Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Actually, when Arca Jeth's prowess was brought up before, you yourself said he had to have sucked because he was shot by droids on the battlefield. So this comes as a surprise hearing you reverse that decision. Not that you're unable to change your mind; far from it. Just saying.
Not exactly. I said Arca was a moron because he decided to drop his guard and lecture Ulic with Krath war droids everywhere. There's a difference
Ood is not at all recognized for his Force prowess nor his combat prowess.
I just provided a quote to the contrary. And again, with a saber, he's already got a better feat than Vodo
His role in The Sith Wars was mainly to prevent Exar Kun from getting a small collection of lightsabers and tomes of unknown value. He proved his physical resilience when he absorbed a full on slash from a Massassi warrior. But that's the extent of his resistance before he morphs into a tree.
Given he thought to protect them from Exar at all costs, and they were instrumental to the New Jedi Order, I'd say they were QUITE valuable.
The point being, Ood should not be used as a "powerful" Force user, or you've just opened the door for people you've disputed like Kavar for example, who demonstrated the ability to freeze multiple people in an instant, a feat not replicated by Ood, Arca Jeth, or Yoda for that matter.
Kavar's done this to Force sensitives?
And didn't Yoda freeze Ventress in mid swing in The Clone Wars?
If you're taking one example of Force use or "resilience" and applying it as a shining example of powerful, capable, or any other loaded term, allow me to re-introduce Kavar.
When were we talking resilience here?
Wait, he sucks because his death at the hands of Kreia implies she was more powerful thanSidioussome folks.
Right, but you see the point I was making? There's tons of one-trick ponies and nebulous Force users in Star Wars. If you allow quantifiers like "powerful" to be used, then you have to provide more context to support just how powerful. Vodo's not shown us anything exceptional, but in the context of his story, he is supposed to be a dueler and master of some repute. But against established badasses like say, Sidious or Yoda, he couldn't hold a candle.
Yeah, except the others ALL have something going for them. In the comic or in future material. Vodo and Odan, on the other hand are failures in the comics, failures out of them, have nothing to their name that we can verify. Vodo's supposed to be a duelist of 'some' repute, but the fact his apprentice kicked his ass while a guy who isn't 'combat oriented' did better (again, against one strike) and how he was owned when facing Jar'Kai doesn't say much for him.
Sure, Vodo's impressive in response to probably most. But to the cream of the crop, he's not much. Which is the thing here.
Vodo took on Exar Kun by himself, and underestimated him. Let's forget that Kun was already a prodigious duelist, foremost in his era excepting Ulic, and that he's channeling Force power exponentially stronger than what he possessed in the last duel which he won as well.
Kun was an experienced and talented duelist at that point, yes. The thing is, Vodo is supposed to be a top tier, ultra experienced one. He sure isn't coming across as one and his sole solo force feat is replicated and surpassed. Thrice over
Vodo was always in over his head, that's not contested. But he still had some power. But you yourself wouldn't call him "powerful" as you are with Ood Bnar, correct?
I'd call him powerful. I wouldn't call him as powerful. I can recognize Vodo is meant to be a powerful and skilled Jedi master. Of the four big ones there though, he comes across as in the lesser two
Now you're turning the argument against me and confusing the point. I'm not here to defend Vodo; I'm here to point out the obvious hypocrisy in defending Ood Bnar, the Tree Jedi Master, to defend someone else's reputation in a method to stretch it and defend Sidious' reputation. That's like the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon just to substantiate power.
We have a direct quote on Ood's power is the thing. And defend [b]Sidious's rep? There's no need for that here. DS is arguing that Palpatine's servitors are all low end scrubs, which is clearly idiotic if one his elites can match an ancient Jedi master getting a boost from Ossus, one can eliminate all life off a planet...
Considering Vodo was able to trade more than one blow, I'd say your point is moot. Ood was a stationary combatant who could absorb most attacks, so he had nothing to worry about. And in the end, Exar Kun was not seriously interested in destroying him as he was his master, Vodo.
Really? When Exar pulled out the DBL? He ran at Vodo and Vodo failed against the first hit. Ood blocked his by contrast.
And Kun was 'seriously interested' in destroying Vodo? He was trying to get Vodo to join his order, if you recall. Also, I'd think 'impending supernova' might qualify as a cause for haste
And Ood did really good being powerful against that supernova:
I would say 'survival' is a pretty decent thing there
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
When the scope of this feat has any bearing on a Versus match, I'll be impressed.In the meantime, I don't care.
