Edit: Wrong thread, but I'll leave that there...
Originally posted by The Scenario
Depends on how well they fly, it's likely to throw everyone everywhere.Quite a few would still be injured by a 30 tonner (I got the weight of the metal block, btw) shoving a sword into their chests. That would pierce quite a few of them.
I think you're missing the point here. Ganondorf has fire resistance, but a weakness to light based and holy weapons. The Light Beam has exactly the same feats of incinerating creatures that the plasma beam does, and it's a weakness, so it's a much more effective weapon against Ganondorf than something he would have resistance to. Any particular reason you're arguing that Ganondorf, who has fire resistance, would be hurt by the plasma beam but at the same time claiming that Kain, who has a vulnerability to fire, would not be hurt? It's also funny how the thing that busted the castle was a spear (i.e: sharp point) wielded by a much stronger character than Raziel hitting Ganon and that the explosion was purely collateral damage. Really, if you're trying to suggest that Raziel could replicate any of Midna's feats, you're going to need better evidence.
Sure thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMG6chL_YrI#t=5m5s (Link throws the infamous pillar into one of Ganondorf's forcefields. The pillar breaks.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0k71V57Ko (You've seen it a million times, but here's Midna breaking the barrier around Hyrule Castle and exhausting herself.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXeJdB9_-zQ#t=4m (This is the above barrier being formed.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj6vXjrZmfw#t=4m (Sidelining Midna)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx0Yfg6EasQ#t=32s (Sidelining Zelda)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFHT4Y6-UMk#t=46s (Fire barrier because why not.)
I would like to see your math for this 30 tons, it sounds like extrapolation.
Kains more durable, and Midna never bust a castle through force, not that force would work like that and Ganon was not in any of his physical regular forms, theres also no strength feat I have seen for Midna picking up anything alike to Raziels.
Do we know all those forcefields are made by Ganon or how long it takes to make them? Also a pillar has little to no durabity. Barriers completly different to the last one and thats not physical, it shattered like glass btw. So far the only forcefields we see made are featless ones to cut off the Arena Link fights Ganon in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMG6chL_YrI#t=5m5s (Link throws the infamous pillar into one of Ganondorf's forcefields.
I really should stop and take a moment to illustrate just how impressive this is.
http://www.ohgizmo.com/2008/02/01/navy-test-fires-10-megajoule-railgun-holy-cow/
Double digit megajoules... Yep. Ten is enough to fire a slug clean through a tank. (Actually, nine... With a two kg projectile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun )
The impact from a projectile fired from a 64 MJ version of the cannon is expected to surpass a tomahawk missile in destructive capability. 😎
That pillar is in the gigajoule range, and pointed. haermm Thanks for reminding me of that feat, Scenario. Ah lawdy. That Ganondorf guy.
Hm, officially, where is your money on fight two, Scen?
@Aura
Also, thanks Aura. I'm actually surprised, I figured Sora must have a better durability feat than falling at terminal velocity? Are you sure? Because that kind of allows Ganon or Ghirahim to one-shot him. :/
@Everywun, but mostly Scenario
Which reminds me: Strategeh! Ghirahim in "I'm made of mother****ing Nintendium" form holds off Sora while Ganon takes the fight to Samus ftw?
I'd argue TK is Ganondorf's answer to a screw attack, and that he can probably defend himself from the light beam, but maybe not. I base that on him defending himself from the light arrows on occasion. With Sora distracting him in a scenario mirroring the end of Wind Waker, I could see the light beam certainly being problematic depending how destructive it is. Do you feel it stacks up to Link's magic arrows?
Beam stacking probably allows Samus to mix the light beam with her "haha, I can shoot through things 😄!" wavebeam, huh? Though, MP2 didn't use beam stacking, but it came back in three. /Shrug We could call that a maybe?
I /do/ believe, to be blunt, that one to one, Samus would lose to Ganondorf. I suppose that much is obvious seeing as I made this thread, lol. But hey, we'll see, right?
Also, thanks Aura. I'm actually surprised, I figured Sora must have a better durability feat than falling at terminal velocity? Are you sure? Because that kind of allows Ganon or Ghirahim to one-shot him. :/
Sora is teh fragile speedster/lightning bruiser I guess.
