The 25th Anniversary Zelda Villain Gauntlet

Originally posted by The Scenario
But it does look like heavy metal, nor does it really look like a crate. The circles appear more like a stylistic choice to me.

That's more than just two words.

I don't recall saying they were comparable. I'm just comparing the Hyrule Castle barrier and the ones used to sideline Midna and Zelda.

Well since its me your convincing, stylisic choice? right...

It could have been said in two words though, "sorely mistaken", "wrong", theres no real argument there, evidence etc.

So the only relevent once is those that can sideline, which has no feats of strength.

Originally posted by Peach
BT, Scream, stop baiting each other. And don't even whine, BT, you do it just as much as he does.

Stay on topic and knock off the trolling and derailing.

I dont imply or call anyone dickheads though which is more than baiting imo but w/e...

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Geez Scream. Calm down bro. o.O

Has the fight with Team 1 been decided on yet?

I think Samus could escape TK with a good Space Jump if she needs to. I expect the Light Beam can harm him to some degree precisely because the Light Arrows can stun or harm him. The Light Beam has some feats of disintegration, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5AwbsRHSC0#t=40s
It'll one shot weaker enemies, but Ing take a few.

And yeah, I can see a similar interaction between the light beam and Ganon to how the light arrows work on him. He should be able to defend himself from them, but can probably be made vulnerable to harm by them, as well.

Also, how does Samus' suit interact with Electricity? I seem to remember those atom-looking-enemies-whose-names-I-forget in Metroid Prime making her visor static and the like. Would a lightning Bolt hinder her temporarily, you think?

Theres been no evidence to suggest Ganon was using TK on his castle at any point, certainly not to hold it up. Magic and the like is a better suggestion, not sure I have seen much TK from him, unless you were to use Zants Tk as a "gauge". That said, i dont think jumping does anything against TK unless her jump held more force in it than the TK user.

Freeze rays and light beams could probably finish Ganon off though, or melt him with the heat based weapons. Although this electricity weakness sounds new, thats not been mentioned yet.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Theres been no evidence to suggest Ganon was using TK on his castle at any point, certainly not to hold it up. Magic and the like is a better suggestion, not sure I have seen much TK from him, unless you were to use Zants Tk as a "gauge". That said, i dont think jumping does anything against TK unless her jump held more force in it than the TK user.

Freeze rays and light beams could probably finish Ganon off though, or melt him with the heat based weapons. Although this electricity weakness sounds new, thats not been mentioned yet.

Ganon used magic to levitate his castle, IE, he moved it without touching it, IE, funcrionally indistinguishable and TK is perfect shorthand, thankz 4 ur semantics.

Strange you'd claim they would be effective against Ganon when you can't seem to accept they'd be effective against Kain. See, where Kain's got no resistance to the plasma or ice beams, Ganon cannot be harmed by the fire or ice arrows which respectively freeze a volcano and end a really hax blizzard blizzard.

You can't have it both ways.

Oh, and there is no lightning weakness. It's the same as hitting Ganon with his own power's ever been, his own magic packs enough punch to stun him.

I'm gonna have to say that Samus > Ganondorf, if only she had the Master Arm Cannon.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ganon used magic to levitate his castle, IE, he moved it without touching it, IE, funcrionally indistinguishable and TK is perfect shorthand, thankz 4 ur semantics.

Strange you'd claim they would be effective against Ganon when you can't seem to accept they'd be effective against Kain. See, where Kain's got no resistance to the plasma or ice beams, Ganon cannot be harmed by the fire or ice arrows which respectively freeze a volcano and end a really hax blizzard blizzard.

You can't have it both ways.

Oh, and there is no lightning weakness. It's the same as hitting Ganon with his own power's ever been, his own magic packs enough punch to stun him.

Its quite important because your using quick manipulations of telekinetic force and comparing it to magic as if you can use the strength to lift castles interchangably with TK powers.

Ganons not Kain and I dont recall him ever canonically hit by those things, I assume your just using in-game health values or something.

You misunderstand, I was refering to your weakness of Samus to those electric things however using "Ganons own powers" is not founded here, its just lightning, possibly no more effective than regular kind that humans can survive but it seems Ganon or "demise" can take a nasty shock as well.

Its quite important because your using quick manipulations of telekinetic force and comparing it to magic as if you can use the strength to lift castles interchangably with TK powers.

