Revan vs ROTS Sidious

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Tons of information is useful in knowing a character in great detail. However, we have seen characters in Stars Wars who have more impressive showings with limited screen time in comparison to those who have lot more. Your declaration means nothing.

Tooling two powerful opponents cannot be work of a weakling. But you are too brainwashed by your PT fanaticism to understand this.

Unfortunately, Scourge has nothing going for him that shows him above the level or a guy like Sirak from Path of Destruction. For a start. Certainly nothing on the level of the Pt's heaviest hitters. Let alone Nyriss.

Your only real point from Nyriss are limited showings and effortless domination from a Jedi weaker than Yoda. Even on that note, her one burst was easily blocked and repelled.

Compare to, say, Sedriss summoning a full storm from Ossus's atmospher,e or Galen Marek channeling a lightning storm at kamino.

Hell, Bane of all people, after immediately learning the power, was better with it:

"The smell of burning ozone wafted through the archives, filling Githany’s
nostrils as she watched Bane practicing his latest exercise. The room
crackled and hissed as he channeled the energy of the Force and flung it
about the room in great arcing bolts of blue-violet lightning.
Githany stood with Bane at the center of a maelstrom. A fierce wind swirled
around them, tearing at her hair and the folds of her robe. It rocked and
shook the bookshelves, knocking manuscripts to the floor and rifling their
pages. The air itself was charged with electricity, causing her skin to itch."

You are probably confusing main bolts with small extensions of main bolts.

Inform me when Nyriss's lightning was ever differentiated.

I see 7 main bolts in this image.

Neither has Nyriss.
Dooku has, however [b]defeated multiple opponents with it. Among them, Asajj Ventress and Sora Bulq.
Neither of whom he aimed to kill

Interesting. Show me the event.

Heard things like these before. I am not concerned with how powerful he was. My discussion is limited to his mastery in Force Lightning.

And Force Lightning was a power he became adept with. And?

Instead of ignoring the information provided to you, try to comprehend it. Count Dooku is not the greatest swordsman in the history.

With his Force powers.

With his Force powers.

He had him bested at sabers there as well.

Scourge can use the power of his opponents to feed his own power. See the difference?

You're saying something different than the book

Lord Scourge and Jedi Exile are also among the people with real feats. Jedi Exile alone has much better history then those PT bafoons. 🙄

You can't even spell 'buffoon' I see.
Show me Meetra Surik's (The Exile's mentally handicapped sister, btw) amazing feats now.

Mid-Tier? Your mind is basking in PT worshipping. Clear your mind first before you spout such gibberish.

Lord Nyriss was the second most powerful opponent that Revan encountered in the True Sith Empire. She was not some mid-tier level boss. 🙄

Oh, wow, the second most powerful in the Empire of enormously featless wonders.

Palpatine being more powerful as whole means nothing here. My argument is about mastery in Force Lightning. And Lord Nyriss was no joke in this regard. She could incinerate powerful Jedi with her signature Force Lightning.

Show me her ever doing so. Dooku defeated powerful Jedi with his. He merely didn't desire to kill them

Your point is baseless. Lord Scourge and Jedi Exile have defeated tons of people on multiple occassions too.

Name the canon fights and who they defeated. We'll wait

Oh wow! A puny Nighsister is now comparable to those who are one of the most powerful in the True Sith Empire and members of the Dark Council for decades. 🙄

Galen blocked Palaptine' Force Lightning with bare hands and was not helpless in that situation like Luke Skywalker was in ROTJ. Use your brain.

Whereas Palpatine's lightning mortally wounded Vader

Lord Vitiate' abilities are no joke in comparison to those of any Sith Lord you can refer to in Star Wars. Your point is moot.

"Weaker than" =/= "a joker in comparison to."
Projecting a little?

She met several Jedi Masters and notable characters including Malak, Darth Traya, Darth Sion, and Darth Nihilus.