It has been ages since I looked at Sora's feats. He probably has some better ones.
Anywho, he is a teleporter with Hercule's strength. Should still be a threat either way.
Not sure about gigajoule but its a huge lump of rock not moving at high speed unlike the railguns so I dont know how they were relevent, all that proves is that the granite can take less force than the barrier. Also I have never seen Ganon with good reaction times so the above makes Sora more than a threat.
Originally posted by Burning thought
I would like to see your math for this 30 tons, it sounds like extrapolation.
5ft*5ft*5ft=125ft^3
125*490 (iron)=61250lbs
61250/2000=30tons.
Kains more durable, and Midna never bust a castle through force, not that force would work like that and Ganon was not in any of his physical regular forms, theres also no strength feat I have seen for Midna picking up anything alike to Raziels.
You mean when Midna used a spear to slam into Ganon she wasn't using any force? She blew up the castle, that's thousands of tons tossed up in the air as a side effect. That's much, much better than anything Raziel has ever done, and quite frankly I'm surprised you'd even compare them.
Do we know all those forcefields are made by Ganon or how long it takes to make them? Also a pillar has little to no durabity. Barriers completly different to the last one and thats not physical, it shattered like glass btw. So far the only forcefields we see made are featless ones to cut off the Arena Link fights Ganon in.
Yes, as it's in Ganon's castle and you need to bring down Ganon's barrier to into Ganon's tower so you can fight Ganon. The pillar is a giant block of granite, that slamming into the shield gives the barrier massive durability. Glass is physical...what are you saying here? It exhausted Midna to break that one, and it's the same type he used during the fights.
Originally posted by ScreampasteI'd argue TK is Ganondorf's answer to a screw attack, and that he can probably defend himself from the light beam, but maybe not. I base that on him defending himself from the light arrows on occasion. With Sora distracting him in a scenario mirroring the end of Wind Waker, I could see the light beam certainly being problematic depending how destructive it is. Do you feel it stacks up to Link's magic arrows?
I think Samus could escape TK with a good Space Jump if she needs to. I expect the Light Beam can harm him to some degree precisely because the Light Arrows can stun or harm him. The Light Beam has some feats of disintegration, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5AwbsRHSC0#t=40s
It'll one shot weaker enemies, but Ing take a few.
Beam stacking probably allows Samus to mix the light beam with her "haha, I can shoot through things !" wavebeam, huh? Though, MP2 didn't use beam stacking, but it came back in three. /Shrug We could call that a maybe?
I'm going to have to go with no, but you know. It'd be better if we went with ones we know can stack.
I dunno about one on one, to be honest.
Originally posted by The Scenario
5ft*5ft*5ft=125ft^3
125*490 (iron)=61250lbs
61250/2000=30tons.You mean when Midna used a spear to slam into Ganon she wasn't using any force? She blew up the castle, that's thousands of tons tossed up in the air as a side effect. That's much, much better than anything Raziel has ever done, and quite frankly I'm surprised you'd even compare them.
Yes, as it's in Ganon's castle and you need to bring down Ganon's barrier to into Ganon's tower so you can fight Ganon. The pillar is a giant block of granite, that slamming into the shield gives the barrier massive durability. Glass is physical...what are you saying here? It exhausted Midna to break that one, and it's the same type he used during the fights.
I like how your mathing it as a solid cube and 5ft? how old is Link in this game? because if its a young link, mathing it compared to him as 6ft which is lulz worthy anyway is going to give wrong numbers.
Also can you quote where you showed the block, not sure it was in the thread, I cant find it.
She didnt slam into anyone, we dont see that and I would like your reasoning how you can slam into a disembodied head, if anything she hardly moved, ive seen her hands move at speed, the ones holding the spear and grasp/smash into Zant with greater force and he barely moved nor did the environment around him, he just died so I argue little physical force and more magic. And no, not exactly thousands of tons and your claiming its midna, I still stand by Ganon as the culprit and magic, not force.