I don't believe Lightsnake or myself were trying to entertain you. What he, and later I, was doing was trying to prove that Sedriss is a powerful Force user.
And I'll remind you that he's being compared to completely featless individuals. So your whole 'you can't call Ood powerful when he hasn't demonstrated anything in combat' thing is far more applicable to the Dark Council rather than people who have, y'know, actual feats.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't believe Lightsnake or myself were trying to entertain you. What he, and later I, was doing was trying to prove that Sedriss is a powerful Force user.
Right, by establishing that he died at the hands of a tree Jedi who soaked a supernova well before the battle and has dubious powers at best, and clearly was no match for a Massassi warrior in combat, nor was he able to best Exar Kun even for a second.
What's the point? How is power substantiated here? Is blowing up trees now a requirement for who is or isn't the mightiest Sith/Jedi?
And I'll remind you that he's being compared to completely featless individuals. So your whole 'you can't call Ood powerful when he hasn't demonstrated anything in combat' thing is [b]far more applicable to the Dark Council rather than people who have, y'know, actual feats. [/B]
Ood is a self-professed weakling and his only Force feat is turning into a strong, resilient tree.
When that becomes better showings than simply surviving to make it to the Dark Council in the era of the true Sith, let me know. Weak Sith do not make it do the Dark Council. Whether or not they can slingshot suns around with their power is irrelevant; they are of repute, and contextually that means they are not weaklings.
Ood Bnar is a weakling. His resistance began and ended with blocking one swing, getting cut in the back with an axe, falling on his knees, and then using a technique to become a better tree.
HOLY **** AM I IMPRESSED.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Nothing about Sedriss makes him anything but an average force user. Even Nyriss' one feat is enough to put her over the dark side adepts because it was a relevant, combat feat. Now let's see, a sith lord with vast resources at his/her disposal or an extension of Palpatine's will? That's a toughy!
I would agree that Nyriss seems like an extremely powerful Sith Lord from what I've heard. But the other faceless goons are complete unknowns.
Sedriss was capable of generating a powerful force storm from the planet's atmosphere and matched strength with Ood Bnar.
Also, when was being one of Palpatine's servants supposed to count AGAINST you as far as power went?
Seriously, what implies that Palpatine's dream of a dark side theocracy was staffed by mediocre Dark Jedi now? Also, amusingly, Ventress by feats ranks well above most of the Dark Council
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Right, by establishing that he died at the hands of a tree Jedi who soaked a supernova well before the battle and has dubious powers at best, and clearly was no match for a Massassi warrior in combat, nor was he able to best Exar Kun even for a second.What's the point? How is power substantiated here? Is blowing up trees now a requirement for who is or isn't the mightiest Sith/Jedi?
Jesus Chirst Moose, its not exactly hard to understand.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Ood is a self-professed weakling and his only Force feat is turning into a strong, resilient tree.When that becomes better showings than simply surviving to make it to the Dark Council in the era of the true Sith, let me know. Weak Sith do not make it do the Dark Council. Whether or not they can slingshot suns around with their power is irrelevant; they are of repute, and contextually that means they are not weaklings.
Ood Bnar is a weakling. His resistance began and ended with blocking one swing, getting cut in the back with an axe, falling on his knees, and then using a technique to become a better tree.
HOLY **** AM I IMPRESSED.
'I think you are under the impression that I was arguing Ood was powerful or a skilled combatant, when all I mentioned was his durability in surviving a supernova.'
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
[B]Right, by establishing that he died at the hands of a tree Jedi who soaked a supernova well before the battle and has dubious powers at best, and clearly was no match for a Massassi warrior in combat, nor was he able to best Exar Kun even for a second.What's the point? How is power substantiated here? Is blowing up trees now a requirement for who is or isn't the mightiest Sith/Jedi?
Yes, being blindsided by a Massassi while being locked in combat with Exar Kun means you suck. And wait, since when are Neti weak? They're a species that's produced many great Jedi.
Sedriss matched an ancient Jedi master focusing all his power on him with power from Ossus. that's fact
Ood is a self-professed weakling and his only Force feat is turning into a strong, resilient tree.
He is not. He said combat was not his main skill. Yoda has said the same. Many Jedi have
When that becomes better showings than simply surviving to make it to the Dark Council in the era of the true Sith, let me know. Weak Sith do not make it do the Dark Council. Whether or not they can slingshot suns around with their power is irrelevant; they are of repute, and contextually that means they are not weaklings.