Palpatine as a whole.

He stood up to a Sith Lord who destroyed his entire Dark Council comprising of the most powerful Sith Lords in his Empire.

Revan' command of the Force is unique and his abilities were no less then that of Yoda.

Master Yoda being more powerful does not means that he is also the best fighter and neither he can replicate all the feats of his predecessors. Such statements do not explain the whole story.

Yoda had 900 years of study compared to Revan's paltry decades, if you like that game.
Yoda is referred to as the 'fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful' and described as 'the master of all Jedi' while Palpatine is the 'lord of all Sith'.

Here is an analogy: Mark Henry is physically very strong but he is a poor wrestler.

Galen handled a freakin Imperial Star Destroyer.

Galen > Yoda, right?

And Palpatine' showings are not comparable to that of Lord Vitiate by the time of ROTS. Try a better incarnation. [/B]

Let's look at how he's described as well. The darkness beyond darkness, the event horizon in the Force...

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Who could disconnect from the Force? 🙄

Clone Wars issue 76 and 77. Master Tholme did it with no difficult

He has killed weaklings with it. Show me an example of Count Dooku killing and incinerating a highly skilled and accomplished Jedi with his Force Lightning.

The air around her began to crackle and grow hot as she gathered herself for the killing blow. Scourge felt the energy building inside her, and he knew he would be powerless to stop it. Nyriss was too powerful; her command of the dark side was too strong.

“Gaze upon me and see your doom!” she declared. “I am Darth Nyriss, Lord of the Sith. I am the conqueror of Drezzi, the destroyer of Melldia, and a member of the Dark Council!”

[B]Scourge braced himself for the end.

Just then, Revan emerged from the cell. He had pulled the hood of his Jedi robe up to cover his head, and he wore the red-and-gray mask, hiding his face.

I see. So, Scourge (who's hardly close to top tier) would have died, so that makes her godly?
Oh, and that says it'd kill him. Palpatine has killed force users with lightning as well. Would Nyriss have left a body? Care to prove otherwise?

His defensive abilities were not sufficient enough. Has he tolerated Force Lightning before?

Read this:

[I]A dozen bolts of lightning sprang from Nyriss’s hand, arcing across the room to incinerate her enemies. Instead of leaping back into the cell to avoid the deadly attack, Revan stepped forward to intercept it.

Both hands were held in front of him, his arms fully extended at shoulder height, his thumbs touching and his fingers splayed wide. He drew the bolts of lightning into his waiting grasp, channeling them away from their intended targets and absorbing their power.

“I am Revan reborn,” he said to Nyriss. “And before me you are nothing.”

Nyriss’s eyes went wide as Revan unleashed the power of her own attack against her. She tried to throw up another Force shield, but the bolts ripped it apart and continued on unabated. The lightning engulfed her, the intense heat consuming her instantly, leaving only a pile of charred ash.Scourge slowly clambered to his feet as Revan helped Meetra up. In the corner, the upended astromech let out a plaintive whistle and awkwardly managed to rock himself back into an upright position.

Nyriss' Force Lightning was deadly to this extent, genius. If Revan had not stepped in, Nyriss would have oblierated Lord Scourge and Jedi Exile simultaneously.

No. Revan absorbed it and released it back at her. That's now HIS power.
Nyriss produced less lightning than a neonate Bane against a talented apprentice and the Exile after failed brain surgery and got owned the minute the big boy stepped in the ring

No, you are overhyping his Force Lightning feats. [/B]

consistently bringing down high levels with it. Sure

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And yet he was stopped. 🙄

Mere statements like these are not enough.

So was Malak, as I recall. Or did you forget that? Palpatine was stopped, but it required the full power of the Jedi before them all and clone sabotage to do it

Nyriss seized on the opportunity to focus all her efforts on breaking through Meetra’s defenses. The Jedi was clearly overmatched; though she managed to hold her ground, she was forced down to one knee.

