Originally posted by BlackZero30x
ok sooo I started reading this at 0 and I wasn't able to pick up the rest yet....sooo whats up with this? Or more clearly who has won the fights?
Scroll up a few posts
Originally posted by Deadline
Hahaha Rogue fought Falcon?? How did he do?
Not very well, she also absorbed his powers (to talk to birds) and used it on the Iron Man droid
Originally posted by Bentley
Fanboy 😛
I did the same for Colossanut so hush! 😎
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=12549
^ preview for #5.
Originally posted by peejayd
* this is actually a defense on why Cyclops has this drive on Hope and the Phoenix will bring positive effects on mutant population... my rant was not stupid, and it's logical actually... by trying to refute it, you're actually being one-sided... tell me, srank, are you talking about the Phoenix or the DARK Phoenix? you seemed confused... the Phoenix actually HELPED Jean from solar radiation storm? and i quote (Marvel Wiki) --- Phoenix Force responded to Jean's anguish and telepathic calls for help, as she was dying aboard the space shuttle. It appeared before her, shaping its form and consciousness after Jean's own. The Phoenix Force told her that she was dying, but that by taking the Phoenix Force's hand, Jean would gain her "heart's desire". What Jean most wanted was to save the lives of the X-Men and herself. Jean held onto the Phoenix Force's arm and fell into a coma-like state and simultaneously, the Phoenix Force fully took on the form, memories, and personality of Jean Grey, by absorbing a portion of her consciousness. The Phoenix Force used its powers to ensure the survival of the X-Men in their return to Earth and crash landing in Jamaica Bay, off New York City. It was also responsible for casting Jean into a coma-like state and placing her within a cocoon-like construction, which rested for years at the bottom of Jamaica Bay, while her injuries healed completely. Thus, the Phoenix Force fulfilled its pledge to Jean...* in Zero Tolerance, While training, Jean began wearing a costume similar to the one the Phoenix Force incarnation of her wore and seemed to be manifesting the fire bird effect with her telekinesis. While this worried Scott, Jean reassured him that she was well and simply training herself...
* the Phoenix Force also helped Rachel in her journey from a certain timeline, where PF revealed itself to be Kate Pryde... if you're not stubborn, you'll "see" the PF not as a destruction ONLY... it can help and be beneficial...
* are you a Wolverine-fanboy now? i don't remember you as one before... you're being unreasonable... in character, any character would also do it if it needs to be done... that's part of being a superhero, tough decisions, to kill a threat that will save the lives of the many...
* and me asking, "why does it always have to be freakin' Wolverine?" is actually a rhetorical question... but if you want to answer it, you're dumb... it's a sarcastic way of saying, "it's Wolverine again because he's so d@mn overrated"... read between the lines, srank... you used to post intelligent comments before... 😉
What are you talking about? No one ever said the Phoenix Force was merely a force of destruction, it's well documented that it is a force of destruction and rebirth. But the fact is virtually every single time the Phoenix has shown up, the host has gone insane and tried to destroy the Universe at least once. Dark Phoenix and Phoenix aren't two separate entities... why would anyone in their right mind gamble that a 14 year old girl would be able to control a primordial cosmic force that has destroyed countless civilizations? Even Jean couldn't do it, and Jean and the Phoenix were one singular entity, she wasn't just a host of the force, according to Death, Jean wasn't an avatar of the Phoenix, she was the Phoenix.
Rachel only controlled a portion of the Phoenix Force. The one time Beyonder gave her access to the whole thing, she lost her mind and tried to destroy the Universe...
"In character" almost no character would kill Hope, even Wolverine admitted to himself he was kidding himself to think he could do it. Captain America would never kill Hope no matter what the cost. She is a fourteen year old girl! Situations like this are the reason Wolverine was brought onto the Avengers to begin with, literally because none of them are prepared to take a life when it is necessarily. That's not fanboyism, that is the documented documented character traits established over decades of comic history. Even X-Force, a team of experienced killers, found themselves unable to kill a child Apocalypse in order to safe the world from a potential judgement day scenario. There are maybe five characters in this event that would have the balls to put Hope away... and all of them would wait for her to go Dark Phoenix before they made that attempt... and by then it would be too late.
It was a stupid rhetorical question. It "has to be Wolverine" because he is the only one it's in character for, and - again - it's literally the reason Stark gave him an Avengers invite (and the reason Cap opposed it). Wolverine is willing to take a life when most other heroes won't... that's his role... and even he can't pull the trigger here... and you really believe that "any" character would put Hope down? Get real.