Ganons not Kain and I dont recall him ever canonically hit by those things, I assume your just using in-game health values or something.

You misunderstand, I was refering to your weakness of Samus to those electric things

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'm not sure what you're arguing here. He moved the castle without touching it. He can move smaller things without touching them.

Health values nothing, they just cannot harm him at all.

This is possibly an inconsistency, to be honest. The Prime series was done by a different studio than has done the other games.

Do we actually see this? and I am argueing your using what was magic on the Castle that your claiming as TK, if its magic then it may have more to it than what your claiming and may not be used like TK.

Technically a health value, thats mostly what a boss character is in a gameplay standoff. Most bosses in games need special ways to defeat them so trying to use the fact not all weapons or abilities work is like trying to use a consistent gameplay mechanic.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well since its me your convincing, stylisic choice? right...

It's just that it doesn't make any sense as a crate. What's in it? Given the thickness of each side, we're looking at something that's still around 20 ish tons being used to hold an object significantly smaller than a human. There does not not appear to be any real way to open the thing, and again those walls weigh a few tons by themselves and you're expecting nails to hold it together easily? Really, the Zelda series has had puzzle blocks forever; this one is just metal.

It could have been said in two words though, "sorely mistaken", "wrong", theres no real argument there, evidence etc.

Then how about you prove your assertion than blowing up a castle uses no physical force? Or the assertion that magic produces no physical force? Instead of complaining about me saying that you're wrong, why don't you just prove yourself right? Otherwise we're going in circles.

So the only relevent once is those that can sideline, which has no feats of strength.

The ones used to sideline and the one Midna broke are the same type. We know it takes around castle busting force to break one, and not many people here can do that.

Freeze rays and light beams could probably finish Ganon off though, or melt him with the heat based weapons. Although this electricity weakness sounds new, thats not been mentioned yet.

Ok, this is just bugging me. Why are you saying that Ganondorf, the guy with known fire resistance, could be melted by heat based weapons while also saying that Kain, the guy with a known vulnerability to fire, could not? It doesn't make sense to me that in one thread you imply that the Plasma beam is incredibly powerful while in another you say it's no better than normal fire. Which is it?

Hm, here's where the argument of her propulsion v.s. the power of his TK comes in. The reason I felt his TK could counter her screw attack is simply that I just honestly feel like his TK pushes harder. She comes at him, he can shove her back, possibly hold her down or with her back to a wall (or barrier). Let's not forget he's supported his entire castle, as well as brought it down. Would she be strong enough to aim her arm-cannon at him despite his TK? Or is there an effect to space jump-ness that would let her get around the TK?

I don't know if Space Jump is strong enough to resist direct TK manipulation at that strength, but it could cancel a throw or something. If he's targeting her arm specifically, probably not, but if it's just a general hold I'd say she could still shoot him. That or go into Morph Ball and set off a few bombs or power bombs. What I'm really curious about, though, is the Gravity Suit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTl9zTAa0MM#t=12m47s

It's basically Freedom of Movement in suit form. She can't be slowed down by water, lava, gravity effects or, according to the above video, air pressure and vacuum effects. Whether that extends to psychic effects or has yet to be seen. (I doubt it.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O665SBoJOto#t=5m17s

Also, the Morph Ball has anti-tentacle properties which make it difficult to grab.

Also, how does Samus' suit interact with Electricity? I seem to remember those atom-looking-enemies-whose-names-I-forget in Metroid Prime making her visor static and the like. Would a lightning Bolt hinder her temporarily, you think?

Bombu, and all they really do is the visor static for a split second. Samus doesn't have any weakness to electricity damage wise, and even an EMP can only mess up the visor for a moment. Best case for Ganon would be some damage and Samus losing her auto-target.

Originally posted by The Scenario
It's just that it doesn't make any sense as a crate. What's in it? Given the thickness of each side, we're looking at something that's still around 20 ish tons being used to hold an object significantly smaller than a human. There does not not appear to be any real way to open the thing, and again those walls weigh a few tons by themselves and you're expecting nails to hold it together easily? Really, the Zelda series has had puzzle blocks forever; this one is just metal.

Then how about you prove your assertion than blowing up a castle uses no physical force? Or the assertion that magic produces no physical force? Instead of complaining about me saying that you're wrong, why don't you just prove yourself right? Otherwise we're going in circles.