In the awkward position her right flank was exposed, and Nyriss brought her blade in to deliver a crippling cut. At the same time, Scourge lashed out with the Force, catching Nyriss flush in the center of her chest.

That was a fair engagement. It only proves that how much capable Lord Nyriss actually was.

And as we see, that proves how badly the Exile was written when as the second someone with actual skill steps in...

Lying and deceiving is your forte. Not mine.

Lord Nyriss has easily proven to be among the elites of Star Wars mythos by tooling two expert duelists and highly accomplished warriors simultaneously. You cannot downplay her feat. Both Lord Scourge and Jedi Exile were expert duelists and strong in the Force. [/B]

Two 'expert duelists? ' When was Meetra noted for her 'expert' skills? Scourge was a talented apprentice. Just like Sirak. He's shown nothing to compare to Asajj Ventress, that's for sure.

The fact that an opponent weaker than neonate Bane could best them doesn't speak well for them at all

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Unfortunately, Scourge has nothing going for him that shows him above the level or a guy like Sirak from Path of Destruction. For a start. Certainly nothing on the level of the Pt's heaviest hitters. Let alone Nyriss.

Sirak had no real combat experience outside of the academy. He was a bright and skilled student but he was arrogant and he was not accustomed to unpredictable combat situations, which he could only experience in wars.

While learning in the ways of the Sith, Lord Scourge had similar experiences.

The start;

The first lesson Scourge had learned during his time at the Academy was that your peers could be your most dangerous rivals, Force-users or not.

Then;

At the Academy, lesser students would sometimes conspire together to bring down a more talented individual.

With passage of time;

He had been one of the top students, marked by his superiors for his strength in the Force and his fanatic devotion to the ways of the Sith.

Eventually;

During his time at the Academy, Scourge had discovered that there were many ways to draw upon the power of the Force. His natural talents had led him down the path of the warrior: learning to channel his emotions into strength and raw outbursts of lethal energy. But other students had trained with the Inquisitors, studying a very different curriculum.

Finally;

SCOURGE WAS AN EXPERT SWORDSMAN; at the Academy even the instructors had been reluctant to face him in the training ring. When the dark side flowed through him, his blade was more than a weapon. It became an extension of his will.

A minor sign of his skill;

Instead he performed a complex routine of drills designed to hone his reflexes, all while wearing his heavy armor. His crimson blade hummed as he cycled through the aggressive thrusts and cuts of Juyo, the seventh form of lightsaber combat. The weapon moved so fast that it was nothing but a blur, but each strike was precise and controlled.

After Lord Scourge passed his trials of the academy, he was sent to crush rebellions against the Sith Empire on several planets. He spend 2 years in such duties. His talents and victories eventually caught eye of the influential figures of the True Sith Empire and he was summoned to help Lord Nyriss.

Yet even exiled to the uncivilized sectors on the farthest borders of the Empire, he had still managed to forge his reputation. His martial skills and ruthless pursuit of the rebel leaders caught the notice of several prominent military leaders. Now, two years after leaving the Academy, he had returned to Dromund Kaas as a newly anointed Lord of the Sith. More important, he was here at the personal request of Darth Nyriss, one of the most senior members of the Emperor’s Dark Council.

While Sirak died as an apprentice, Lord Scourge became an accomplished Sith Lord. There goes your comparison.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Your only real point from Nyriss are limited showings and effortless domination from a Jedi weaker than Yoda. Even on that note, her one burst was easily blocked and repelled.

"Most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known"

You understand what the term 'ever known' implies?

It implies that Yoda was the most powerful foe of the darkness for all times and not just to that point, which is not true at all.

In comparison, Revan is different. He was never an absolute foe of the darkness. Even after redemption, Revan used both the Light and Dark sides of the Force when it suited him. Revan was neither a pure Jedi or Sith by nature. His personality was ultimately shaped by his unique understanding of the Force and so were his abilities. People in SWTOR call Revan a Jedi Master but he is different from all Jedi.