Originally posted by Damborgson
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=12549^ preview for #5.
Namor vs. Thing AGAIN?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What are you talking about? No one ever said the Phoenix Force was merely a force of destruction, it's well documented that it is a force of destruction [b]and rebirth. But the fact is virtually every single time the Phoenix has shown up, the host has gone insane and tried to destroy the Universe at least once. Dark Phoenix and Phoenix aren't two separate entities... why would anyone in their right mind gamble that a 14 year old girl would be able to control a primordial cosmic force that has destroyed countless civilizations? Even Jean couldn't do it, and Jean and the Phoenix were one singular entity, she wasn't just a host of the force, according to Death, Jean wasn't an avatar of the Phoenix, she was the Phoenix.Rachel only controlled a portion of the Phoenix Force. The one time Beyonder gave her access to the whole thing, she lost her mind and tried to destroy the Universe...
"In character" almost no character would kill Hope, even Wolverine admitted to himself he was kidding himself to think he could do it. Captain America would never kill Hope no matter what the cost. She is a fourteen year old girl! Situations like this are the reason Wolverine was brought onto the Avengers to begin with, literally because none of them are prepared to take a life when it is necessarily. That's not fanboyism, that is the documented documented character traits established over decades of comic history. Even X-Force, a team of experienced killers, found themselves unable to kill a child Apocalypse in order to safe the world from a potential judgement day scenario. There are maybe five characters in this event that would have the balls to put Hope away... and all of them would wait for her to go Dark Phoenix before they made that attempt... and by then it would be too late.
It was a stupid rhetorical question. It "has to be Wolverine" because he is the only one it's in character for, and - again - it's literally the reason Stark gave him an Avengers invite (and the reason Cap opposed it). Wolverine is willing to take a life when most other heroes won't... that's his role... and even he can't pull the trigger here... and you really believe that "any" character would put Hope down? Get real. [/B]
* you're clearly missing it, srank... the fact is, you cannot nullify the positive by creating a negative... and given the facts of how the history of the Phoenix was written, you cannot deny that the host can control the PF... okay, the host went insane, well have you considered what went wrong? what triggered the insanity? the PF and the host cannot go insane on their own... you know the Dark Phoenix saga, right? did the PF went insane out of nowhere? or did something triggered for its insanity? do the math...
* well, for starters, Hope is also not an avatar of the Phoenix... Cable stated that Hope is the Phoenix... just like Jean Grey... and if Hope wasn't such a brat, Rachel and even Emma could've molded her to be a good psychic (or host for the PF) in no time...
* get real? i was actually ranting a defense on what Cyclops' drive is... on why he's uber-confident about the PF's positive effects on mutant population... on why he's uber-confident that this time around, they'll "write a happy ending"... getting real is like you're actually getting out of the comics' universe... there's practically nothing real in comics... so a 14-year-old (or 16) controlling the PF is not unreal, srank... get back in the comic universe... oh, Hope's not just the Phoenix, she's also the Mutant Messiah... and if the writers won't mess this up, that title would be fulfilled...
* okay, i actually facepalmed on the Wolverine part... so you genuinely believed that Logan is the only freakin' character that can pull the trigger, which is hypocrisy if you remember Schism... Logan's gotten soft nowadays with his "children shoud not fight/kill" mentality... or, he's feeling the dose of his own medicine by preaching his mentality while he's doing the dirty work himself, and that's clear outright hypocrisy... in character? in his current stature, even Cyclops has the balls to do it, think about it... Scott is willing to take the risks nowadays, while Logan can't... Scott already has the burden of seeing his own wife (2 wives, to be exact) and son die in front of him... it's a painful experience, but Scott can take it (coldheartedly speaking)... but to say that Logan is the only choice? it's stupid...
* anyway, the whole AvX war is also stupid... they could've combined all of their plans and strategies without fighting each other... the writers only raised the character's ego-bars and let them get it all on...
Originally posted by peejayd
* you're clearly missing it, srank... the fact is, you cannot nullify the positive by creating a negative... and given the facts of how the history of the Phoenix was written, you cannot deny that the host [b]can control the PF... okay, the host went insane, well have you considered what went wrong? what triggered the insanity? the PF and the host cannot go insane on their own... you know the Dark Phoenix saga, right? did the PF went insane out of nowhere? or did something triggered for its insanity? do the math...* well, for starters, Hope is also not an avatar of the Phoenix... Cable stated that Hope is the Phoenix... just like Jean Grey... and if Hope wasn't such a brat, Rachel and even Emma could've molded her to be a good psychic (or host for the PF) in no time...