The ones used to sideline and the one Midna broke are the same type. We know it takes around castle busting force to break one, and not many people here can do that.

Ok, this is just bugging me. Why are you saying that Ganondorf, the guy with known fire resistance, could be melted by heat based weapons while also saying that Kain, the guy with a known vulnerability to fire, could not? It doesn't make sense to me that in one thread you imply that the Plasma beam is incredibly powerful while in another you say it's no better than normal fire. Which is it?

I don't know if Space Jump is strong enough to resist direct TK manipulation at that strength, but it could cancel a throw or something. If he's targeting her arm specifically, probably not, but if it's just a general hold I'd say she could still shoot him. That or go into Morph Ball and set off a few bombs or power bombs. What I'm really curious about, though, is the Gravity Suit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTl9zTAa0MM#t=12m47s

It's basically Freedom of Movement in suit form. She can't be slowed down by water, lava, gravity effects or, according to the above video, air pressure and vacuum effects. Whether that extends to psychic effects or has yet to be seen. (I doubt it.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O665SBoJOto#t=5m17s

Also, the Morph Ball has anti-tentacle properties which make it difficult to grab.

Bombu, and all they really do is the visor static for a split second. Samus doesn't have any weakness to electricity damage wise, and even an EMP can only mess up the visor for a moment. Best case for Ganon would be some damage and Samus losing her auto-target.

Well thats what it is, and who cares whats in it? Kain moves crates in Blood omen 2 as well, I never claimed they were solid, a metal crate is hardly a ton, I think your guestimates are getting a bit ahead of you.

Its your claim and argument hinged on what you belive Midna did, I dont care what did it, but you cant prove what did which is important for you. Although I think I have shown tne lightning bolt in the top of the castle before it explodes before.

No their not, their a simliar colour I give you, maybe the same energy but thats like saying a piece of steel as long as its steel is exactly the same no matter what its used in. Theres size and thickness to consider for one, nor do you know how much power is put into one when their ambigious like this, you dont have much to go on.

Because I still belive Raziels friction on his claws is more than enough, and Kains general resistance to things that require breaking of his body is beyond the plasma beams, your breaking apart particles either way. Tbh, I am simply pointing out that regardless of my stance on kain, your stance is completly different here just because he had one dragon breathe fire on him.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well thats what it is, and who cares whats in it? Kain moves crates in Blood omen 2 as well, I never claimed they were solid, a metal crate is hardly a ton, I think your guestimates are getting a bit ahead of you.

Not really a guesstimate given the calc for its solid weight. Point being it isn't a crate so I don't see any reason to math it as one.

Its your claim and argument hinged on what you belive Midna did, I dont care what did it, but you cant prove what did which is important for you. Although I think I have shown tne lightning bolt in the top of the castle before it explodes before.

It's supported by the evidence, though. Midna was using a weapon and was seen to attack, and the castle exploded immediately afterward. Ganon isn't shown to attack at all, ruling him out as a culprit. It had to be Midna by the way the scene played out, you can't just suggest an alternate scenario and demand I prove it's impossible.

No their not, their a simliar colour I give you, maybe the same energy but thats like saying a piece of steel as long as its steel is exactly the same no matter what its used in. Theres size and thickness to consider for one, nor do you know how much power is put into one when their ambigious like this, you dont have much to go on.

Like how you just assume anything stone is made of granite for all calcs and it's all exactly the same? We're talking about magical barriers made by the same guy here, and there's nothing preventing him from just putting up another castle sized one or one similar to it. We know Ganondorf can do both, why does this matter?

Because I still belive Raziels friction on his claws is more than enough, and Kains general resistance to things that require breaking of his body is beyond the plasma beams, your breaking apart particles either way. Tbh, I am simply pointing out that regardless of my stance on kain, your stance is completly different here just because he had one dragon breathe fire on him.

You haven't proven that Raziel's claws produced any heat whatsoever or given anything to suggest that friction would produce that much heat. Further, you're equating claw resistance to heat resistance based on nothing, and again haven't given any reason to believe it's superior to the plasma beam. All you're doing is making claims without backing them up and saying that's enough. Unlike Kain, Ganondorf has actual fire resistance in addition to castle level durability. If the Plasma beam can hurt him, it would destroy Kain.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Not really a guesstimate given the calc for its solid weight. Point being it isn't a crate so I don't see any reason to math it as one.

