Also, can we please just agree to disagree? No one is convincing anyone else here, and I don't want a flame war started on the Superman message board. I know that you wouldn't start it Carver, and I know that no one who has posted so far would either. I do know that other people who may come in certainly would. Nothing seems to incite flame wars across the internet like a Superman vs Goku thread.
Originally posted by emporerpants
When has Goku lifted trillions of tons? I'd love to see that panel. When has a DBZ character ever rammed a moon and exploded it with sheer physical force? I'd like to see a panel with some similar. Too bad it doesn't exist. What about Goku jumping out of the lava pit yelling about how his ass was on fire? Clearly hot temps can hurt him.You know as well as I do the exploding gas station was early in Superman's career and he has gotten stronger, just like I know that Goku has gotten stronger. But even at the end of DBZ we see the characters flying forever to get anywhere and normal people being able to see them. This is the norm, not the exception. Supes being hurt by the nuke blast is the exception, not the norm as we have many other examples of him not being affected. Supes being hurt Brainiacs ship is the exception, not the norm. See the difference? Probably not, but I'll keep going. DBZ characters being seen while fighting by normal people, taking forever to fly anywhere, NOT destroying the planet with big attacks, etc. is the NORM not the exception. Everyone was super impressed when Gotenks flew around the world at a speed that is much slower than Superman.
Whether done for comedic reasons or not, the rock thing is just stupid. It doesn't change the fact that it happened in cannon. Again, that is an example of DBZ being inconsistent, comedy or not. I know as well as you do that it is silly and shouldn't really count against Goku. I thought it was fairly obvious I was using it as an example of how stupidly inconsistent DBZ can be. You don't see hulk all of a sudden unable to lift a car for the lulz do you? Because that would be stupidly inconsistent instead of funny. The point is, you can't rightly claim that Supes's high level feats are discounted because of his low ones while still using Goku's absolute best without taking into account his low ones. You can't have it both ways.
I'm not using Supermans low end showing...I'm talking about both of them at their average. Both of them at their "average" portrayal, Superman wouldn't even see Goku let alone hit him. It's consistent for Goku to fight at time stopping speeds. It's consistent for Goku to use powerful blast...etc, etc... What I mean by trillions of tons of force is Goku kicking Frieza so hard that the entire planet Namek shook. That's high end strength...no way of dodging that. I'm trying to get the scan for you or at least the anime version...something because my scanner isn't working.
Akira answered this question the best way he could. Someone asked him why Goku never flew at light speed. They asked him that if the Z fighters combat speed at light, why not have them make it to their destination at light. Akira stated that would cause more harm than anything. He said that...what's the point of Goku saving the planet if he is actually aiding the Villians in destroying it if he is causing planetary destruction by flying at such speeds. Makes sense to me.
Anime are filled with comedy relief. Cell, Frieza , Buu, Vegeta, etc,etc punch harder than any rock. It was a comedy scene that I along with others laughed at.
A super Saiyan isn't even needed here. As stated before, Goku has the strength to rock Superman and Goku COMBAT SPEED is next to none. Goku have light speed showings "as a child"... Superman will NOT lay a glove on him unless Goku fights out of character and even then, Superman isn't dropping him.
Originally posted by emporerpants
Also, can we please just agree to disagree? No one is convincing anyone else here, and I don't want a flame war started on the Superman message board. I know that you wouldn't start it Carver, and I know that no one who has posted so far would either. I do know that other people who may come in certainly would. Nothing seems to incite flame wars across the internet like a Superman vs Goku thread.
oh my god please don't start insulting each other, mommy and daddy don't fight.
cry
Originally posted by Spire
Funny(stupid) thread.Superman smothers Goku with his cape and stuffs him in a drawer in the Fortress of Solitude where he remains forever and ever. And Superman never says a word.
But Batman knows...yes The Batman knows.
laughing thumbup
Also Sephiroth would win this fight.
Originally posted by emporerpants
Also, can we please just agree to disagree? No one is convincing anyone else here, and I don't want a flame war started on the Superman message board. I know that you wouldn't start it Carver, and I know that no one who has posted so far would either. I do know that other people who may come in certainly would. Nothing seems to incite flame wars across the internet like a Superman vs Goku thread.
I agree with this and this is nothing but fun and games to me...would never take this serious. My point of my post wasn't to flame anyone but to show you...two can play that game.
