application of the Force. In certain applications

Originally posted by Nephthys
And yeah, I would say that the claim could be made that Galen is more powerful than Yoda.

I appreciate your honesty. At personal capacity, I encourage this.

However, some Star Wars authors may not agree.

In TCE, Yoda has been stated to be extraordinarily powerful in the Force.

In the same source, Galen has been stated as powerful, almost primal Force-wielder.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Sidious' Force Lightning is more powerful than Galens. 🙂 [/B]

Open to debate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not really. I understand Vaders limitations. I just place him higher on the power heirarchy than you do.

As to your reminders:

Well its not as if Luke is particularly powerful or anything.
Galen Marek is one of the top tiers in Star Wars.
His clone was more or less just as powerful.
Vader did not lose.
And he still lost. Plus the guy had planned to fight Vader for years.


Whatever the reasons, Vader is a man with limitations.

Originally posted by Nephthys
We saw what Revan did. He.... knocked the Emperor over. Huzzah.

That was a combat scenario and Revan had to do something to break free from the telepathic assault of Lord Vitiate. Don't mistake it as maximum show of strength from Revan. He did not channeled that power towards his adversary. He simply unleashed it in its purest form.

I am talking about concentration and focus without outside interference. Revan was powerful enough to perform an amazing feat under this scenario.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And likewise that does not contradict my original point, which is that Force-users can create the space that they need to be able to perform these. I don't see why you would therefore invalidate such abilities when they are quite capable to performing them in combat.

Do you think that Galen can lift and hurl an Imperial Star Destroyer like a missile towards an opponent during combat scenario? 🙄

In a non-combat scenario, a Force-user can do his BEST with thge Force; perform a TITANIC feat with full concentration and focus by fully opening to the Force. This is possible when there is no threat of outside interference.

This is the scenario in which Luke Skywalker telekinetically collapses and rebuilds a Temple. This is the scenario in which Luke manipulates a small black hole.

The most epic feats with the Force have been performed in non-combat scenarios. What is the rocket science here?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Er, what? Galen not in a state of oneness of with the Force when he moved that Star Destroyer.

He was not engaged in single combat either.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually while Galen moves the Star Destroyer he is attacked by TIE fighters.

No.

Except the Star Destroyer was growing larger with each passing second, and waves of TIE fighters and TIE bombers were pouring forth from its brand-new hangar decks. Laserfire cut huge super-hot channels through the atmosphere ahead of them.

The apprentice ignored it all.

&

The TIE fighters it had launched raced ahead of the chaotic atmospheric waves it generated. He ignored them and concentrated on shifting ground zero as close to the cannon as he could.

Source: TFU novel

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think you'll need a little more than rumors. I've never seen him do that, and I own the game and the book.

TFU II

Originally posted by Nephthys
Whats your point.

He is not the only one who can handle Sidious' Force Lightning and defeat Darth Vader.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What circumstances? Its the same guy, in the same armor, being hit by the same attack.

You havn't covered it at all to my knowledge.


Vader was weakened by his duel with Luke. Sidious' powerful Force Lightning sealed his fate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Baseless? I posted ****ing proof right there on the page. What the hell have you posted that gives your argument a better 'base' than mine?

Meetra heard all about him from Kriea, Visas, and other followers of Darth Nihilus and then FOUGHT him in combat.

You think that she cannot make an assessment of the power of an opponent on the basis of her experiences and information?

She certainly realized this without even interacting with Lord Vitiate:

The plan was both horrifying and brilliant. In addition to becoming more powerful than Meetra could imagine, Vitiate could blame the extinction of his homeworld on the Jedi, further panicking the remaining Sith worlds.

Force sense can be used to determine that how strongly attuned a Jedi or Sith is with the Force. But it does not reveals much more then this. Command of the Force is much more deeper term (in scope) then attunment with the Force. It involves mastery of applications of the Force.

As far as Revan is concerned;

She still wasn’t sure what to make of Lord Scourge. She had sensed that his offer to work together was sincere, though she wondered how much of that was Revan’s doing. It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan’s command of the Force was greater than that of anyone else she had ever met. And she knew how charismatic he could be. Even though he was a prisoner it wasn’t hard to imagine him being in total control of the situation.

This information is not just valid within the context of Meetra' opinion but is also valid in NUETRAL CONTEXT.

It is not stated like this: In Meetra' point of view, Revan' command of the Force was greater than that of anyone else.

You are grasping on straws here. Get over it. 🙄

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well they do have a Force Bond. And you can sense a Force Wound but all you sense is the wound in the Force, not their power.

They have a Force Bond even before they meet? 🙄

She was able to sense the presence of her former student.

Source: The Complete Encyclopedia

I don't feel the need to further elaborate on this part.

Originally posted by Nephthys
OR

The believe the quote is that his command of the Force is greater than any she's ever felt. Since she didn't feel Nihilus' power he isn't part of that quote.


WRONG assumption. Covered above.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What the ****? Show me an example of a lightning strike reducing a person to ash. Though:

By real lightning, I mean lightning in all forms on Earth ranging from natural to electronics based.