It's supported by the evidence, though. Midna was using a weapon and was seen to attack, and the castle exploded immediately afterward. Ganon isn't shown to attack at all, ruling him out as a culprit. It had to be Midna by the way the scene played out, you can't just suggest an alternate scenario and demand I prove it's impossible.

Like how you just assume anything stone is made of granite for all calcs and it's all exactly the same? We're talking about magical barriers made by the same guy here, and there's nothing preventing him from just putting up another castle sized one or one similar to it. We know Ganondorf can do both, why does this matter?

You haven't proven that Raziel's claws produced any heat whatsoever or given anything to suggest that friction would produce that much heat. Further, you're equating claw resistance to heat resistance based on nothing, and again haven't given any reason to believe it's superior to the plasma beam. All you're doing is making claims without backing them up and saying that's enough. Unlike Kain, Ganondorf has actual fire resistance in addition to castle level durability. If the Plasma beam can hurt him, it would destroy Kain.

Theres no immediatly shown, the only immediate thing is a low growl, no sound concerning an exploding castle unless Ganons growl drowned it out. On the contary, a blast of yellow energy, remincient of what Ganon often uses, as well as iirc a lightning bolt (also known from Ganon). I like how you dont like my claim here yet apprently you can make up doubts from nothing, not even have a counter argument liek I do and yet I have to apprently prove something against your alternate scenario.

Its not just me who does that, its everyone because we know granite is an average building material, its better than mathing it as the lightest stone nobody would use for contruction or a heavy metal. It matters because we dont know if he can just "do it" just as easily. We dont see him do anything other than the small barriers, and even the "castle sized" one has no feats, only the fact it was destroyed.

Again, I dont have to prove a scientific process exists, I think science did that for me already, and although its true I need to find a specific calculation, I am fairly cetrtain its above the melting point of skin itself and ive yet to see you prove your claims. Fire reisstance is irrelevent, fire burns nowhere near as hot as energy that can melt tin and Ganon does not have caslte resistance, wut? if your claiming Ganons going to be in his disembodied growling head form for the most of this fight then the beam will likely just go through it harmlessly anyway although I was of the opinion Ganon would choose his more consistent and more powerful forms.

Seriously Scream, spite thread? Anyone who's bothered to read the OP knows that the orchestra wins no matter what 😐

KAY! Dunno who Kharne, an Farseer or that avatar is yet... so sod 'em for now. Pretty much only gonna argue if for Sora and Dante later on.

War's gone... the guys not even as strong as he appears. Even Mercer and Sonic are stronger than him. Akuma with his massive strength has a good chance of getting critical hits on Demise, though I can see him getting struck down with Demmy's blade or magic. Was said in this thread what magiks he's use but its 6 pages long so.. meh.
On the other hand Kharne is from the WH40k verse so he could be anything from building to planet buster for all I know.

Akuma and maybe Khane can figure out a way to break him down and best his powers. /shrugs

Vecna doesn't exist and Farseer's from the WH40K verse too, so... moving on to Kain. Having GG strength means he comes out on top by a fair amount, so Kain wont want to get into physical conflict. The only powers I recall from Kain that'd be helpful are Blood Slurp and Charm. Charms limits would be its downfall here and Im not really sure how his Blood power will be.

As the other two dont exist it all rests on whether Kain's special powers and avoiding techniques.

Samus has been nicely covered as having a good shot at damaging him.
With Sora's strength and speed he can best Demise in combat, plus he strikes with powerful light magic (Blade charge). He /is/ more a lightning bruiser as his durability isnt as amazing iirc, though his spells do aid on that. Namely Reflect and, going FF style here, Cure which can be used to heal his allies <- Great resource. Drive form Sora >
More so than Sora, Dante too can best Demise in combat with his superior speed and strength. If necessary his DT armour should cover him from Dem's physical blows with his regen healing him from anything that land. Two things to note for things Ive seen here; He /can/ teleport with his Air Trick and has lightning attacks/infused weapons.

All three [Samus?] have ways of beating Demise.

