Thor (Without Mjolnir) VS Wolverine ---Revised Thread

Originally posted by wildernesss
thor's senses would not be as good as logan's in this scenario.

Is this some kind of rule that depowers Thor or are you just assuming he can't see in the dark?

Originally posted by wildernesss
as for thor beating logan with his fists....thor has repeatedly demonstrated the inability to connect with hammer strikes against logan while admitting logan is faster than he is.

Thor misses Logan with two hits. On the flip side, his able to block two attacks (One from behind), grab Logan's ankle, and swat Logan away while he attacked his back. That's not counting the ground and pound as well as the lightning.

Logan has the edge in raw speed according to that comic, but this is hardly Quicksilver vs. the Thing.

Originally posted by wildernesss
not to mention the fact that class 100+ characters not being able to KO him is the rule, not the exception. then add the fact that this is at night in area familiar to logan & unfamiliar to thor....then add logan's stealth....and logan wins a majority.

Like I said earlier, Thor hits the ground hard enough to destroy anything in a few miles. Why waste time in close combat while unarmed when he already knows it's the least effective way to fight him.

Does anyone want to sit down and make a list of all the things/characters that have managed to knock out Logan?

Originally posted by -Pr-
If I were you I wouldn't make statements about others bias... Just saying.

And why would that be?

I guess to some people it it might seem like I have a sort of pro-Wolverine agenda but I don't, what I have - if indeed I have an agenda at all - is a believe that all characters should be judged fairly on the merits of their feats. Sadly as far as Wolverine is concerned that isn't the case on KMC. If I saw any other character being misrepresented and discredited on whim, then I would (and have in the past) step in and say something provided I was knowledgeable enough to do so. There is a general attitude on this forum where it is considered cool or at the very least acceptable to discredit Wolverine's feats and virtually write him off completely, and frankly as a mod you are partially to blame. A Powerless Shang-Chi vs Thor thread gets closed almost immediately because it is obviously spite. What happened to the Powerless Wolverine vs Thor thread? It's just as much of a spite thread as the Shang-Chi thread... and it's still open. Whether or not you intend to, you are fostering the generally negative attitude people on this forum have towards Wolverine. It would be great if my post weren't necessary but on KMC if your opinion of Wolverine isn't build around a foundation of him getting kicked in the face by a deer, Punisher hitting him in the nuts with a baseball bat or Daredevil punching him in the throat, then you are a fan boy. I'm not sure if it just a general lack of information on the character (something Jinzin, Battlehammer, Stiltman and I worked very hard to remedy with the Wolverine respect thread) or merely "lawl Wolverine loses" was become the stupid forum troll antithesis of "Batman always wins!" but regardless of why, the attitude exists and flourishes on KMC with tons of nurturing all around, and there has been very little effort done to discourage it.

I don't have a Wolverine bias, he isn't even my favorite Marvel street level character, but what he is is the character that is being misrepresented on KMC the most (and has been for a very long time). There are several characters I read more of and prefer to Wolverine, they just aren't in a position where they are constantly being discredited and undersold so my intervention is not needed to sift throw all the bs for any one happening to be reading the forums who reads all the crap about Wolverine being said and doesn't know any better. I think I am completely reasonable about what fights Wolverine can and can't win, I don't think he can beat the Hulk, I don't even think he can beat Spider-man... but I know he takes the majority form any and all melee bricks relying on the strength + durability power combo. The reality is that any character that is forced to engage with Wolverine in pure melee combat (as Thor is per the stipulations of this thread) is in a world of trouble. Talking pure melee view and ignoring ranged options, if a character lacks super speed significant enough to avoid Wolverine's attacks, a healing factor fast enough to compensate for Wolverine's damage during the fight, true invulnerability so they can turn his claws, or a more exotic power like intangibility, then that character will lose the majority against Wolverine. It's that simple. Anyone is welcome to disagree with that stance... but if they did they'd be wrong.

You don't see the contradictory nature of your post?

Feel free to illuminate me.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No, it is hard to believe and completely unjustifiable. Nothing Thor has done on panel with his "thousands of years of combat experience" even hints at the suggestion that he is even in the same league as the martial arts big guns.

Yes. Wolverine would beat Hercules. Easily.