I have read cases in newspapers about people getting reduced to ash by powerful electrical discharges from electronic infrastructures.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Man survives being btruck by lightning SIX times.

He is very LUCKY.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also that first picture is from the first Fantastic Four movie. Lol.

But that wasn't my point. Dark Side energy is not the same thing as electricity or lightning.


Yes, I know this. I pointed out the difference between the nature of two.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nice copy paste.

You should rather focus on the intended message.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're not allowed to just state your opinion and expect it to be correct.

I typically get things right.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I doubt that. How would Vitiate take advantage of this?

Overconfidence can result in making misjudgements and underestimation of your opponent.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, Farfalla threw up a defence that saved her life, despite banes Force Push tearing through the shield, hurling her across the room and slamming her against the wall.

And what did I said?

This is my statement:

She probably threw up some defense, right?

Are you not paying attention?

Originally posted by Nephthys
How the hell is scale irrelevent? Are you suggesting that Obi-Wan Kenobi could mind trick millions as long as they're stupid? No. Scale is very much relevent. It demonstates Sidious' power and his immense skill with telepathy.

It only confirms that Sidious can easily mind-r*** ordinary people on enormous scale. The feat still fits within the boundary of mind control working on weak minds regardless of scale. Lord Vitiate broke this boundary.

And Kenobi had not mastered this technique. Obviously, he is not on par with its greatest practitioners.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And I wasn't talking about Byss.

You are talking about an event in Coruscant then? Yes, that is very impressive feat too. The feat still fits within the boundary of mind control working on weak minds regardless of scale.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No matter how much you capslock EPIC, an unsubstantiated legend does not put Vitiates telepathic abilities on par with Sidious'.

I suppose that the case of Revan and Malak is unsubstantiated legend too? 🙄

Lord Vitiate has demonstrated the capability to subdue powerful adversaries with his telepathic abilities alone. More then one at a time.

Now show me a comparable example from Darth Sidious.

Originally posted by Nephthys
All that you've posted proves that the ritual did take place. Nothing proves that he telepathically dominated hundreds of Sith Lords at once. Just because the bare bones of the legend is true, does not mean that every word of it is. Theres nothing proving that he did the mind control thing at all.

So you want to play this game now?

By your logic, I can say that all of what we have heard about Darth Nihilus from his followers is LEGEND too.

Oh, here is a supporting source too:

It was rumored that he could consume the Force energy of the entire planet.

Source: The Complete Encyclopedia (page 380)

And Colonel Tobin was exaggerating too.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And do you think that Sidious has no clue about Vitiate? I mean, Sidious seems to have based an awful lot of his Empire off of Vitiates and he's one of the most knowledgable and scholarly individuals in the mythos. So I seriously doubt he'll be unprepared in a fight against him.

Prove it. I will use your own tricks against you.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't have to prove a negative.

You need to because you are the one doubting it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Unless you can prove that Vitiate did dominate those Sith Lords minds then I'm afraid you have no argument.

Lord Nyriss is the best source for this. There is no contradiction.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Just because Nyriss is Vitiates b*tch does not constitute proof.

Is this an emotional burst?

Nyriss hates Lord Vitiate and considers him an abomination. She is plotting against him. How is she his b*tch?

Also, Nyriss is a member of his Dark Council. She had spend decades with him. She wouldn't know anything about him?

Why so much biased about her? She is honorable enough to say that she herself cannot confirm everything she knows about Lord Vitiate but she provided the most detailed summary of his history.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because Revan wasn't skilled in preventing mental assaults before and had to pay special attention to countering the Emperors mental powers.

What a pathetic one-liner. 🙄

You think thart any Tom, D**k, and Harry could subdue Revan with mental powers? They don't work on STRONG minds, right? But Lord Vitiate is the only Sith Lord who proved to be an exception to this rule.

Same thing can happen to any potential opponent who does not knows Lord Vitiate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, Revan and Malak prove that Vitiate does have some ability with the skill. Quite great ability. But nothing that automatically elevates him above every other Sith Lord.

🙄 Show me an example from Sidious or any other Sith Lord subduing powerful individuals with mental powers alone.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wrong. Luke joined Sidious willingly at first, but turned on him and tried to destroy all of the Emperors clones. When the Emperor found him he beat Luke into submission and forced him to rejoin the dark side.

Oh great.

Coming back to the point:

Where is the so called mental domination of Luke when he confronted Darth Sidious, as you originally claimed? WHERE?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol. Yeah, sure.

SPOILERS.

How very overwhelming. And somehow the T3 unit was able to survive the fight. OVERWHELMING.


You are using a BETA build to argue your point?

Now watch this:

YouTube video

In the final encounter, Lord Scourge plays a vital role in defeat of the Sith Emperor. Behind-the-scenes like act.

OWNED.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Man survives being btruck by lightning SIX times.

Damnit man, stay inside when there's another thunderstorm!

In my opinion the two together would crush the empire...then start their own and get pwned later on...

Remember when this was an actual question?

Yeah. Satele and Malgus unquestionably stomp

👆

I feel unbearable shame looking back on a time when I blasphemed against The One True Emperor. I knew not what I did.

Lmfao.

Reborn Revan>Malgus
Meetra>Satele
So...