He was older and wiser. He understood that the two sides of the Force were more closely intertwined with each other than either the Jedi or the Sith would ever admit. He had learned to balance on the knife-edge between them, drawing on both the light and dark sides for strength.

Another myth busted.

Also, I will quote Sirak here;

"Strength means more then just the ability to use the Force. It means Intelligence. Cunning. Ruthlessness."

While Yoda proved to be powerful in the use of Force, he fell short in other departments. Yoda was not perfect. He thought that he could handle anybody with his powers but Palpatine proved him wrong in just one duel. After this encounter, Yoda never even attempted to do something about the Sith by himself. He just trained Like in the ways of the Jedi and hoped that the Jedi would succeed. Yoda never even tried to stop Darth Vader. Galen and Luke had guts for such a job. So much for the Yoda hype.

In comparison, Revan was willing to go to any length to achieve his objectives. He was never deterred by any setbacks.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Compare to, say, Sedriss summoning a full storm from Ossus's atmospher,e or Galen Marek channeling a lightning storm at kamino.

Hell, Bane of all people, after immediately learning the power, was better with it:

"The smell of burning ozone wafted through the archives, filling Githany’s
nostrils as she watched Bane practicing his latest exercise. The room
crackled and hissed as he channeled the energy of the Force and flung it
about the room in great arcing bolts of blue-violet lightning.
Githany stood with Bane at the center of a maelstrom. A fierce wind swirled
around them, tearing at her hair and the folds of her robe. It rocked and
shook the bookshelves, knocking manuscripts to the floor and rifling their
pages. The air itself was charged with electricity, causing her skin to itch."

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Inform me when Nyriss's lightning was ever differentiated.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I count much more branching off. And given he's immediately killing dozens of men with it...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
YOu used one screenscap when the number is continuously altering. He can clearly be seen with much more in other scenes. Just type in Yoda vs. Darth sidious on youtube

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Such as...

It doesn't matter, either.
Is Revan a foe of the darkness?
Is Yoda?
Yes.
Who is stronger?
Yoda. Easy.

And statement of Yoda that you cling to has been indirectly retconned with passage of time. You never paid attention.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yoda has demonstrated a higher level of it.

Blocking Lightsaber strike with bare hands is not a small feat. Few have demonstrated this skill.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Well, actually Yoda can move starships with the force, yeah

The Imperial Star Destroyer that Galen moved was 1600 m long and had a mass of a million tons.

In comparison, Master Yoda moved two starships that were 210 m long each and weighed lot less then an Imperial Star Destroyer.

Galen' feat is one of the greatest demonstrations of the power of the Force. There is no comparison.

None of these feats establish that how good a Force-user would perform in an unpredictable combat situation in which the combatant has to think a lot. These feats are mean't to keep storylines interesting and impress audiences from artistic point of view.

Galen could not have demolished Yoda in combat. In the same sense, even if Yoda has been claimed to be the most devastatingly powerful foe of darkness ever known; this does not confirms that he was the best possible fighter or he could perform every feat possible with the Force.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I don't have to. He's shown energy absorb on a higher scale. Against actual force power

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It is all but outright stated absorbing and blocking force lightning is far more difficult.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Neither has Nyriss.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Dooku has, however defeated multiple opponents with it. Among them, Asajj Ventress and Sora Bulq.
Neither of whom he aimed to kill

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Jedi: Count Dooku

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And Force Lightning was a power he became adept with. And?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Nobody claimed he was. He is, however, one of them.
Scourge is not

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And he had Obi-wan well bested in just swordplay.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He had him bested at sabers there as well.