Weak force users don't make it on the Dark Side elite, your point?
Ood Bnar is a weakling. His resistance began and ended with blocking one swing, getting cut in the back with an axe, falling on his knees, and then using a technique to become a better tree.
And with that one swing (And that was the whole fight), he did better than Vodo. And?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sedriss was capable of generating a powerful force storm from the planet's atmosphere and matched strength with Ood Bnar.
So he matched strength with a tree Jedi who couldn't outfight a Massassi and had no chance in hell against Exar Kun.
Can you paint a better picture here with direct quotes?
Also, when was being one of Palpatine's servants supposed to count AGAINST you as far as power went?
I don't follow this.
Seriously, what implies that Palpatine's dream of a dark side theocracy was staffed by mediocre Dark Jedi now?
Well, the fact that he never wanted a threat to his power. This is a guy who, according to the Dark Empire Sourcebook, was afraid that Thrawn would usurp his power. Apparently, giving your Dark Side Adepts anything more than rudimentary knowledge and power would be a bad thing if you're a paranoid Sith Lord who aspires to be the only Sith lord ever, according to the new Plagueis book.
So really, what's indicating that Sidious allows his Adepts to pursue power on the scale that the Dark Council is given fredom? Hell, they've got first-week students of theirs raiding tombs of the ancients on Korriban, and perusing materials on several Sith homeworlds. I'd say that the Dark Council is more inclined to be educated in the Sith ways, more able to freely use those powers, and definitely having used them to acquire their coveted spots on the Council.
Also, amusingly, Ventress by feats ranks well above most of the Dark Council
If you mean Ventress has a boatload of more visible feats, then yes, you're right. She is a G-canon character with entire novels and TV shows dedicated to her struggles. The Dark Council is a new entity comprised of Sith Lords of which we know very little at this time.
So yes, you get a point here. Well done.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
[B]So he matched strength with a tree Jedi who couldn't outfight a Massassi and had no chance in hell against Exar Kun.Can you paint a better picture here with direct quotes?
I've already freling posted it, geez.
"he was an expert at using the Force, and had a wide array of powers in his repertoire."
Well, the fact that he never wanted a threat to his power. This is a guy who, according to the Dark Empire Sourcebook, was afraid that Thrawn would usurp his power.
Militarily. He also assigned Jerec to a small ship because he trusted him so little, but Jerec had Sith knowledge
Apparently, giving your Dark Side Adepts anything more than rudimentary knowledge and power would be a bad thing if you're a paranoid Sith Lord who aspires to be the only Sith lord ever, according to the new Plagueis book.
We already knew this from Palpatine. But just because he doesn't teach everything doesn't mean he doesn't teach. Palpatine, in Jedi vs. Sith, says you should teach, but not too much too quickly (Which was Plagueis's era)
So really, what's indicating that Sidious allows his Adepts to pursue power on the scale that the Dark Council is given fredom? Hell, they've got first-week students of theirs raiding tombs of the ancients on Korriban, and perusing materials on several Sith homeworlds. I'd say that the Dark Council is more inclined to be educated in the Sith ways, more able to freely use those powers, and definitely having used them to acquire their coveted spots on the Council.
You're probably right they're more educated in Sith ways. That doesn't make them more powerful. Especially when Cronal absolutely dominated one of those ancient Sith on Korriban itself.
It'd also be kinda hard for Palps to make the Sith Cults he inducted to forget everything they'd learned to that point. Ad also, according to Darth Plagueis, Palpatine and Plagueis really didn't give a damn about the Rule of Two. The audio excerpt has Plagueis declared it's over and done
If you mean Ventress has a boatload of more visible feats, then yes, you're right. She is a G-canon character with entire novels and TV shows dedicated to her struggles. The Dark Council is a new entity comprised of Sith Lords of which we know very little at this time.
And is the possibility of her being stronger than some Sith so hard to accept? She's clearly stronger than Sith of other eras. It could just be possible that some guys in some eras are just as strong as the ones preceding them.
Also, given Karpyshyn's immature "LOLOLOL I MAKE THEM EXPLODE THINGS" style of writing with every side character he wants you to think is worth a damn?
SM
Right, but the panels clearly state that Ood Bnar knows he can't defeat Exar Kun,