Urg, forgetting tons of what Ganon can do so counter posts will be great. And note, as of now I got no ****ing clue how much stronger he'd be due to fighting Hylia or how that could used here.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Theres no immediatly shown, the only immediate thing is a low growl, no sound concerning an exploding castle unless Ganons growl drowned it out. On the contary, a blast of yellow energy, remincient of what Ganon often uses, as well as iirc a lightning bolt (also known from Ganon). I like how you dont like my claim here yet apprently you can make up doubts from nothing, not even have a counter argument liek I do and yet I have to apprently prove something against your alternate scenario.

Ganon was shown before the attack doing nothing, and the screen faded out there. The growl does not indicate much, and would more likely mean he wasn't doing anything. It seems to be in pain from Midna's attack, even. The Fused Shadows also use yellow energy, so no indication there, same with the light as both have been before when Midna destroyed the barrier. So really, all the evidence still points to Midna's spear destroying the castle.

Its not just me who does that, its everyone because we know granite is an average building material, its better than mathing it as the lightest stone nobody would use for contruction or a heavy metal. It matters because we dont know if he can just "do it" just as easily. We dont see him do anything other than the small barriers, and even the "castle sized" one has no feats, only the fact it was destroyed.

We have seen Ganon raise both in the same time frame with the same ease, and they even look the same. The castle one took a known castle buster to break, and even that took some time. It's a good feat for both.

Again, I dont have to prove a scientific process exists, I think science did that for me already, and although its true I need to find a specific calculation, I am fairly cetrtain its above the melting point of skin itself and ive yet to see you prove your claims. Fire reisstance is irrelevent, fire burns nowhere near as hot as energy that can melt tin and Ganon does not have caslte resistance, wut? if your claiming Ganons going to be in his disembodied growling head form for the most of this fight then the beam will likely just go through it harmlessly anyway although I was of the opinion Ganon would choose his more consistent and more powerful forms.

I'm not asking you prove a scientific process, where did you even get the idea that I was? I just want you to prove that Raziel produces heat with his claws, and then to prove it's enough heat for fire resistance. Otherwise you're just endlessly repeating an unsupported claim. I know what friction is, obviously, you just have no evidence to support you here.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Ganon was shown before the attack doing nothing, and the screen faded out there. The growl does not indicate much, and would more likely mean he wasn't doing anything. It seems to be in pain from Midna's attack, even. The Fused Shadows also use yellow energy, so no indication there, same with the light as both have been before when Midna destroyed the barrier. So really, all the evidence still points to Midna's spear destroying the castle.

We have seen Ganon raise both in the same time frame with the same ease, and they even look the same. The castle one took a known castle buster to break, and even that took some time. It's a good feat for both.

I'm not asking you prove a scientific process, where did you even get the idea that I was? I just want you to prove that Raziel produces heat with his claws, and then to prove it's enough heat for fire resistance. Otherwise you're just endlessly repeating an unsupported claim. I know what friction is, obviously, you just have no evidence to support you here.

The growl however is the only immediate thing after the thrust, if anything I would say it means the thrust did little to nothing, if it had busted the castle the explosion would drown out a low growl. Not in this instance though, lightning similiar to Ganons is evident, your now making up assumptions on how the energy filled the castle.

No we have not, we have seen one raise quickly with Ganon on screen, so we know he did it easily but the other? not so much. The castle one proved that Midna was enough, not that any less would not be sufficient, thats a feat for one of the shields.

If you know what friction is then you know Raziel slashing across a surface is going to produce some.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The growl however is the only immediate thing after the thrust, if anything I would say it means the thrust did little to nothing, if it had busted the castle the explosion would drown out a low growl. Not in this instance though, lightning similiar to Ganons is evident, your now making up assumptions on how the energy filled the castle.

The scene change is the only immediate thing after the thrust, but then the castle exploded so it doesn't matter. In this instance, we know for a fact that both Midna and Ganon have used yellow lightning, that does not indicate it was only Ganon, especially given Midna being the only one shown to attack. You're just nitpicking; it changes nothing.

No we have not, we have seen one raise quickly with Ganon on screen, so we know he did it easily but the other? not so much. The castle one proved that Midna was enough, not that any less would not be sufficient, thats a feat for one of the shields.

That's just nickpicking again. We know Ganon raised all three, and it took the same amount of time for each. It proves castle busting force was needed to take the shield, and Midna was exhausted by the effort.

If you know what friction is then you know Raziel slashing across a surface is going to produce some.