"
“I have studied your records from the Academy and observed your battle with the mercenaries in my courtyard,” she said at last. “You have a special gift. You do not just feed on the raw emotions of your foe; you gorge yourself on them. You feast on their primal fear. It amplifies your hate and anger. It fuels the power of the Force. It transforms you into an instrument of death and destruction.”
"

You're saying something different than the book

Here is full quote:

“The Force runs through every living being,” she went on. “When we fight an opponent of flesh and blood, we draw on their emotions, as well. All who follow the dark side instinctively do this on some level—it is so instinctive that most instructors feel it does not need to be taught.” She paused, and again he wondered where she was going with all this.“

I have studied your records from the Academy and observed your battle with the mercenaries in my courtyard,” she said at last. “You have a special gift. You do not just feed on the raw emotions of your foe; you gorge yourself on them. You feast on their primal fear. It amplifies your hate and anger. It fuels the power of the Force. It transforms you into an instrument of death and destruction.”

Lord Scourge is above average in this regard.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You can't even spell 'buffoon' I see.
Show me Meetra Surik's (The Exile's mentally handicapped sister, btw) amazing feats now.

Yet there had been another—a powerful Jedi named Meetra Surik

Revan was impressed by her victory over Sith Triumvirate. Lord Scourge regarded her a Jedi who could prove to be a true test for his own abilities.

We don't see much action from Meetra in the novel. However, below is a brief summary:

She killed Lord Nyriss' 4 top and highly experienced soldiers simultaneously with relative ease; a loss that was realized later when the forces of the Sith Emperor attacked Nyriss' stronghold.

During confrontation with Lord Nyriss, she demonstrated the capability to tolerate lethal bursts of Force Lightning.

During confrontation with the formidable Imperial Guard of the Sith Emperor, Meetra' dueling performance was on par with that of Lord Scourge, an exceptional swordsman.

In the end, she came at a hare's breath of killing the Sith Emperor by her Saber Throw attack. She would have ended Emperor' life, but her objective was saving Revan.

After physical death she refused to become one with the Force, transformed in to a Force Ghost, and continued to help Revan for hundreds of years.

"You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." (Master Obi-Wan to Darth Vader.)

However, Meetra' greatest accomplishment is stopping the Sith Triumviate in the big picture. And it was a very tedious and dangerous task. Where all others failed, she succeeded.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Nyriss is mid-tier. She was owned instantly by someone weaker in the force than Yoda.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Hell, Dooku could, at least, put up a defense

Count Dooku' Force Lightning was no where close to the signature Force Lightning of Nyriss. It was so lethal that Nyriss' own defensive abilities did not worked and she was very strong.

Even a normal burst of Force Lightning from Nyriss was capable of doing this:

A burst of purple lightning arced down the steps, catching both men in the chest. They barely had time to scream before they were turned into charred and smoking husks.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, wow, the second most powerful in the Empire of enormously featless wonders.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Show me her ever doing so. Dooku defeated powerful Jedi with his. He merely didn't desire to kill them

Count Dooku never managed to incinerate any powerful Jedi with his Force Lightning.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Name the canon fights and who they defeated. We'll wait

Lord Scourge was also an accomplished warrior. His exploits in the war have not been described in detail but they were good enough to have drawn attention from the most notable figures within the True Sith Empire.

In the novel; Lord Scourge succeeded in all missions assigned to him by Lord Nyriss. In the end, Sith Emperor bestowed him with the special position of Emperor's wrath and gave him the gift of immortality.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
A 'puny' nightsister? Gethzerion, the strongest, killed an entire squad of stormtroopers with a gesture of her finger.
Nightsisters are rather powerful beings. One even gave Darth Maul a bit of trouble.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Luke deflected Ocheron's storm with his hands before beheading her.

Teneniel could still feel her, twenty meters to their right, and just when Teneniel was sure she was past, a bolt of blue lightning pierced through the haze, struck Teneniel in the breast, jarring her mind, lifting her in the air.