* get real? i was actually ranting a defense on what Cyclops' drive is... on why he's uber-confident about the PF's positive effects on mutant population... on why he's uber-confident that this time around, they'll "write a happy ending"... getting real is like you're actually getting out of the comics' universe... there's practically nothing real in comics... so a 14-year-old (or 16) controlling the PF is not unreal, srank... get back in the comic universe... oh, Hope's not just the Phoenix, she's also the Mutant Messiah... and if the writers won't mess this up, that title would be fulfilled...
* okay, i actually facepalmed on the Wolverine part... so you genuinely believed that Logan is the only freakin' character that can pull the trigger, which is hypocrisy if you remember Schism... Logan's gotten soft nowadays with his "children shoud not fight/kill" mentality... or, he's feeling the dose of his own medicine by preaching his mentality while he's doing the dirty work himself, and that's clear outright hypocrisy... in character? in his current stature, even Cyclops has the balls to do it, think about it... Scott is willing to take the risks nowadays, while Logan can't... Scott already has the burden of seeing his own wife (2 wives, to be exact) and son die in front of him... it's a painful experience, but Scott can take it (coldheartedly speaking)... but to say that Logan is the only choice? it's stupid...
* anyway, the whole AvX war is also stupid... they could've combined all of their plans and strategies without fighting each other... the writers only raised the character's ego-bars and let them get it all on... [/B]
When the positive is that maybe the Phoenix will usher in a new dawn of the mutant race, and the negative is that it will destroy all of existence, I don't really need to do anything to negate the positives because the negative already so complete dwarfs any positive effect.
Jean isn't the only Dark Phoenix, nor is the the Dark Phoenix Saga the only time that the Dark Phoenix persona had control over Jean. The Dark Phoenix is merely one side of the Phoenix Force that represents the inherent conflict created from the duality in being a cosmic force of both Destruction and Rebirth. It's not insane, it's merely a force of nature. The Dark Phoenix is a real concern for all of the Phoenix hosts... it's the reason why the Shi'ar have task forces dedicated to whipping out hosts and their entire extended family to prevent anyone who could possibly become the Phoenix.
Because Cable speaks with the same authority as an abstract cosmic being? facepalm
Cable said that Hope is the Phoenix, and she is, she is an Avatar of the Phoenix. Death stated that Jean Grey was the Phoenix and expressly mentioned that she not merely another host or avatar of the force. There is no equity or common ground between those two declarations. Outside of a potential plot shield being the alleged "Mutant Messiah" is really inconsequential to the characters involved in this event. It's not some concert fact or anything, it's just something the took to calling her because by happenstance she happened to be the first mutant born post M-Day and she can create activate new mutants. None of the characters in this event read press releases from Joe Q, so don't equate what you know and what has been said on the internet with what the actual characters know about Hope.
Clearly you have no concept of the motivations or personalities of these characters, nor do you seem to have any memory of X-Men history. Wolverine didn't get "soft", and boiling down Schism to "children should not fight/kill" mentality is an extreme over simplification of the real issue. Frankly it has more to do with an oversight in the leadership of the X-Men then it does with children fighting, and Schism is not the first time Wolverine has brought up the issue. The real issue is that Cyclops doesn't acknowledge that most of the students are not cut out for field duty. Wolverine has expressed his displeasure in having in having green mutants out in the field several times, and when other characters have tried to justify it by saying that the originally X-Men roster were all teenagers, he pointed out that they were all hand picked by Xavier for the express purpose of creating the X-Men... which is a far cry from the open door, all mutants are welcome to fight on the front lines police Cyclops has implemented. The fact is that many of the students, the vast majority of them in fact, are not cut out to be X-Men and instead of being a leader and giving Hope and the Five Lights an order Cyclops gave children the authority to make a decision that none of they were emotionally more mentally qualified to make... and then pretended like the decision mattered. The reality is that Wolverine likely wouldn't have a problem with Hope being in combat, he knows she was trained by Cable and is capable, it's the rest of the students he is concerned about, and know he is merely toeing a hardline to set an example, rather than have to justify exceptions to the rules. None of that has any real baring on the fact that Wolverine is a killer... and aside from a small handful of other characters he is the only person in this event that it would be in character for him to kill a child for the greater good.