This is fanboysim to the extreme.

Both Thor and Hercules can easily match any mortal in combat abilities.

And Hercules would crush Wolverine.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
This is fanboysim to the extreme.

Both Thor and Hercules can easily match any mortal in combat abilities.

And Hercules would crush Wolverine.

This is something I've said also but given their martial feats they being Thor and Hercules don't use much finesse in their martial displays and tend to engage in just brawl types fights.

Wolverine on the other hand has alot of feats displaying both finsse and skill so in this particular instance with him using his healing factor and claws vs Thor with no hammer and no powers to speak of it just makes sense Wolverine would win.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Is this some kind of rule that depowers Thor or are you just assuming he can't see in the dark?

Thor misses Logan with two hits. On the flip side, his able to block two attacks (One from behind), grab Logan's ankle, and swat Logan away while he attacked his back. That's not counting the ground and pound as well as the lightning.

Logan has the edge in raw speed according to that comic, but this is hardly Quicksilver vs. the Thing.

Like I said earlier, Thor hits the ground hard enough to destroy anything in a few miles. Why waste time in close combat while unarmed when he already knows it's the least effective way to fight him.

Does anyone want to sit down and make a list of all the things/characters that have managed to knock out Logan?

Nice post by Rage i would like to add 1 more thing has far as 100+Bricks not being able to but Logan down it is well within Thor's strength to ko logan or turn Logans brain it soup just like WWH did.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
This is fanboysim to the extreme.

Both Thor and Hercules can easily match any mortal in combat abilities.

And Hercules would crush Wolverine.

Hercules and Thor can't hold a candle to guys like Wolverine in terms of combat skill. Plain and simple. The reality of the situation is that their thousands of years of combat experience are rendered largely irrelevant because in practice they don't have any skill feats to rival those of the top tier MAs. Believing for a second that either Thor or Hercules are capable of contending with the best street MAs is completely unjustifiable based on their histories and the epitome of blind fanboy nonsense. Age only accounts for some much, Thor isn't as skilled as top tier MAs anymore than Selina or Vandal Savage are. Regardless of their age they lack adequate skill feats. Simple. Wolverine has beat a aeons old Angel of Death in martial combat hundreds of times. Experience in and of itself holds very little weight, Wolverine is not innately more skilled than Batman because he is older than Batman, he is more skilled because he has better skill feats, something that isn't true for Thor or Herc. Perhaps the two should be as skilled as Wolverine, but what they should be and what they actually are are two different things, and what they are is not skilled enough to mentioned in the same sentence as Wolverine.

Wolverine would fold up Hercules like a lawn chair.

Yea...still waiting on those 144-168 examples of Wolverine taking cl 100 hits.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Yea...still waiting on those 144-168 examples of Wolverine taking cl 100 hits.

The dozen or so times Wolverine and Hulk have fought, multiplied by how many hits Wolverine has taken in each of those fights. Done. Then you can do the same with every other class 100 his fought (Wendigo, Thing, Namor, Wonderman, Red Hulk, She Hulk, ect ect ect ect). The numbers aren't even close buddy.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The dozen or so times Wolverine and Hulk have fought, multiplied by how many hits Wolverine has taken in each of those fights. Done. Then you can do the same with every other class 100 his fought (Wendigo, Thing, Namor, Wonderman, Red Hulk, She Hulk, ect ect ect ect). The numbers aren't even close buddy.

1 fight = 1 example.

Now, back up your claim that there are dozens of examples of him taking cl 100 hits for every example of him being hurt by less.

Otherwise, I start counting up all the times Wolverine has been shot and then you'll be stuck with trying to provide thousands of examples of Logan taking cl 100 hits.

Originally posted by Silent Master
1 fight = 1 example.

Now, back up your claim that there are dozens of examples of him taking cl 100 hits for every example of him being hurt by less.

Otherwise, I start counting up all the times Wolverine has been shot and then you'll be stuck with trying to provide thousands of examples of Logan taking cl 100 hits.

'Fraid not. Every single time Wolverine takes a class 100 hit without being koed is weighed and measured against every time he has been koed by less. Sometimes he takes dozens of class 100 blows in the span of a single fight.