The Nightsister stood before them, flames flying from her fingertips, and Teneniel recognized the hag: Ocheron, a woman who had been powerful in her clan, a woman gifted at deception. Too late, Teneniel realized that Ocheron had caused them to run into her trap.

Ocheron laughed and the blue lightning arced from her fingertips, sucked Teneniel's breath away. She shrieked for help. The flames dug into her like fiery claws. The world reeled, and the blue lightning played over her. It touched a breast, and the breast went so cold it felt as if it had been severed. Tongues of lightning played up her left arm, and the arm seemed to die and wither instantly, like a cut ola vine. A bolt of lightning sizzled into her ear, and all sound left her, another arc touched her eye and half the world went black.

The lightning sucked the very life from each limb it touched? slicing parts of her away like a giant blade. She could not fight it, could not run away. She felt so helpless, she could not even scream as she collapsed.
Time seemed to slow as she fell. Ocheron cackled and the killing fire streamed from her fingers. Teneniel's spell faltered: the wind hushed. Soot and debris still filled the sky like a dark fog, but twigs began to rain down in the storm.

Then there was a flash of blue and the smell of ozone as Luke pulled his lightsaber, switched it on and lunged. Ocheron's eyes widened in surprise at his attack, and she tried to turn her attention to him? too late. The lightsaber struck off her head. Purple flames erupted from her neck like water thundering down a mountain stream, and Luke covered his face, trying to shield himself from the touch of the dark power he'd unleashed.

Seriously, where is the so-called Force Lightning Storm? And when did Luke deflected it with bare hands?

Ocheron unleashed just a single bolt of Force Lightning which was enough to knock out another Witch. You call this impressive? 🙄

And then Luke simply decapitated her with a single strike.

You think that your lies cannot be exposed? 🙄

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Galen died in the attempt, I believe we should recall.

A squadron of stormtroopers ran into the room, led by a limping Darth Vader. They raised their blasters to gun down the Rebels as they fled up the Rogue Shadow's ramp.

"No!" the apprentice cried, dropping his defenses to strike one last time at the Imperials. Energy surged through him. He felt as though a star had blazed to life in his chest. Driven by concern for his friends rather than himself, he embraced the Force completely, utterly, and was rewarded with strength that made his efforts with the dark side look like those of a child. His nerves were on fire. Streamers of light radiated from his skin. His bones glowed like radiant lava.

He saw rather than felt the massive shock wave that consumed a large portion of what remained of the observation dome. A glowing bubble of fire tore the stormtroopers to shreds and engulfed Vader and the Emperor. Shrapnel filled the air like dust caught in the beam of the Death Star's powerful laser.

Tossed like a leaf, the Rogue Shadow fled in haste, ramp snapping shut on its precious cargo.

The apprentice felt himself leaving his body again. Or was his body leaving him this time? He felt ripped apart by the energy that had flowed through him. Every cell was in shock; every fiber shook. The fire on his face possessed no heat at all. His limbs felt as distant as the farthest arms of the galaxy. He was amazed there was enough left of him to think at all.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
For reference, Starkiller II was channeling an entire storm of energy against Vader on Kamino and failed to defeat him (Oh, Starkiller? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki16YJPZ1GQ WAY more than 13 bolts)

Here;

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Whereas Palpatine's lightning mortally wounded Vader

Originally posted by Lightsnake
"Weaker than" =/= "a joker in comparison to."
Projecting a little?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Nihilus is specifically noted to have power without command. The others are, again, weaker than people like Yoda and Palpatine

His only notable drawback was that he could not control his hunger. His hunger controlled him. Don't make abusurd claims.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Prove it. It references Palpatine as stronger in the context of his fight with Yoda and the novelization indicates Palpatine's amazing power as well

And it is a vague statement. Palpatine has been stated to be most powerful in vague sense. It is not explicitly stated that Palpatine surpassed all of his predecessors in power when he faced Master Yoda.