By the way...Vegeta at his weakest trained in 450 Times Earth gravity. Ten tons is thrown out of the window. Goku as a teen tossed an enlarged Picollo with ease.
http://manga.animea.net/dragon-ball-chapter-187-page-5.html
Ten tons thrown out of the window.
I know it is fun and games to you Carver. It is just that some people will come in here and it won't be anymore. This board doesn't see a lot of activity, and while having a big discussion like this is good for it, it won't be if a flame war starts.
Also, zoom said Superman's speed rivals his own and Supes has lifted half of infinity when he was supporting half the weight of a book with infinite pages 😉 Anyway, I agree to disagree with you Carver. 🙂 You're a good guy.
Originally posted by carver9
The attack is called "light speed fury attack"...its in the scan that I presented. Tien arms turn into beams of light when he is punching Goku. Why name an attack light speed when its "not" light speed?What was your last question because it might didnt make sense since you believe Goku can only shoot nuclear explosions when we have weaker beings than him destroying planetary objects.
My last question was:
"Hah not once did I say that Piccolo at 350> Goku.
Power Level or Battle Power doesn't always have to do with Destructive capacity.
Piccolo destroyed the moon with a seemingly casual Ki Blast.
Note I said SEEMingly since Piccolo blew it up out of desparation it also looked like a Ki Wave rather than a blast.
I'm still waiting for the scan on Goku touching the flames of the Sun.
But then again that's very inconsistant since a Full Powered Super Saiyan Goku got killed by Semi Perfect Cell's self destruction which was only meant to blow up Earth.
You haven't got anyone, if you think Pokemon are FTL just because of Solar Beam(which is actually one of the slowest moves in Pokemon) you and your logic is dense."
I don't remember you posting a scan of Tien's "lightspeed fury attack".
You also ignored my other post when I stated that SSJ3 Goku is Multi Planet level like Kid Buu. I didn't exactly say Multi Planet but I said he'd be able to completely vaporise planets like Kid Buu which is Multi Planet in my opinion.
"What was your last question because it might didnt make sense..."
Also I'd say your grammar doesn't make sense 🙂.
Originally posted by carver9
I'll show you the scans. Lol...I have no reason to lie to you.As for speed. Please look at this site. Scroll all the way down to the bottom until you get to a guy by the name of hitsusatsu11...GREAT DEBATOR...very knowledged on the characters. Please ignore the first guy because he doesnt know what he is talking about.
http://www.animevice.com/forums/dragon-ball/72/how-fast-are-dbz-characters/314493/?
He pretty much sums it up on how fast DBZ characters are and he provide scan for each showing that he mentions. He even provides showings of them punching at light speed during the time they were kids.
Pr...I know of Superman fts and know everything there is to know of the character. Don't know why you would say anything different.
Here is my post about dbz speed. The rest of your post...don't need to respond to it.
Originally posted by carver9
By the way...Vegeta at his weakest trained in 450 Times Earth gravity. Ten tons is thrown out of the window. Goku as a teen tossed an enlarged Picollo with ease.http://manga.animea.net/dragon-ball-chapter-187-page-5.html
Ten tons thrown out of the window.
Aquaman is comfortable in 1,000 times the pressure of Earth's atmosphere, and he's not nearly as durable as Superman.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Aquaman is comfortable in 1,000 times the pressure of Earth's atmosphere, and he's not nearly as durable as Superman.
I'm not using that type of training as a dispute against Supermans strength (even though your instance is different than what I mentioned)...I'm using that against something that was said about Goku. Another things...comics look at gravity kind of different than we do. Starman increased the teahouse around KC Superman a hundred folds and it dropped him. He ended up over powering it given time but it dropped him and slowed him down in the beginning.
In regards to Aquaman, I don't think the writer think about the pressure in the sea while writing an Aquaman book.
Originally posted by carver9
I'm not using that type of training as a dispute against Supermans strength (even though your instance is different than what I mentioned)...I'm using that against something that was said about Goku. Another things...comics look at gravity kind of different than we do. Starman increased the teahouse around KC Superman a hundred folds and it dropped him. He ended up over powering it given time but it dropped him and slowed him down in the beginning.In regards to Aquaman, I don't think the writer think about the pressure in the sea while writing an Aquaman book.
That's more a matter of consistency than anything else.
Actually they did; several writers have flat out mentioned that he can survive pressures that would crush both people and submersible craft. It's commonly mentioned that he can; it's like his "best at what I do" shtick.
And speaking of gravity, there are, you know, black holes.