I'm not sure you even understand what you are trying to do... do you have a learning disability? You are trying to prove that Wolverine can't take a class 100 punch... how does him tanking tanking thousands of bullets help that cause? I suspected something was up when the majority of the characters you cited have never actually koed Wolverine, but I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. You are looking for examples of Wolverine being koed by less than class 100 blows, there aren't many, hell there aren't many of him being koed period regardless of the source.

If your going to count every single cl 100 hit as a different example, that means every single attack below cl 100 counts as a different example....which in turn means that Wolverine now has thousands of examples of being hurt by less than cl 100 force compared to less than a hundred examples of taking cl 100 hits.

Congrats, you just proved that Logan taking cl 100 hits is PIS and thus don't count.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If your going to count every single cl 100 hit as a different example, that means every single attack below cl 100 counts as a different example....which in turn means that Wolverine now has thousands of examples of being hurt by less than cl 100 force compared to less than a hundred examples of taking cl 100 hits.

Congrats, you just proved that Logan taking cl 100 hits is PIS and thus don't count.

You'd be on to something... if every single attack below class 100 koed him. I'm arguing that Wolverine can tank class 100 blows, ergo every time he takes a class 100 blow supports my claim. You are arguing he can be koed by less then class 100, therefor only instances in which he is koed count. Him getting punched by a street level does nothing for your claim unless he gets koed by it. You really don't understand the difference? Are you really that stupid?

If Logan has far more examples of being hurt by below cl 100 hits, then the ones of him taking cl 100 hits are PIS....just like all the examples of Deathstroke hitting FTL characters are PIS because he has far more examples of having trouble with less.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If Logan has far more examples of being hurt by below cl 100 hits, then the ones of him taking cl 100 hits are PIS....just like all the examples of Deathstroke hitting FTL characters are PIS because he has far more examples of having trouble with less.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If Logan has far more examples of being hurt by below cl 100 hits, then the ones of him taking cl 100 hits are PIS....just like all the examples of Deathstroke hitting FTL characters are PIS because he has far more examples of having trouble with less.

Wolverine has human level durability, he can get hurt by everything, he can get stung by a bee or get a paper cut while writing a rent check... he just heals. What hurts him is irrelevant, his damage soak doesn't come to him by virtue of high end durability, it comes from his healing factor. What it takes to ko Wolverine is what we talking about, what you need to find are examples where his healing factor is overloaded from less then a class 100 source.

Um.... I think you two are arguing slightly different points.

srankmissingnin is right. Wolverine's powerset allows him to take class 100 without being KO'd.

Silent Master is arguing that Wolverine can be "hurt" by less. He is also right. Honestly, a punch from even me would still register to Wolverine as a punch. Wolverine has, basically, human durability. The problem is that he heals from those blows.

This does not make his fights against class 100s PIS though.

Edit: srank beat me to it.

Healing doesn't allow someone to take cl 100 hits, it would allow them to heal the damage from them, however Wolverine isn't shown taking massive damage from them and then healing. he's shown taking them as regular punches.

Therefore we compare the times he takes them with the times he's hurt by less...just like we compare the times Slade has hit Flash level characters and compare it to the times he's had trouble with less.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Healing doesn't allow someone to take cl 100 hits, it would allow them to heal the damage from them, however Wolverine isn't shown taking massive damage from them and then healing. he's shown taking them as regular punches.

Therefore we compare the times he takes them with the times he's hurt by less...just like we compare the times Slade has hit Flash level characters and compare it to the times he's had trouble with less.

What are you even talking about? Nothing you are saying makes any sense. He takes them like "regular punches" because that's how fast his healing factor is. Bone claw Wolverine once got ran over by a truck while his vitals were being monitored by the X-Men, he completely flat lined, every organ in his body was ruptured and every bone was broken... and he was 100% by the time the car rolled off of him and sped off. We even have narration where Wolverine says every time he takes a hit form the Hulk it turns all his muscles and organs into soup, he just heals before the next punch lands. That's how fast his healing factor is.

Slade failing to hit streets and then tagging speedsters isn't even a remotely comparable example. Wolverine gets hurt by everything, he has human level durability, him getting hurt by streets doesn't change the fact that he heals fast enough to tank class 100 blows, and I can't even fathom why you think it does.