Also, when the New Essential Chronology was written; Lord Vitiate was not introduced. Darth Plagueis was also an unknown, and neither Darth Nihilus is mentioned in it. Under the light of missing information, it was easy for the author to consider Darth Sidious as most powerful Sith Lord.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Only one has any feats of which worth mentioning.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
"Most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known"
Yoda>Revan

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yoda had 900 years of study compared to Revan's paltry decades, if you like that game.

Power is not everything.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yoda is referred to as the 'fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful'

Originally posted by Lightsnake
and described as 'the master of all Jedi' while Palpatine is the 'lord of all Sith'.

Yoda was the grand master of the Jedi Order. Obviously, he trained every Jedi to a certain level in his time.

Same point applies to Sith. And Palpatine is not the only Sith Lord with impressive showings.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Stupid analogy. Yoda is incredible with the saber and the Force.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Galen pulled it down. We've seen Yoda lift several huge landing craft, and he's made it clear that's not the extent of his abilities

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine was capable of binding the spirits of Ancient Sith to his will for rituals on a cosmic scale at that juncture.

Lord Vitiate lived for over 1000 years. We know very little about his history. But even with limited information, he appears to be incredibly powerful.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Let's look at how he's described as well. The darkness beyond darkness, the event horizon in the Force...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Clone Wars issue 76 and 77. Master Tholme did it with no difficult

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Nyriss killed weaklings with it.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Unlike her, Dooku has defeated impressive beings with it.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Right. It wasn't to distract Yoda or anything, right?
He did want to kill Obi-wan. Anakin was another story. Palpatine wanted anakin to join them, Dooku knew.

Nyriss’s eyes went wide as Revan unleashed the power of her own attack against her. She tried to throw up another Force shield, but the bolts ripped it apart and continued on unabated. The lightning engulfed her, the intense heat consuming her instantly, leaving only a pile of charred ash.

And Nyriss was stronger then both Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik who were also powerful individuals.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
So Dooku keeps blasting him into submission, Savage admits he can't kill Dooku for his power.

Show me some incredible feat of Count Dooku with his Force Lightning.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And you're using this to DOWNPLAY dooku? Nevermind that Savage is better than Ventress, who's taken on Council Members
Sure;

So what if some victims of Assaj were Council Member? Council Members are not necessarily the most powerful individuals in the Jedi Order. This has been proven from history of Star Wars. I bet that Anakin Skywalker was better then those Council Members.

Another example: Revan was the most powerful Jedi of his time and he was not a Council Member.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I see. So, Scourge (who's hardly close to top tier) would have died, so that makes her godly?
Oh, and that says it'd kill him. Palpatine has killed force users with lightning as well. Would Nyriss have left a body? Care to prove otherwise?

Also, Nyriss' Force Lightning would have incinerated him just in the manner of her own fate. This is indication of how powerful her signature Force Lightning.

Don't try to act smart here.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, he was hit from behind.

As I have asked before, has he faced Force Lightning assaults before?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Maul tolerated lightning from Mighella and Palpatine could turn him to ash any time he wanted to.

And I have yet to see even Palaptine incinerating a big name with his Force Lightning.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Has Scourge?

Scourge nodded at the guards. In response to his silent command they crept to the foot of the stairs and peered up toward the door above.

A burst of purple lightning arced down the steps, catching both men in the chest. They barely had time to scream before they were turned into charred and smoking husks.

Scourge took a step back, knowing exactly who had been responsible for unleashing the fury of the dark side against the hapless guards.

Nyriss made her way slowly down the stairs, the outspread fingers of her left hand still crackling with electricity. In her right hand she held her lightsaber, the blade humming softly. By the time she reached the bottom, Meetra had emerged from the nearby cell.

She ignited her lightsaber and came to stand beside Scourge.

“What’s this?” Nyriss asked, her voice mocking. “Another Jedi?”

When neither of them answered, she turned her head to the side and laughed bitterly.