Originally posted by -Pr-
That's more a matter of consistency than anything else.Actually they did; several writers have flat out mentioned that he can survive pressures that would crush both people and submersible craft. It's commonly mentioned that he can; it's like his "best at what I do" shtick.
I think that has more to do with his physique than his durability. Being in a room with intense gravity, especially 450 Times Earth gravity not only take its toll on your durability, it also messes with the bodily fluids.
Both are different.
Also, why did All Star Superman build a divide to aid him in walking in 10 Times Earth gravity. Then we have Superman (even though his powers were slowly draining) straining to stay functional in 100 Times earthen gravity when he was on that alien planet. Writers view gravity kind of different than we do.
Originally posted by carver9
I think that has more to do with his physique than his durability. Being in a room with intense gravity, especially 450 Times Earth gravity not only take its toll on your durability, it also messes with the bodily fluids.Both are different.
Also, why did All Star Superman build a divide to aid him in walking in 10 Times Earth gravity. Then we have Superman (even though his powers were slowly draining) straining to stay functional in 100 Times earthen gravity when he was on that alien planet. Writers view gravity kind of different than we do.
Superman can survive in space; his bodily fluids will be just fine.
You're talking about inconsistency; not some definitive once off.
Originally posted by carver9
Why doesn't Goku have the durability to withstand attacks from Superman when he has withstood so much more in a single battle that what Superman can dish out? You're not making sense. What Goku endured in his single fight against Frieza is enough proof for me.Speed...it isn't needed but Goku is faster than Supes.
Travel speed...I agree, Superman has Goku beat here.
Goku doesn't need to go Super Saiyan to win this.
Lol...Doomsday Rex is slow compared to Goku and going intangible, Goku has done that as well. Superman would have to fight at his absolute best to stay in the game against Goku.
What did Frieza do to Goku that Superman can't dish out? He's survived an exploding suneater twice. The second time while weakened. What has Frieza done to Goku that Superman wouldn't survive or brush off? I think that you're the one that isn't making sense. Again. What has Frieza dished out on Goku that Superman wouldn't or hasn't tanked? Certainly not a planet-buster, because he aimed that at planet Namek, and even that took five minutes and still almost killed Goku.
Prove that Goku can move at lightspeed. I can post my response to the private message that you sent me if you'd like?
Combat speed, superman shits on Goku there too. As well as most other characters. See private message.
Prove that any version of Goku is even approaching Superman or any version of Doomsday's speed and you might not sound like a dbz-crazed fanatic. Maybe.
Seriously, prove what you say and people might take you seriously when your favorite characters are concerned.
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...you post a scan of Goku on a training ground training on a planet with intense gravity. How about posting the scan of kid Goku pushing a boulder the size of Master Roshi house. How about you post the scan of Goku kicking Frieza so hard it shook planet Namek and destroyed an entire Island and two nearby mountains or him picking up a 100 ft tall Picollo tossing him across the ring. Or Goku as a child grabbing a guy that was stated as weight over a ton and tossing him out of the city. Goku as a child was a high class 100 being...you trying to discredit this isn't helping you at all.
Or why don't we post some scans of Superman pushing, splitting, busting and "shaking the solar system with his blows" (supes vs darkseid)? Every feat that Goku has physically, Superman has ten to dwarf it.
If Superman doesn't feel like screwing with it, he can literally fly him out beyond the galaxy and smack him around until he passes out. Because saiyans can't breath in space.... or dish out kryptonian level punches. Double kill.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Not really an anime person, unless it's something like Miyazaki.Carver. Come on. You've made it more than obvious you have at best a passing knowledge of Superman.
So, before I reply (even though I really don't see how that puts him above Superman), to anyone else: Is that all true?
No one in dbz has ever been hit with a blast with the power to destroy a solar system. Only a blast made from small portions of energy from living, willing participants across the galaxy at strongest (dragonball gt). None of the attacks from the frieza saga directed at one individual destroyed a continent either. Only small islands. Also, whenever a planet is destroyed in the series, there are never any survivors that simply tank it.
Buu had to reform from being blown apart by his own planet-buster every time.
Frieza did it from a distance, because he, cell, and buu were the only characters in the series iirc that could survive in space unaided.
When Frieze destroyed Namek, a combo of Goku's final attack and the exploding planet damaged him further to the extent that he would have died in space if not for his father finding him floating there dying.
Goku had to use a ship to escape Namek at the last minute iirc.
I'm not saying that they're weak, but I've read the manga and watched the series since I was like 6, and I can't remember an instance of anyone remaining whole after a planet buster under their own power.