That barrier looks completly different to some of the others I have seen him make, show me him making one alike to that on the fly. Well no, as I said the barrier shattered the granite, proving it can simply take the force of granite being tossed a few meters/second, thats not massive in any respect.
And no, not exactly thousands of tons and your claiming its midna, I still stand by Ganon as the culprit and magic, not force.
THERE IS SO MUCH WRONGNESS HERE.
1. You're right, it's more.
2. We never see Ganondorf attack, unlike, y'know, Midna, thnx 4 all ur ass-umpchunz.
3. Occam's razor.
4. How do you blow up a ****ing castle without force? That is some ****ing oddly specific magic.
So to summarise, in a single sentence you're assuming, misattributing, fabricating, denying, being wrong about physics, and downplaying. ALL AT ONCE.
Impressive.
Edit:
And worse, you're derailing and sidetracking my thread, killing the actual debate. It's any wonder the forum is so dead, no one can get an actual discussion going with you crusading against everything that's not Kain.
Shoo. Keep this up and I'll report you for dickheadery.
Originally posted by Burning thought
I like how your mathing it as a solid cube and 5ft? how old is Link in this game? because if its a young link, mathing it compared to him as 6ft which is lulz worthy anyway is going to give wrong numbers.
I like how I mathed it, too, because it is a solid block and 5ft is a fine estimation given that it's actually a bit larger. Did you miss that this Link was supposed to be one of the oldest in the series, actually an adult this time around?
Also can you quote where you showed the block, not sure it was in the thread, I cant find it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4wLR0TNPiI
She didnt slam into anyone, we dont see that and I would like your reasoning how you can slam into a disembodied head, if anything she hardly moved, ive seen her hands move at speed, the ones holding the spear and grasp/smash into Zant with greater force and he barely moved nor did the environment around him, he just died so I argue little physical force and more magic. And no, not exactly thousands of tons and your claiming its midna, I still stand by Ganon as the culprit and magic, not force.
If you're saying that Midna didn't physically slam her body into anyone, you're right. If, on the other hand, you're saying that Midna didn't slam her spear into anyone, you're sorely mistaken. Magic can produce physical force, not sure why you'd think otherwise. The evidence shows Midna, and yes it was magic but if you think that means there isn't force you're still wrong. It's a magic weapon that rather obviously produced enough force to blow up a castle.
That barrier looks completly different to some of the others I have seen him make, show me him making one alike to that on the fly. Well no, as I said the barrier shattered the granite, proving it can simply take the force of granite being tossed a few meters/second, thats not massive in any respect.
Which barrier? All the yellow twilighty ones are the same and I've shown them all going up in similar timeframes. The barrier taking and breaking the granite is actually quite impressive given the amount of force Link was exerting there, you can downplay it if you want but it's still better than anything Kain could do.
Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
http://shoryuken.com/2011/10/12/kevin-slackie-interviews-seth-killian/Both Oni and Shin Evil Ryu ACTUALLY HAPPENED in SFIV.
Now see, this is just stupid. Not only does it make very lil sense for current cannon, it f**ks up what was previously established. And people wonder why I don't pay attention to the "story" anymore.
Originally posted by The Scenario
I like how I mathed it, too, because it is a solid block and 5ft is a fine estimation given that it's actually a bit larger. Did you miss that this Link was supposed to be one of the oldest in the series, actually an adult this time around?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4wLR0TNPiI
If you're saying that Midna didn't physically slam her body into anyone, you're right. If, on the other hand, you're saying that Midna didn't slam her spear into anyone, you're sorely mistaken. Magic can produce physical force, not sure why you'd think otherwise. The evidence shows Midna, and yes it was magic but if you think that means there isn't force you're still wrong. It's a magic weapon that rather obviously produced enough force to blow up a castle.
Which barrier? All the yellow twilighty ones are the same and I've shown them all going up in similar timeframes. The barrier taking and breaking the granite is actually quite impressive given the amount of force Link was exerting there, you can downplay it if you want but it's still better than anything Kain could do.
Ah ok, its hollow. See the nails holding it together? you dont use nails to hold together a solid block of metal.