Not enough to even consider it being hot enough to start fires. Again, there isn't even any heat shown, it looks like the developers weren't thinking about the physics. If you want to keep this point you should probably consider not being so hypocritical towards Dante. And even if you did, it's still not enough to prevent Kain from being torched, or even to top Ganondorf's legitimate fire resistance.

seriously guys, Ganon has no feats for his speed nor his reaction time Hell, i don't even think he's a bullet timer meaning he gets speed blitz. None of his powers would even matter if he isn't fast enough to react to his opponents(especially Dante)

I agree with above. Ganon doesnt have many feats tbh for physical power, only assumptions from various clashes with link, that are then automatically assumed for all forms of Ganon, there are many forms with different powers. I am sure if I knew the games timeline i could probably argue some ganons may have gained, learned or knew of powers they would not in other timelines.

Also Scenario I am not interested in who broke the castle, weve had the discussion and it goes nowhere so I think youll agree, this would be a waste of time.

Alright, might as well reply to my own thread.

Seriously Scream, spite thread? Anyone who's bothered to read the OP knows that the orchestra wins no matter what

Originally posted by Burning thought
I agree with above. Ganon doesnt have many feats tbh for physical power, only assumptions from various clashes with link, that are then automatically assumed for all forms of Ganon, there are many forms with different powers. I am sure if I knew the games timeline i could probably argue some ganons may have gained, learned or knew of powers they would not in other timelines.

Also Scenario I am not interested in who broke the castle, weve had the discussion and it goes nowhere so I think youll agree, this would be a waste of time.

Originally posted by chuck inglish
seriously guys, Ganon has no feats for his speed nor his reaction time Hell, i don't even think he's a bullet timer meaning he gets speed blitz. None of his powers would even matter if he isn't fast enough to react to his opponents(especially Dante)

Samus has been nicely covered as having a good shot at damaging him.
With Sora's strength and speed he can best Demise in combat, plus he strikes with powerful light magic (Blade charge). He /is/ more a lightning bruiser as his durability isnt as amazing iirc, though his spells do aid on that. Namely Reflect and, going FF style here, Cure which can be used to heal his allies <- Great resource. Drive form Sora >

Well, Sora is fast, but how fast exactly? I don't think he's outside Ganon's reaction time, and with Sora's lower durability it's entirely possible for a one shot to take place. Can Sora avoid a lightning bolt?

More so than Sora, Dante too can best Demise in combat with his superior speed and strength.

This happens before he even gains the ToP in OoT. Hm. While weakened from even his original form.

nvZ1ihtpdwc#t=9m13s
9:13

Note that at 10:00 it gets very violent, and shortly after Groose shits his pants.

"W-What's with all the shaking!?" *frightened sounds*

"The entire ground is heaving! I thought it was supposed to be solid down here!"

Couple his infamous lightning time reactions, and Dante on his own is sure to be bested. 😛 Luckily, Dante has friends.

If Dante can teleport, and you're certain Air Trick is a teleport, that means Samus is the only one who can be reliably sidelined. But she can act as a target marker should Ganondorf use invisibility/intangibility or his Darkness technique. Wave beam. D=< This at least keeps her light beam from being a problem.
(I've not seen it, so hey, figured I'd ask, is relevant. Air Trick = teleport?)

If necessary his DT armour should cover him from Dem's physical blows with his regen healing him from anything that land.

So, uh, I'm using a little powerscaling. >_> Basically, Ganon > Demise. And Demise can physically shake regions while weakened. 😛

So to answer this:

Urg, forgetting tons of what Ganon can do so counter posts will be great. And note, as of now I got no ****ing clue how much stronger he'd be due to fighting Hylia or how that could used here.

The reason I'm so comfortable pitting him against three powerful characters is that he has a lot of powers, and a lot of power behind them. Lightning bolts are always nice, barriers are useful, teleportation's great, TK is awesome, intangibility and invisibility tend to give enemies bad days. A lot of this helps him control the fight, keeping Samus locked in while fighting Dante and Sora, and abusing some of the broken abilities he's been given over the years in the process.

So, this thread should be fun.

Please explain why that large dark entity creating tremurs is a better strength feat than anything previously or outstrips Dante?

And ganons played tennsis with ball lightning that goes about 2 meters a second at best, if that....

Anyone in this thread can probably destroy him before he can react assuming he doesnt avoid those that can only attack from the ground by flying.