“The Imperial Guard will make sure I never leave my stronghold alive,” she told them. “But neither will any of you.”

She raised her free hand above her head and fired off another burst of lightning. Both Scourge and Meetra threw themselves clear of the deadly electrical bolt, but in doing so they gave Nyriss the early advantage.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
They were powerful enough to defend against Vader, and revive Maul, btw

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Show me Nyriss doing the same. Dooku could have killed Sora and Asajj had he chosen

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No. Revan absorbed it and released it back at her. That's now HIS power.

Nyriss’s eyes went wide as Revan unleashed the power of her own attack against her. She tried to throw up another Force shield, but the bolts ripped it apart and continued on unabated. The lightning engulfed her, the intense heat consuming her instantly, leaving only a pile of charred ash.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Nyriss produced less lightning than a neonate Bane against a talented apprentice

Originally posted by Lightsnake
and the Exile after failed brain surgery and got owned the minute the big boy stepped in the ring

Originally posted by Lightsnake
consistently bringing down high levels with it. Sure

Originally posted by Lightsnake
So was Malak, as I recall. Or did you forget that?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine was stopped, but it required the full power of the Jedi before them all and clone sabotage to do it

Only the efforts of his sister Leia saved him from eternal darkness. If not for her, the Emperor might have triumphed.

Source: The Dark Empire Sourcebook.

And it took the Jedi Order's most powerful CHAMPION to bring down Darth Malak at his prime. According to Drew, it would have been a long and vicious duel.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And as we see, that proves how badly the Exile was written when as the second someone with actual skill steps in...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Two 'expert duelists? ' When was Meetra noted for her 'expert' skills? Scourge was a talented apprentice. Just like Sirak. He's shown nothing to compare to Asajj Ventress, that's for sure.

Lord Scourge was not just a talented apprentice. He was an accomplished Sith Lord by the time of KOTOR 2. And you cannot prove that Assaj was better duelist then Lord Scourge. Nothing in her description suggests as such. Lord Scourge' blade could become an extension of his will. When he tapped in to his rage, he could become an instrument of death and destruction.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The fact that an opponent weaker than neonate Bane could best them doesn't speak well for them at all

Going with Sidious. Revan may be able redirect Palps lightning but nothing puts him on an equal level with a saber.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Dooku defeated Obi-wan, the greatest Soresu master who ever lived.

Where exactly is this stated?

I assume its a simple guesstimation based on that he's the best we've seen.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I assume its a simple guesstimation based on that he's the best we've seen.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Which would be an incredibly idiotic thing to say. If we weren't told, we wouldn't know it was Soresu.

While not particularly polite, this is a point; we don't know very many Soresu users in canon. Of dedicated practitioners (not dabblers), I can name two: Unduli and Kenobi.

Zannah?

Didn't read those novels, actually. I have no excuse, since I have them digitally somewhere, but yeah.

Lord Nyriss was the second most powerful opponent that Revan encountered in the True Sith Empire. She was not some mid-tier level boss.

*Spoiler*

Your precious Revan gets taken out by the Empire in a mid-level flashpoint by 4 mid-tier players.

Great argument. That is, it would be if you weren't discussing a beta, and a build that no longer exists. In the newer builds, Revan doesn't die in either the Republic or Empire flashpoints. And the jedi/sith in the storylines are apparently uber powerful, as stupid as that is. But good try.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Great argument. That is, it would be if you weren't discussing a beta, and a build that no longer exists. In the newer builds, Revan doesn't die in either the Republic or Empire flashpoints. And the jedi/sith in the storylines are apparently uber powerful, as stupid as that is. But good try.

Lol Revan still dies. The only difference now is that he explodes in an Emperor Palpatine esq fashion. Try again.
Fanboys are waaaing all over the tor boards

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Lol Revan still dies. The only difference now is that he explodes in an Emperor Palpatine esq fashion. Try again.
Fanboys are waaaing all over the tor boards