Just claims of "your wrong", you did no better than scream here.
Kain could slice it apart based on feats and comparison although thats besides the point, the fact is, their not the same. That shadowy looking thing that takes the pillar is unique to the brighter ones used against midna.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
THERE IS SO MUCH WRONGNESS HERE.1. You're right, it's [b]more
.
2. We never see Ganondorf attack, unlike, y'know, Midna, thnx 4 all ur ass-umpchunz.
3. Occam's razor.
4. How do you blow up a ****ing castle without force? That is some ****ing oddly specific magic.So to summarise, in a single sentence you're assuming, misattributing, fabricating, denying, being wrong about physics, and downplaying. ALL AT ONCE.
Impressive.
Edit:
And worse, you're derailing and sidetracking my thread, killing the actual debate. It's any wonder the forum is so dead, no one can get an actual discussion going with you crusading against everything that's not Kain.
Shoo. Keep this up and I'll report you for dickheadery. [/B]
I dont really have to reply to this angry little rant, other than "reported".
Originally posted by Burning thought
Ah ok, its hollow. See the nails holding it together? you dont use nails to hold together a solid block of metal.
Only if you assume that they're nails when this is not necessarily true. Nor is it a given that a solid block would not have nails.
Just claims of "your wrong", you did no better than scream here.
In which case, are you going to respond or just dismiss it?
Kain could slice it apart based on feats and comparison although thats besides the point, the fact is, their not the same. That shadowy looking thing that takes the pillar is unique to the brighter ones used against midna.
Please be more specific, it's hard to tell it "it" is the Ganon's Tower (GT) barrier or the Hyrule Castle (HC) barrier when you're that vague. What is the shadowy thing? There's no real difference between the barrier around HC and the ones Ganondorf uses during his boss fights.
Originally posted by The Scenario
Only if you assume that they're nails when this is not necessarily true. Nor is it a given that a solid block would not have nails.In which case, are you going to respond or just dismiss it?
Please be more specific, it's hard to tell it "it" is the Ganon's Tower (GT) barrier or the Hyrule Castle (HC) barrier when you're that vague. What is the shadowy thing? There's no real difference between the barrier around HC and the ones Ganondorf uses during his boss fights.
What could possibly look like that? reach all you like.
Dismiss it, I cant reply to "your wrong", its not an argument tbh.
The dark barrier Links pillar hits is different to those in TP.
Originally posted by Burning thought
What could possibly look like that? reach all you like.
It's a few circles on a metal block, what doesn't it look like?
Dismiss it, I cant reply to "your wrong", its not an argument tbh.
So did you just stop reading when I said that or what? There were more words there.
The dark barrier Links pillar hits is different to those in TP.
That is true. Why is that relevant, though?
Originally posted by The Scenario
It's a few circles on a metal block, what doesn't it look like?So did you just stop reading when I said that or what? There were more words there.
That is true. Why is that relevant, though?
It doesnt look like solid metal. It looks like a line of nails holding what looks exactly like a "heavy" cargo crate.
Thats pretty much all you said in no uncertain terms.
You used a feat for an irrelevent barrier then showed evidence for Ganon making a diffrent barrier as if their comparable or relevent.
Originally posted by Burning thought
It doesnt look like solid metal. It looks like a line of nails holding what looks exactly like a "heavy" cargo crate.
But it does look like heavy metal, nor does it really look like a crate. The circles appear more like a stylistic choice to me.
Thats pretty much all you said in no uncertain terms.
If you're saying that Midna didn't physically slam her body into anyone, you're right. If, on the other hand, you're saying that Midna didn't slam her spear into anyone, you're sorely mistaken. Magic can produce physical force, not sure why you'd think otherwise. The evidence shows Midna, and yes it was magic but if you think that means there isn't force you're still wrong. It's a magic weapon that rather obviously produced enough force to blow up a castle.
That's more than just two words.
You used a feat for an irrelevent barrier then showed evidence for Ganon making a diffrent barrier as if their comparable or relevent.
I don't recall saying they were comparable. I'm just comparing the Hyrule Castle barrier and the ones used to sideline Midna and Zelda.